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  1. #1
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Good job! 650B Velocity Blunt Rims.

    I've been testing these new Velocity Blunt rims on my Ibis Mojo for a while, to see whether Velocity actually fixed their earlier problems with undersized rims or not.
    The original rims which I reviewed for Mountain Bike Australia were a really loose fit using Pacenti Neo Moto tires. I actually rolled the tires right off the rim on the trail, resulting in a otb crash. I also had problems with the tires blowing off the rims as I inflated them.
    As a follow-up to this test, Stu at Definitive sent me a new set of Velocity rims and tires to test when he heard that I was going to run the Ibis Mojo as a 650B setup.
    When I got the new rims I had them laced up and then tried the fit of the Neo Moto's to see how they felt on the new rims. They were still a little loose for just Stans yellow tape tubeless setup, so I decided to run them as ghetto tubeless, as the 26" rim strip would help to take up some of the slack and hopefully prevent a similar rolling off the rim experience like I had with the original.

    I used one wrap of cloth rim tape, then a wrap of the Stans wide yellow tape over the top of the cloth tape. I cut a 26" tube open, washed it to get rid of the powder, then fitted it over the Stans tape. Using plenty of soapy suds, I fitted the Neo Moto onto the rim and gave it two scoops of my home brew sealant [2 parts Stans to one part Slime with a dash of glitter] and hit it with the air. A couple of tries and it caught and up she went to 40psi. The usual shaking and sealing as per the Stans website recommendation saw only minor leaks from the beads. No problemo.

    I've been really trying to get the Neo Moto and the Quasi Moto to roll off the Velocity Blunt rims but they are solidly engaged. I have had no burps or any kinds of problems with these new rims and tires at all. I regularly give them hell on the downhills over rocks and ledges and drops but they continue to hang in there. I recently jumped the bike over a 24" high log at fairly high speed and clipped the rear wheel on the top of the log as I went over it. This resulted in a very hard front wheel landing right onto a 1" thick branch. I was running a fairly low 20psi in the front tire, and it almost completely flattened to the rim on impact, with a very sickening squelching sound. The tire rolled sideways as the limb rolled out from under the tire...I thought it would pop or burp, but nope, I just kept right on going.
    It seems to me that Velocity rims are fine now with ghetto tubeless setups. The earlier ones were way too small, but these new editions are very good.
    Mind you, I still won't run them just with the Stans yellow tape, as I think that they wouldn't hold well enough in that format, but as a ghetto tubeless setup, they are great. If you look closely at the pics, you can see the edge of the trimmed inner tube sticking out from the side of the tires. This is the "trick" with these rims, imo.

    Thanks to Stu at Definitive for the rims and tires.


    Rainman.
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    Last edited by Rainman; 12-03-2008 at 10:40 PM.
    It is inevitable ...

  2. #2
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    This thread would be much better WITH pics.

    I've also gotta ask - do you run tubeless just to run lower PSI? Because your set up sounds like it would actually weigh more than just throwing a tube in there right?

    I mean rim tape plus tube vs. rim tape, yellow tape, cut up tube, plus stans. The rim tape plus tube would be lighter no?

  3. #3
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
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    blah blah blah...who gives an "F" about your opinion. I for one will wait for Soupboy's rendering of the Blunts

  4. #4
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Nope...I run tubeless because I hate punctures!

    Also, I like running low pressures...

    With the wrap of rim tape and the wrap of Stans yellow tape, there isn't much of a weight penalty, and most of the 26" tube gets trimmed off after you are sealed up. Really, it makes for a neat setup that is pretty bombproof.



    R.


    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    This thread would be much better WITH pics.

    I've also gotta ask - do you run tubeless just to run lower PSI? Because your set up sounds like it would actually weigh more than just throwing a tube in there right?

    I mean rim tape plus tube vs. rim tape, yellow tape, cut up tube, plus stans. The rim tape plus tube would be lighter no?
    It is inevitable ...

  5. #5
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Hey Fo, good idea. Soup is the master of Bluntness...


    R.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    blah blah blah...who gives an "F" about your opinion. I for one will wait for Soupboy's rendering of the Blunts
    It is inevitable ...

  6. #6
    mtbr member
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    This thread would still be more betterer with photos! C'mon Rainman hit us with some pics my man!!!

  7. #7
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Pics up.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  8. #8
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    Mine are a tight fit but its almost worth the cost of the new Blunts to to get the 4 feet of red and white logo off my wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Pics up.


    R.

  9. #9
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    what fork is that in the pics?

    Rainman -

    what fork are you running w/ the 650B front?
    Is it a Minute?
    I was going to pick one up, but I've received conflicting info on whether it fits.


    I am headed to the LBS to order some 24" presta tubes to ghetto convert my Velocity Synergy (I was a road racer...schraders are for cars ). The fit was fine w/ a Neo & tube, so I think it will work.

    Why did you need an extra layer of tape over the velox clothe?

    RR

  10. #10
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    When did Velocity go w/ the new stickers ? I am getting a Blunt that is supposed to be a newer version but it still has the large stickers ???

  11. #11
    www.derbyrims.com
    Reputation: derby's Avatar
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    Blunts get a double thumbs up from me too

    I've got a similar setup: Cloth rim tape covered by wide strapping tape, covered by Stan's “Freeride” rimstrips, 3 ounces Stans sealant, and Neo-Motos. Bike is an Ibis Mojo.

    I had an undersized Blunt rim on my front only at first nearly a year ago and while using an inner tube (not tubeless) a Neo-moto blew off the rim using about 33 psi while riding a rocky trail after about 20 miles of similar trail.

    Velocity USA sent a new corrected sized rim which measured 2mm larger in diameter. After about 3 months of use with no problems going tubeless I bought another Blunt for the rear wheel. And I've been running tubeless with nearly perfect performance, never using more than 31 psi. It would probably handle a few more psi, but I don’t need or like such hard tires.

    I did get a front wheel burp once running a few pounds too little pressure in the front wheel, when I came to a sudden stop on a steep downhill turning the wheel sideways as I stopped on a large sharp rock. With the wheel turned sharp sideways across my forward momentum, the rim wallowed and rolled sideways and let out nearly half the air. My fault, for running too low pressure in the front for the extremely rough all rock condition, probably less than 25 psi.

    Otherwise riding on some of the roughest trails around the western states, with speed and hard braking and up to 4 foot jumps I've had no problems with the Blunts since the rim size correction last April.


  12. #12
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
    Reputation: Kirk Pacenti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen
    When did Velocity go w/ the new stickers ? I am getting a Blunt that is supposed to be a newer version but it still has the large stickers ???

    Iirc, the large stickers are for the US market. The small stickers are for the Aussie market... but that may be changing...

    Cheers,

    KP
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    Pacenti Cycle Design

  13. #13
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Questions:

    Answers: The fork is a Manitou Nixon Elite TPC+ 145mm which I picked up cheap from the Jenson USA sale. It works very well, and will accept the Neo Moto 650B front wheel.

    The Velocity Blunt rim, whilst being larger in diameter than the original one they produced, is still a slightly loose fit for the tires, so you need to use a wrap of cloth rim tape then a wrap of Stans yellow tape [wide] to bring the rim diameter up to a better size for a tighter fit ... then place the 26" tube over the top of that.

    The wrap of cloth tape is for bulk, the Stans tape for sealing purposes, and the tube locks the tire into the bead hook properly so it doesn't move.

    Two scoops of home brew sealant and everything is sweet...




    Rainman.






    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie
    Rainman -

    what fork are you running w/ the 650B front?
    Is it a Minute?
    I was going to pick one up, but I've received conflicting info on whether it fits.


    I am headed to the LBS to order some 24" presta tubes to ghetto convert my Velocity Synergy (I was a road racer...schraders are for cars ). The fit was fine w/ a Neo & tube, so I think it will work.

    Why did you need an extra layer of tape over the velox clothe?

    RR
    Last edited by Rainman; 12-04-2008 at 06:46 PM.
    It is inevitable ...

  14. #14
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Grab your GF's hair dryer, warm the stickers up with the warm air, then peel 'em right off...



    R.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Lee
    Mine are a tight fit but its almost worth the cost of the new Blunts to to get the 4 feet of red and white logo off my wheels
    It is inevitable ...

  15. #15
    Eating Hot Pockets
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    Iirc, the large stickers are for the US market. The small stickers are for the Aussie market... but that may be changing...

    Cheers,

    KP
    it HAS changed.
    in addition to picking up a set of Sun Equalizers, i snagged a set of Blunts from my LBS via BTI and they're the updated, less gaudy decals

  16. #16
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    Derby / Rainman

    Received me Blunts today

    Problem is I can't get them inflated. Using Using Slime 26 inch tubes and one wrap of no tube yellow rim strip tape. Trying to hand pump, air is leaking everywhere!!

    Do I need compressed air to get the beads seated?

    Have I missed a step in the ghetto tubless process?

    Please help, I deperately want to get out on the trail with my Mojo !!

    Mario

  17. #17
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by mario_a
    Received me Blunts today

    Problem is I can't get them inflated. Using Using Slime 26 inch tubes and one wrap of no tube yellow rim strip tape. Trying to hand pump, air is leaking everywhere!!

    Do I need compressed air to get the beads seated?

    Have I missed a step in the ghetto tubless process?

    Please help, I deperately want to get out on the trail with my Mojo !!

    Mario
    It took a few tires before I learned the process well enough to become pretty easy using pressurized air. Slightly used tires are much easier to mount up tubeless.

    I've never been able to hand pump mount Stan's converted tires. I got an 11 gallon air tank I fill up to about 65 psi at a local gas station, and it's good to set the bead for about 4 to 6 tires if there aren't bead sealing problems before refilling. If the pressure goes below 40psi it's not enough. Someday I'll buy a cheap compressor to air my tank up at home.

    The thicker Stan's rubber rim-strip has made it easier for me to get a bead to seat than when I first did it before rimstrips were available. I've never done ghetto before, but I may in the future because I think ghetto tubeless may produce the best seal with the least burping issues once aired up, due to the more glue like seal between the rubber to rubber contact rather than the seal pealing away from metal more easily under stress.

    Filling the rim channel center with more wraps of regular rim tape before putting on a rimstrip or split tube (ghetto style) helps airing up to mount the bead. Done just right with a tight rimstrip/ghetto tube in the rim channel has enabled some others to set the bead with a hand pump. I hope to refine my rim strip preparation technique to hand pump mount someday.

    Also first mounting the tire overnight with a tube helps on troublesome tires, it stretches and straightens out the bead to mount easier. And be sure your rim edge facing the tire is not bent or damaged at all.

    I use a lot of soapy water while mounting the bead, about 50/50% water/dish-soap.

    You might be able to air it up at the air station at a gas station. Bring plenty of soapy water with you. And if presta valved you'll need a shrader to presta connector that bike shops usually carry.

    I got this to replace some funky fittings I was first using with my air tank. http://www.prestaflator.com/

    Good luck! It's worth it in the end. But can be very frustrating until you gain success.
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  18. #18
    TNC
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    Quote Originally Posted by mario_a
    Received me Blunts today

    Problem is I can't get them inflated. Using Using Slime 26 inch tubes and one wrap of no tube yellow rim strip tape. Trying to hand pump, air is leaking everywhere!!

    Do I need compressed air to get the beads seated?

    Have I missed a step in the ghetto tubless process?

    Please help, I deperately want to get out on the trail with my Mojo !!

    Mario
    I know people are able to get their tubeless setups to "jump up" with a floor pump, but I find it a major hassle and darned near impossible with some tire/rim combos. The air tank...hopefully with a compressor...makes the job easy and a flat out guarantee in just about every case.

  19. #19
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    Sometimes, it can be frustrating, especially if you are trying to do it alone, one hand on the pump and one on the tire...

    Really, it all depends on the fitting...how tight the tire to rim fit is. If you have a tight fit, then they pump up easier, if the tire is loose on the rim, it's a b!tch sometimes.
    If you think that the fit is loose, go along to your local gas station and use their compressed air gun. Nine times out of ten this does the trick. If you own a compressor yourself, use that.

    Best of luck, I hope you get it to inflate.



    Rainman.



    Quote Originally Posted by mario_a
    Received me Blunts today

    Problem is I can't get them inflated. Using Using Slime 26 inch tubes and one wrap of no tube yellow rim strip tape. Trying to hand pump, air is leaking everywhere!!

    Do I need compressed air to get the beads seated?

    Have I missed a step in the ghetto tubless process?

    Please help, I deperately want to get out on the trail with my Mojo !!

    Mario
    It is inevitable ...

  20. #20
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    wow fellas!! thanks for the replies.

    Fortunately, visiting my parents for the holidays and found they have a compressor in the garage. Sacrificed the tube on a kid's bike and cut the shrader valve in half, removed the valve nipple and viola! have my own home made adapter.

    Quasimoto bead seated nicely, now just need to wait for the neo's to arrive today. It's rainy so me thinks I'll need the neo's for my first spin on my new and finally built Mojo!!

    One other question... any issues with swapping tires on a ghetto tubeless wheel? Or do I need to do the whole exercise again?

    cheers

  21. #21
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    Hi, just wonder, can I set up using Velocity Blunt and "Veloplugs" instead?

    Will I still need a extra rim tape for the tire to sit in properly?

  22. #22
    TNC
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    mario, you'll have to use another tube for the ghetto deal...unless you're miraculously able to get that trimmed tube in exactly the same position...obviously nearly impossible I would think, and I haven't even tried a ghetto setup.

  23. #23
    TNC
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    kiatkiat, Rainman is using the combo of Velox and yellow tape to build up the valley for better bead seating. I don't think Veloplugs will accomplish this at all. Now, this doesn't mean you can't use Veloplugs and some other combination of materials to build up the valley for proper seating, but you'll probably have to experiment a bit to come up with a workable combo.

  24. #24
    TNC
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    Hey Rainman...I thought I read in one of your comments on this forum that you were using a 24" tube for your ghetto setup. I thought most people use a 20" tube for 26" rim ghetto setups, so the 24" tube for 650B sounded sort of logical. Am I missing anything here?

  25. #25
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    Tnc

    Do you know of anyone crazy-gluing the tube to the rim?

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