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  1. #1
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    Battle of 2 yet to be released 650beasts!

    One of these will soon be mine. Sexier? Better design? Decisions decisions....Watch the first 2 minutes of each vid and give your thoughts as this is becoming a tough choice. Geo #s are real close! Norco Range carbon, 160mm. Knolly Warden, 150mm...

  2. #2
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    Could only upload one video per post, heres the Warden.

  3. #3
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    Sorry, I donīt see anything that these two, although being really good Bikes, could do any better than your Rune, except saving some Weight.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Sorry, I donīt see anything that these two, although being really good Bikes, could do any better than your Rune, except saving some Weight.
    Both have longer top tubes which is really about important to me to avoid going to an XL, different suspension designs and as you mentioned they are both lighter. I also have the opportunity to switch frames now and I will not in the next few years. Enough reasons?

  5. #5
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    Careful, you'll bring the masses of Pinkbike over here to tell you the same thing twice.

    Let me ask you this: would you compromise the climbing abilities of your Rune to gain better "big-hit" performance?

    The tough part about your rush to replace the Rune is that neither the Warden nor the Range Carbon have released weights yet. Weights for the Warden have been estimate by myself and others, but that doesn't guarantee the thing will weigh 6.5lbs with shock. It may end up being 7+.

    The Range Carbon could shed as much as %25 off the frame weight. Lets say the Alloy version weighs 8lbs. That'd make it around 6.5lbs. That's just a guess though, who knows what the production frame weight.
    ArcGIS mapping pro, offering trail design and mapping support to non-profit organizations across Pennsylvania.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    Both have longer top tubes which is really about important to me to avoid going to an XL, different suspension designs and as you mentioned they are both lighter. I also have the opportunity to switch frames now and I will not in the next few years. Enough reasons?
    It's not just about TT, I seen bikes with an inch longer TT and still have the same reach as my current bike.
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass
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  7. #7
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    This is effective top tube lengths. As for weight, the Warden is somewhere in between the Endorphin and Chilcotin which is about a full pound lighter than the Rune, the Range in the video is listed at 27 and a half pounds, My Rune is just under 31. With my build I would be looking at 28 and a half pounds.

    Bottom line is I'm getting a new bike, let's forget I have the rune and comment on the bikes above!

  8. #8
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    All things being equal I'd rather support Knolly.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    As for weight, the Warden is somewhere in between the Endorphin and Chilcotin which is about a full pound lighter than the Rune
    Is this statement saying you think the Chili is a pound lighter than the Rune and therefore the Warden, if a pound lighter than the Chili would be 2lbs lighter than the Rune?
    ArcGIS mapping pro, offering trail design and mapping support to non-profit organizations across Pennsylvania.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Is this statement saying you think the Chili is a pound lighter than the Rune and therefore the Warden, if a pound lighter than the Chili would be 2lbs lighter than the Rune?
    Wrench Science has the Warden listed at 6.76lbs. I'm not clear on what size that is, but it gets you into the ballpark.

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  11. #11
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    Saying the Warden will be about a pound lighter and the Range would be about a .1.5lbs lighter. Nothing anyone says will convince me to keep the Rune, I will go into the next few years with the bike "I" want!

  12. #12
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    Carbine 275 is listed at 5.50lbs.

    Devinci Troy at 6.0lbs.

    Mojo HDR at 6lbs

    Rune V2es have been weighed at 7.9lbs with shock.

    I dunno, the Warden is going to be pricey for it's relative weight.
    ArcGIS mapping pro, offering trail design and mapping support to non-profit organizations across Pennsylvania.

  13. #13
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    All short top tubes & suspension designs I don't care for. Again, looking for feedback on the 2 "I" like...

    The Wardens weight is pretty impressive for a Knolly actually.

  14. #14
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    Socal,

    I gave you some weights to compare "weight vs price" ratio.

    I don't think California is the best place to be riding an active suspension design like the Knolly. It's going to suck on those long smooth climbs. Granted a pedaling platform like the CCBA-CS will help tremendously, but the same shock on the Range would be just as awesome if not better, and complimented by a lower frame weight.

    If you haven't noticed on this forum and PinkBike I'm pretty supportive of designs that incorporate lots of anti-squat or at least remain somewhat flat above 100%.

    This is mostly because I don't have the money to purchase a lightweight frame AND get a high-tech shock like the CCBA-CS, Float-X or Monarch Plus.

    I want the suspension design to do the work for me, ala DW-Link.

    Now, if you've got a trail bike or a hard-tail and you hit lots of parks, the Knolly may make more sense.
    ArcGIS mapping pro, offering trail design and mapping support to non-profit organizations across Pennsylvania.

  15. #15
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    Norco Range in carbon looks great. I got to try that one out. I don't get the alloy chainstay on this at all! Seems ridiculous to me to go with that at that price point with all the other features on this build.

  16. #16
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    Fair enough Pheller but I love a more active suspension, did not care for the lazier VPP carbon Nomad I had for comparison. Knolly pedal better than most people think, I would still have the delirium I had if it weren't for the shorter top tube. With Big Bear opened up several months out of the year, I will be up there many times.

  17. #17
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    Socal, I will say this:

    The downside to lots of anti-squat is higher pedal kickback at 0mm. Mondraker has been able to remove pedal kickback while still having crazy high anti-squat, the Norco has more than the Banshee.

    You may prefer the Warden with a good pedal platform.
    ArcGIS mapping pro, offering trail design and mapping support to non-profit organizations across Pennsylvania.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    You may prefer the Warden with an Avalanche rear shock.
    Fixed it for you
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrniceguy42 View Post
    Fixed it for you
    Funny how true it is. My Chili with Avy Woodie pedals better than my Endo with CTD in trail mode.

    Sounds to me like SocalMX wants a bike with suspension that actually works. In that case, why would you inhibit that magic with shock platform?
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Funny how true it is. My Chili with Avy Woodie pedals better than my Endo with CTD in trail mode.

    Sounds to me like SocalMX wants a bike with suspension that actually works. In that case, why would you inhibit that magic with shock platform?
    This. While I havent ridden a warden, I will try to use my chilcotin to describe how I imagine the warden will be. Take this with a grain of salt.

    It wont be the lightest, most efficient, (insert other fancy marketing term here) bike on the market. If your trail consists of buff single track and fire roads, yeah, you may want to look elsewhere, but if there is any hint of techy uphill or burly downhill, then I think the warden will shine for you. I prefer the "active" feel, regardless of the trail. I will gladly lug my "heavy, active" chili around for one reason, once pointed down, there is no other bike I would want to be on. 4x4 + AVY is unbeatable IMO.

    My vote is Warden but the Norco looks very cool and I wouldn't mind a Rune either. Yea, I'm not much help...haha. I would have trouble sleeping at night if I was getting a Warden and I had that derby wheelset. I would give a nut for some derby rims in 26", just so I dont have to ever sell my chili. Haha. Good luck on your decision.
    2012 Knolly Chilcotin
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  21. #21
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    Thanks for the info guys. As for shocks, I have heard great things on the Avy stuff, mainly on the Knolly forums but must say I'm getting on nicely with the new Float-X. Light years better than standard CTD, valving is spot on and it has a coil like bottomless feel. I'm 6-2 220 geared and sure I could lose some bike weight but have no problems pushing a 32lb bike around. The Derbys, its like cheating it ain't even funny.

  22. #22
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    Fwiw I found my medium chilcotin to feel smaller than the ETT suggested. I also couldn't figure out how they got the measurement to 23.5 ETT inches when going from the middle of the head tube to the middle of the seat post horizontally. My point is check the reach numbers too and try and sit on one prior. Unfortunately the #s are different on the warden than the chilcotin and endorphin so you can't try them for size. Love the 4x4 suspension. I had dbair on mine.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrniceguy42 View Post
    This. While I havent ridden a warden, I will try to use my chilcotin to describe how I imagine the warden will be. Take this with a grain of salt.

    It wont be the lightest, most efficient, (insert other fancy marketing term here) bike on the market. If your trail consists of buff single track and fire roads, yeah, you may want to look elsewhere, but if there is any hint of techy uphill or burly downhill, then I think the warden will shine for you. I prefer the "active" feel, regardless of the trail. I will gladly lug my "heavy, active" chili around for one reason, once pointed down, there is no other bike I would want to be on. 4x4 + AVY is unbeatable IMO.

    My vote is Warden but the Norco looks very cool and I wouldn't mind a Rune either. Yea, I'm not much help...haha. I would have trouble sleeping at night if I was getting a Warden and I had that derby wheelset. I would give a nut for some derby rims in 26", just so I dont have to ever sell my chili. Haha. Good luck on your decision.
    Exactly. I must admit, I am looking hard at the Warden, but the Chili is so damn good I'm not sure I can part. The bike is dialed, is a tad heavy at 34lbs, but makes a killer monster truck when mashing through the chunder. I would lose a bit with the Warden with its slightly smaller tubing. I find the extra weight of the chili really helps when ripping downhill or climbing up. Besides, a Warden with an air shock would be a disgrace after the Chili with an Avy.

    Glad you like your bike as much as I do, sounds like we like the same type of terrain, and certainly have the same thought process when it comes to bikes.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    Thanks for the info guys. As for shocks, I have heard great things on the Avy stuff, mainly on the Knolly forums but must say I'm getting on nicely with the new Float-X. Light years better than standard CTD, valving is spot on and it has a coil like bottomless feel. I'm 6-2 220 geared and sure I could lose some bike weight but have no problems pushing a 32lb bike around. The Derbys, its like cheating it ain't even funny.
    No doubt. A light Warden would be a trail ripper. I would contact Knolly about the Float X though, I have heard there may be clearance issues with the 3D rockers. Hopefully it works out for you because you can have the best air shock on the market.

    Look here...really, look here....Float X High/Low SSD Kit
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    No doubt. A light Warden would be a trail ripper. I would contact Knolly about the Float X though, I have heard there may be clearance issues with the 3D rockers. Hopefully it works out for you because you can have the best air shock on the market.

    Look here...really, look here....Float X High/Low SSD Kit
    Wholly chit man, thanks for that link!

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