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  1. #101
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    It's curious that people insist on the ".5" in the name as though 27" isn't good enough. 26" is good enough even though the real size there is 26.5". The fact remains that 650b is 25mm larger than 26. That's one inch. Hypocrisy goes all the way to the name.

  2. #102
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    ]QUOTE=craigsj;9348213]It's curious that people insist on the ".5" in the name as though 27" isn't good enough. 26" is good enough even though the real size there is 26.5". The fact remains that 650b is 25mm larger than 26. That's one inch. Hypocrisy goes all the way to the name.[/QUOTE]

    As usual, I have no f'ing clue what you are talking about.

    First, dictionary def of hypocrisy is:
    1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

    How does that even approach applying the idea expressed in this thread of using one consistent system of measurement forbmtn bike wheels. : OD with tire mounted &inflated, Expressed in inches, in use since day 1 of this sport.

    I'm thinking that this is a misuse of an English word excelled only by Alanis Morissette's mangling of "ironic "in 1995

    Second, I have two 26" wheels left in the quiver and they both measure almost exactly 26" I have four 27.5" wheels and they all measure 27.5" That is 1.5" of difference and despite that 29'er zealots tell us the difference is negligible according to their calculators it is very noticeable in the actual saddle in actual use on the trails.

    No 29'ers but someday there will be a rigid SS 29'er My inductive leap of faith is that the wheels will measure 29"OD .

    I know you are an engineer and I fear you are living up to stereotype, by making little to no sense with your prose. Worse than Jobst Brandt and that speaks volumes.

    Maybe try again; there must be an engineer-speak to English App availablevsomewhere.


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    Last edited by dwt; 05-25-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    It's curious that people insist on the ".5" in the name as though 27" isn't good enough. 26" is good enough even though the real size there is 26.5". The fact remains that 650b is 25mm larger than 26. That's one inch. Hypocrisy goes all the way to the name.
    And 29r is 33 mm larger than 650b. That is 1.3 inches. So we should call them 28.3"? And round down to 28" like we did with 26"?

    650b is in roughly in between. Naming makes sense. You reasoning does not.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    As usual, I have no f'ing clue what you are talking about.
    No surprise. I wonder how long you looked for a sufficiently obscure definition.

    Hypocrisy is applying difference standards for yourself than you would apply to others. In this case, truncating the fraction of an inch is OK for the smaller wheel size but not for 650B because of big wheel envy.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Second, I have two 26" wheels left in the quiver and they both measure almost exactly 26" I have four 27.5" wheels and they all measure 27.5" That is 1.5" of difference and despite that 29'er zealots tell us the difference is negligible according to their calculators it is very noticeable in the actual saddle in actual use on the trails.
    You do Kirk Pacenti proud. The difference in size between 650B and 26er is 25mm always. That is one inch. Anything else is just differences in tires, despite how hard you try to push this off on "29'er zealots". It's always someone else at fault with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I know you are an engineer and I fear you are living up to stereotype, by making little to no sense with your prose. Worse than Jobst Brandt and that speaks volumes.
    Denigrating knowledge with personal attacks. Another standard move for you.

    It doesn't take an engineer to subtract 559 from 584 and conclude that the wheel size is 1" different. It just takes someone who's self-worth isn't tied to the answer.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    And 29r is 33 mm larger than 650b. That is 1.3 inches. So we should call them 28.3"? And round down to 28" like we did with 26"?

    650b is in roughly in between. Naming makes sense. You reasoning does not.
    No, it is 38mm larger and that's 1.5 inches. Furthermore, it would not be added to the post-rounded 650B number and then rounded again. You've made two mistakes here in order to reach your invalid conclusion. 29ers are actually 29" nominally.

    27" is roughly between 26" and 29" so that naming would make just as much sense. I fail to follow your logic. There is no justification for calling 26.5" a "26er" and then insist 27.5" be called "27.5". If it's good for one, it's good for the other. Stop pretending 650B is 1.5" larger than 26". It's not.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    . Stop pretending 650B is 1.5" larger than 26". It's not.
    I agree with the Scott Marketing Manager that applying ISO standards typically used with road bike wheels to mtn bike wheels is inherently confusing. Since day 1,mtn bike wheels have been measured OD with tire installed in inches Do now there are 3 mtn wheel sizes 26", 27.5" and 29"
    Furthermore, it would not be added to the post-rounded 650B number and then rounded again. You've made two mistakes here in order to reach your invalid conclusion. 29ers are actually


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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    No, it is 38mm larger and that's 1.5 inches. Furthermore, it would not be added to the post-rounded 650B number and then rounded again. You've made two mistakes here in order to reach your invalid conclusion. 29ers are actually 29" nominally.

    27" is roughly between 26" and 29" so that naming would make just as much sense. I fail to follow your logic. There is no justification for calling 26.5" a "26er" and then insist 27.5" be called "27.5". If it's good for one, it's good for the other.

    What a load of baloney. Are you obsessive compulsive?

    You need a justification for a marketing term? Take a number and stand in line.

    27.5 is in between the established 26 and 29. Deal with it.

    650b tires outer diameter is 27.5". Almost exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    Stop pretending 650B is 1.5" larger than 26". It's not.
    Boo-hoo. Cry me a river.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I agree with the Scott Marketing Manager that applying ISO standards typically used with road bikevwheelsb to mtn bike wheels is inherently confusing. Since day 1,mtn bike wheels have been measured OD with tire installed in inches So now there are 3 mtn wheel sizes 26", 27.5" and 29". 650b is a red herring. Few have the faintest clue what it means. I admit it just leaves me scratching my head. I do know that the measurement 27.5" is consistent with the other two and is halfway in between.
    Comparing apples to apples. If you want to dazzle us with your vast knowledge and tie us in knots with apples to oranges measurements Go ahead. What are you accomplishing or trying to prove? If it is the ultimate superiority of the 29" wheel go to another forum or PM DC

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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    What a load of baloney. Are you obsessive compulsive?

    You need a justification for a marketing term? Take a number and stand in line.

    27.5 is in between the established 26 and 29. Deal with it.

    650b tires outer diameter is 27.5". Almost exactly.



    Boo-hoo. Cry me a river.
    And 26er have an outer diameter of 26.5". Almost exactly. Why don't you pitch a fit over that?

    You don't have to be obsessive compulsive to get simple arithmetic right. You just need no agenda, apparently.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    And 26er have an outer diameter of 26.5". Almost exactly. Why don't you pitch a fit over that?

    You don't have to be obsessive compulsive to get simple arithmetic right. You just need no agenda, apparently.
    You know the village idiot of MTBR? Davidcopperfield.

    You sound just like him.

    Why don't I pitch a fit? Because that is what you do. I do not.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    You know the village idiot of MTBR? Davidcopperfield.

    You sound just like him.

    Why don't I pitch a fit? Because that is what you do. I do not.
    Classic projection. You can't even subtract 584 from 622 properly yet you say I sound just like DC. It's amazing how the stupid call other people stupid.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    And 26er have an outer diameter of 26.5". Almost exactly. Why don't you pitch a fit over that?

    You don't have to be obsessive compulsive to get simple arithmetic right. You just need no agenda, apparently.
    FWIW, my 26er's wheels measure 26" exactly. Not a hair over nor under. Right at 26. They're the WTB 2.1" Prowler MX.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Wizard View Post
    FWIW, my 26er's wheels measure 26" exactly. Not a hair over nor under. Right at 26. They're the WTB 2.1" Prowler MX.
    Do not let facts get in the way of righteous rage.

    26" was named when most tires had been just that size.

    Most 650b tires will be 27.5" on the nose.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Wizard View Post
    FWIW, my 26er's wheels measure 26" exactly. Not a hair over nor under. Right at 26. They're the WTB 2.1" Prowler MX.
    That tire, if it existed in 650b, would measure 27" exactly. It cannot be otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe
    Do not let facts get in the way of righteous rage.

    26" was named when most tires had been just that size.

    Most 650b tires will be 27.5" on the nose.
    Indeed, do not let facts get in the way of righteous rage. Where do you get you facts on why 26ers where named what they were?

    Why change 650b's name and not 26"? How is one justified and not the other?

    No matter how you put it, it's a double standard, and it's specifically one that's motivated by dishonesty. 650b is 1 inch bigger than 26er and will never be anything but that, despite all the BS implied by pet names. The 650b name works just fine, it just doesn't allow people to pretend the wheel is half way between 26 and 29, which it is not.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    That tire, if it existed in 650b, would measure 27" exactly. It cannot be otherwise.


    Indeed, do not let facts get in the way of righteous rage. Where do you get you facts on why 26ers where named what they were?

    Why change 650b's name and not 26"? How is one justified and not the other?

    No matter how you put it, it's a double standard, and it's specifically one that's motivated by dishonesty. 650b is 1 inch bigger than 26er and will never be anything but that, despite all the BS implied by pet names. The 650b name works just fine, it just doesn't allow people to pretend the wheel is half way between 26 and 29, which it is not.
    Why don't you put down the crack pipe and come back to earth?

    You are a much more annoying troll than DC. DC has a "village idiot" quality
    that makes his bleating easier to take. We kind of feel sorry for him, and accept his quixotic anti 27.5" crusade as vaguely humorous.

    You OTOH have an arrogant self important tone that makes your posts much more obnoxious. You are by far the worse troll. Maybe someday the red chicklets will catch up.

    Bottom line is that both of you need much more real world experience actually riding and building bikes, and way less calculator time.


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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    It's curious that people insist on the ".5" in the name as though 27" isn't good enough. 26" is good enough even though the real size there is 26.5". The fact remains that 650b is 25mm larger than 26. That's one inch. Hypocrisy goes all the way to the name.
    Because 27" is a road size that's been around for decades, and it uses a 630BCD. So you REALLY want to call 584BCD mountain tires 27"??

    Customer: Hey.. I need some 27" tires.
    Shop: Road bike 27" or mountain bike 27"?
    Customer: Well I just ride on the road, so road bike I guess.
    Shop: Great. Here are you 27x1-1/4 tires!
    Customer: Awesome
    <1 hour later>
    Customer: That stupid shop! These tires don't fit my bike!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobaar View Post
    Because 27" is a road size that's been around for decades, and it uses a 630BCD. So you REALLY want to call 584BCD mountain tires 27"??

    Customer: Hey.. I need some 27" tires.
    Shop: Road bike 27" or mountain bike 27"?
    Customer: Well I just ride on the road, so road bike I guess.
    Shop: Great. Here are you 27x1-1/4 tires!
    Customer: Awesome
    <1 hour later>
    Customer: That stupid shop! These tires don't fit my bike!
    Exactly! And why 650b make so much more sense
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  18. #118
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    same number of syllables as 29er as well
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Why don't you put down the crack pipe and come back to earth?

    You are a much more annoying troll than DC. DC has a "village idiot" quality
    that makes his bleating easier to take. We kind of feel sorry for him, and accept his quixotic anti 27.5" crusade as vaguely humorous.

    You OTOH have an arrogant self important tone that makes your posts much more obnoxious. You are by far the worse troll. Maybe someday the red chicklets will catch up.

    Bottom line is that both of you need much more real world experience actually riding and building bikes, and way less calculator time.
    It comes as no surprise that you don't know what a troll is either. It appears your criticism of me is that I post things that you don't like and I'm right about them. Well done.

    I will point out that I have not criticized 650b in any way in this thread, just the motivations of people who advocate for misleading names. The more you post on this, the stronger my point becomes. You would think that honesty would be virtue yet it makes you so angry, angry enough to go off immediately into personal attacks. No great surprise.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobaar View Post
    Because 27" is a road size that's been around for decades, and it uses a 630BCD. So you REALLY want to call 584BCD mountain tires 27"??

    Customer: Hey.. I need some 27" tires.
    Shop: Road bike 27" or mountain bike 27"?
    Customer: Well I just ride on the road, so road bike I guess.
    Shop: Great. Here are you 27x1-1/4 tires!
    Customer: Awesome
    <1 hour later>
    Customer: That stupid shop! These tires don't fit my bike!
    That hasn't stopped other formats, most notably 650b itself which shares its name with others using variation letters. You realize that the "650" part is the metric equivalent of 26" or 27" or 29", right? There's also 406 and 451 which are both known as 20" formats. The industry is filled with such examples, the most notable of all being 700c which, besides being known as 29", shares its 700 designation with 4 other 700 formats, ironically none if which is 584 which is known as a 650 format despite being closer to 700mm in MTB form than any 700 format! No, the only logical answer is to use the rim sizes themselves. It is unambiguous. I would be most happy with MTB using 3 standards---559, 584, and 622---and that would have the pleasant side effect of instantly knowing the real differences. 650b advocates wouldn't like that, though, as it would rain on their parade. The emperor would have no clothes then.

    So no, I don't really want to call 650b 27", I want to call it 650b or 584. 27" or 27er is a horrible name, but so is 27.5 because it has too many syllables. The only motivation for the 27.5 name is to suggest to the naive that it is half way between 26 and 29 when it is not. It is marketing lie, nothing more. Why marketers think that we need imperial names for wheel sizes is beyond me.

  21. #121
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    You know what's great about the internet? Two idiots can argue back and forth and both prove themselves to be complete losers for everyone to see. Who cares what it's called dbags.
    Last edited by sumgai; 05-26-2012 at 09:14 AM.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    It comes as no surprise that you don't know what a troll is either. It appears your criticism of me is that I post things that you don't like and I'm right about them. Well done.

    I will point out that I have not criticized 650b in any way in this thread, just the motivations of people who advocate for misleading names. The more you post on this, the stronger my point becomes. You would think that honesty would be virtue yet it makes you so angry, angry enough to go off immediately into personal attacks. No great surprise.
    Look, Craig. Except for DC, nobody f'ing agrees with anything you say about wheel size. Certainly not any company in the mtn bike industry which now sells or next year will sell 27.5" bikes. Not Intense, not Scott - which both advocate 27.5" over 650b (why? To mislead the public ? To personally piss off Craigsj makes more sense)

    And of course you are a troll, because you come out of the comfort zone of your 29'er forum and post provocative crap in the 650b forum for the sole reason of getting into arguments with people. Of course there also your insufferable "I'm smarter than everybody"meme. Which is why I will never pass up an opportunity to trash you personally. Until you get over yourself. Might be a long f'ing wait. Get married, your wife will or should beat the "it's all about me" out of you. Or you will never get laid. Maybe that's your problem now?
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by sumgai View Post
    You know what's great about the internet? Two idiots can argue back and forth and both prove themselves to be complete losers for everyone to see. Who cares what it's called dbags.
    The other good thing is that even worse losers lurking will read every post then try to show how superior they are by being "above it all". Who cares what you think, dbag?
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    So no, I don't really want to call 650b 27", I want to call it 650b or 584. 27" or 27er is a horrible name, but so is 27.5 because it has too many syllables. The only motivation for the 27.5 name is to suggest to the naive that it is half way between 26 and 29 when it is not. It is marketing lie, nothing more. Why marketers think that we need imperial names for wheel sizes is beyond me.
    You are a DC sockpuppet. Congratulations. Yes, the whole industry is against you. They intent to call a medium sized wheel in between two existing ones named "26' and "29", with 27.5" outside diameter a "27.5" size. Oh, the humanity.

    But do not worry. You know the truth. You will wait for your 32" with dropped bars.

    I will not repeat what dwt said.
    Last edited by Axe; 05-26-2012 at 11:44 AM.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    And of course you are a troll, because you come out of the comfort zone of your 29'er forum and post provocative crap in the 650b forum for the sole reason of getting into arguments with people. Of course there also your insufferable "I'm smarter than everybody"meme. Which is why I will never pass up an opportunity to trash you personally. Until you get over yourself. Might be a long f'ing wait. Get married, your wife will or should beat the "it's all about me" out of you. Or you will never get laid. Maybe that's your problem now?
    Pulling out all the low-brow personal insults this time, eh? It's really sad the class of intellect found in the 650b world.

    I'm not smarter than everyone, but I'm clearly smarter than you.

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