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  1. #1
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    Bronson vs Trance 27.5

    Finally starting to look at a new bike as I want more travel as I get better. Coming from a 650b Blur LT aluminum. Looking at probly getting one of these two frames and building around it. I will be limited to aluminum most likely. The Bronson Carbon looks awesome, but too much price tag right now. So I obviously like SC and am used to the VPP on my blur, so I'm guessing the Bronson suspension will ride similar. Never been on a Giant but have heard great things.. I am unable to test ride either bike because dealers are not stocking them here (atleast not now). My concerns deciding between them is,

    1: VPP vs Maestro. I ride out of the saddle a lot, pretty aggressive enduro trails on rough terrain (Southern Utah).

    2: Weight difference between the two frames. I've read that Giant aluminum is the best in the business and would be light than the SC. I do love the SC linkages though.. they're strong and have served me well.

    Cheers folks!

  2. #2
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Two completely different bikes. Gonna be tough, it will depend on what your riding style is.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Two completely different bikes. Gonna be tough, it will depend on what your riding style is.
    How so? I thought we're about as similar as it gets.. Very close geometryto one another. The Bronson just has a touch more rear travel. I ride mostly "trail." Not racing around, just pedaling around to shred the downhills. Chunky downhills with a lot of rock. Smaller jumps and drops.
    Thanks!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by thmslilly View Post
    ,

    1: VPP vs Maestro. I ride out of the saddle a lot, pretty aggressive enduro trails on rough terrain (Southern Utah).

    2: Weight difference between the two frames. I've read that Giant aluminum is the best in the business and would be light than the SC. I do love the SC linkages though.. they're strong and have served me well.

    Cheers folks!
    Do you mean standing cranking out of the saddle or standing descending?
    They should both serve you well in both counts. They will both stiffen up under power and have similar travel for the descents. [On paper the Bronson only has 145mm travel]
    Try and ride any Giant of around simialr travel if you can The maestro is pretty similar in the 26" Tx , Reign and the 27.5 Tx. Shock tune does however make a big difference on the Maestro and Giant has been tuning more for descending and have been putting out a really soft tune on recent bikes so be prepared to use Trail or platform setting if you want a solid climbing platform.They still stiffen up well when accelerating but are not exceptional smooth terrain climbers like they used to be. The maestro tends to be active and stiffen up under power the Bronson VPP looks pretty linear in comparison but shock tune can even that up. My experience with bikes with more linear suspension like the Bronson they tend to hold up in their travel mid stroke with the effect of making them feel like they have less travel. You can however improve that with more air vol spacers and then letting the shock air pressure down a smidge. Moderately progressive suspension like the Tx 27.5 can feel like it has more travel. Shock tune or swapping out shocks can make a vast difference so which ever one you get I'm sure you will be able to tweak to your satisfaction.

    Giant frames are usually very light and a metal manipulation art form.However lighter frames can tend to flex a bit if pushed hard in to corners. If your not one that's ever noticed that on any bike then it won't be a concern. Each generation frame and fork gets stiffer and lighter and a good stiff fork is probably more important these days.Stiffening up your stem bar combo can also make a huge difference.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Do you mean standing cranking out of the saddle or standing descending?
    They should both serve you well in both counts. They will both stiffen up under power and have similar travel for the descents. [On paper the Bronson only has 145mm travel]
    Try and ride any Giant of around simialr travel if you can The maestro is pretty similar in the 26" Tx , Reign and the 27.5 Tx. Shock tune does however make a big difference on the Maestro and Giant has been tuning more for descending and have been putting out a really soft tune on recent bikes so be prepared to use Trail or platform setting if you want a solid climbing platform.They still stiffen up well when accelerating but are not exceptional smooth terrain climbers like they used to be. The maestro tends to be active and stiffen up under power the Bronson VPP looks pretty linear in comparison but shock tune can even that up. My experience with bikes with more linear suspension like the Bronson they tend to hold up in their travel mid stroke with the effect of making them feel like they have less travel. You can however improve that with more air vol spacers and then letting the shock air pressure down a smidge. Moderately progressive suspension like the Tx 27.5 can feel like it has more travel. Shock tune or swapping out shocks can make a vast difference so which ever one you get I'm sure you will be able to tweak to your satisfaction.

    Giant frames are usually very light and a metal manipulation art form.However lighter frames can tend to flex a bit if pushed hard in to corners. If your not one that's ever noticed that on any bike then it won't be a concern. Each generation frame and fork gets stiffer and lighter and a good stiff fork is probably more important these days.Stiffening up your stem bar combo can also make a huge difference.
    Awesome reply! Lots of good advice. I'll have to hop on a Giant when possible and see how it feels on some dirt. Responding to you initial question, I stand out of the saddle climbing quite often. Lots of technical sections that are not sit and spin type ascents. I'm also out of the saddle entirely when descending. I tend to sprint a lot on descents. It sounds like both bikes would be good fits.. I'd like to finish with a trail bike around 28-29lbs when complete. Hopefully the Bronson isn't to burly to get to that. Just have to see what price I can get on them I guess . Thanks again! Very helpful reply.

  6. #6
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    I vote Bronson for sure. The Giants seem more xc'ish. They seemed under spec'd fork wise but a good value for your money. The Bronson is a better looking bike and I like the SC ride. I've owned a few and loved them all. I would error on burlier too if you are already looking for more travel. May as well future proof it a bit.

  7. #7
    JCL
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    I would get a Devinci Troy but out of those two the Bronson has more anti-squat which sounds like what you want.

  8. #8
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    The TX actaully has much more antisquat up to about 45mm of travel then drops away. The Bronson holds it's antisquat further into it's travel so may be better cranking out of the saddle if your wallowing. If your smooth and have your weight forward then the suspension stays extended and the greater antisquat comes in handy. Have to ride them both I guess. Either way the Bronson will ride much closer to the OP Blur Lt. It they want more of the same then the Bronson is the ticket. If they want to try something different then the TX, Burner, Sight and Spitfire use a similar style, high intial antisquat and leverage ratio, more active and progressive suspension design.

  9. #9
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    I have not ridden a trance, but have spent some time on a reign. Get the Bronson. I built up an aluminum bronson a little bit ago and I've tested it at TWE and rock stacker, among other tech trails in Moab to buff smooth single track. Such an amazing bike! I like it better than the reign both climbing and descending.
    Check out my riding blog:

    http://onetrailatatime.blogspot.com

  10. #10
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    I've ridden the trance, and I would have to say, even if you're going to get a frame and build it up, so you could say same components on each frame and kill that argument, so it's down to the frames, the Giant is going to pedal well, but it's not going to pedal the same as the Bronson. I think you'll ultimately be happier with the bronson.

  11. #11
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    gvs... where are you coming up with that info? The Bronson has a straight rate for maybe the first 2/3 of travel then ramps up very progressive the last 3rd unlike some previous VPP designs. It's one of the better offerings for bigger hits and jumps because of the end of stroke progressiveness.
    I'll also point out that most of the bobbing/pedal feedback with VPP designs occurs in the small ring. That doesn't come into play nearly as much if you go with a single ring setup.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN

    PS - Get the Bronson for stand up aggro riding.
    Last edited by Gman086; 10-28-2013 at 09:03 PM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    gvs... where are you coming up with that info? The Bronson has a straight rate for maybe the first 2/3 of travel then ramps up very progressive the last 3rd unlike SC's previous VPP designs. It's one of the better offerings for bigger hits and jumps because of the end of stroke progressiveness.
    I'll also point out that most of the bobbing/pedal feedback with VPP designs occurs in the small ring. That doesn't come into play nearly as much if you go with a single ring setup.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN

    PS - Get the Bronson for stand up aggro riding.
    I believe GVS_NZ is talking about anti-squat and you are talking about leverage ratios. Those two things aren't the same. Based on the anti-squat charts I've seen he is correct.

    The leverage ratio of the Bronson varies from an initial ~2.45 to 2.65 then back down to 2.45 again towards the end of stroke with little up tick towards bottom out. This range and little flick at the end is actually quite small. There are lots of bikes out there with ranges of ~1. The nomad for instance starts at 2.5, rises to 2.75 around 25% travel and then calls all the way to 1.9 (max change 2.7-1.9=.8), this is a reasonable ramp up imo. The Bronson however is basically flat throughout travel, this leaves all the bottom out control work to the shock, probably makes shock tuning a bit harder.

    Comparatively the Trance has a steadily falling 3.05-2.65 leverage ratio. Not a particularly big change and I'd like to see more but the leverage ratio change throughout the stroke is still double the Bronson's.

    I haven't ridden either bike and am not really endorsing either bike, though I am leaning more towards a Trance for myself.

  13. #13
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    Where did you get those leverage ratios?
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    Where did you get those leverage ratios?
    Most likely here on Antonio Osuna's suspension blog. It's all here, just start digging.

    For reference the Bronson is included on this first page in comparison to the new Yeti 575 650B bike.

    Google Translate
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  15. #15
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    Reminds me of the German tires data thread with zero basis in reality outside of the lab with their "drum roller" resistance test. I'll believe the experts at SC and X-Fusion over some internet drivel, sorry.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  16. #16
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    Draw the frame out in Linkage yourself and show us it's wrong. Otherwise that is the best data out there. Do you have any published/online data from SC that shows a different leverage ratio?

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