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  1. #1
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    Smile 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty

    Have you ridden one of these HD's?

    It is awesome!

    Rather than add more to the 3+ year old 650b Mojo thread, I thought it would be more clear to isolate the 650b HD conversion into a separate thread.

    For the last 5 years my Mojo C has been the most reliable full suspension frame, by far, in 15 years of owning FS bikes. I continued to demo ride many other bikes, but was always more happy returning to my Mojo for my riding interests of lighter climbing weight, easy efficient pedaling, good handling, and very smooth suspension. I had always wanted a stiffer frame, the Lopes Link helped a lot. A year ago Santa Cruz introduced stiffer and as light weight 5.5 inch travel carbon fiber bike, the LTC. Until then no other 5.5 inch travel bike matched the weight and stiffness of the Mojo C and SL.

    Now the new Mojo SL-R is lighter and as minimal in flex as any other with 5.5 travel, but it doesn’t clear 650b. The HD is even stiffer than the SL-R and with the same shock is only ½ pound heavier than my Mojo C, and most important to me, the HD easily clears 650b.

    The HD can be set up as a 140mm or 160mm travel bike using different shocks and mounting hardware.

    I wanted to see what the change in frame would do to handling, with no other changes from my C. So I swapped everything over from my C. The only thing different was the HD frame and the shifter cables to match the different lengths, and the new direct-mount XT front derailleur. So I’m starting with 140mm travel, Shimano 10 speed 11-36 cogs, 9 speed 22-32 rings, coil Lyrik u-turn front, PUSH'd Vanilla RC rear, and 650b X 2.3 Pacenti Neo-Motos.

    First flight on the HD…

    I went for a familiar 17 mile local loop including 2 miles road commute each way, Tamarancho, with an alternative faster downhill exit into Cascade Canyon. The loop from my home makes a little more than 2000 vertical climbing, and the reward of that much downhill. It includes pavement and smooth hard pack to mostly rough eroded gravely rocky singletrack, and a faster speed overgrown fireroad alternative downhill exit to the back roads returning home.

    Tuning my rear shock was interesting. The HD made the same shock’s settings from the C feel firmer. Adding the Lopes-Link on my C did the same thing but not as big a difference. I ended up reducing coil preload and softening damping, with 1 full turn less preload (that's a big difference when I noticed the difference of 1/4 turn firmer or softer on the C). And I softened compression 3 clicks to be wide open, and softened rebound 1 click. I think the HD must be more linear just under sag than the C, and the stiffness makes the shock work harder.

    I'm sure it's been said many times, the HD is solid. The feel of the tires' traction is confidence inspiring, to be able to push corners harder and through rocks with precise control. And the response to pedal effort feels more powerful, encouraging using a higher gear bringing more momentum and ease. And downhill, the HD encourages banging banked turns, effortless rock hops and jumps, railing looser flatter sweepers.

    Building the bike was pretty easy. The solid mount front derailleur was so easy, what an improvement! I can get all ten cogs in both front 9-speed rings with no rub and no suspension link interference.

    The 650b x 2.3 Pacenti tires clear easily. No rub, unlike the C which after 3 years have rubbed the stay finish away by the edges of the outer knobs about 1/16 inch deep. I measured my BB height at 13 3/4 inches, 1/8 inch higher that the C with the same wheels and tires and fork height. Looks like set up with 160mm travel front and rear it will have a 14 inch BB height with 650b, which seems appropriate for about 35% rear sag with good pedaling clearance.

    As the pictures show there’s plenty of clearance set to 140mm travel, at least ½ inch from the seat tube. I’ll post back here later after converting to 160mm travel, seat tube clearance might require shimming bottom travel a little.

    Did I say this already? The HD is awesome!!!

    I really like the color and finish work. It is so well engineered, and looks spectacular!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-hd-side.jpg  

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-hd-clearance1.jpg  

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-hd-clearance2-bottom.jpg  


  2. #2
    bikeboatbrewski
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    You know you are killing me by posting this. Must get my hands on an HD!!!

  3. #3
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    So that I fully understand...this is a 2011/2012 Mojo HD running in 140mm mode that has not had any modifications done to accommodate a 650b rear wheel. Please tell me this is the case. BTW…what is the weight of that bad boy?

  4. #4
    bikeboatbrewski
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    Interesting pick with the Vanilla RC on the rear, everyone seems to rave about the RS Monarch.

  5. #5
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    Thanks I had not seen your 1st post. Great info, I love my HD. I have also owned a mojo and a SL and wanted to do 650b on all these bikes. I am going foward on 650 for the HD . What build did you do on the wheels? What was the weight? Thanks for your feedback

  6. #6
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    I really like the suspension on the Mojo's but their short wheelbase has always put me off. HD would make a fun long travel xc/ trail bike though.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by motomikec View Post
    Thanks I had not seen your 1st post. Great info, I love my HD. I have also owned a mojo and a SL and wanted to do 650b on all these bikes. I am going foward on 650 for the HD . What build did you do on the wheels? What was the weight? Thanks for your feedback
    I build my own wheels. These are 650b Velocity P35 32 hole front rim and Blunt 32 hole rear, with DT Competition spokes 3X and Hadley hubs. Ghetto tubeless rim strips with Stan's sealant. Pacenti Neo-moto 650b x 2.3 front and rear.

    My Mojo C was 31 lbs last time I weighed it with all the same AM components I had swapped to the HD for 140mm travel. The HD frame is reported to be 1/2 lb heavier with the same shock. All the tubes are a little bigger than the C (and SL) and the swingarm stays are square for maximum stiffness for the weight.

    The HD with all the same parts doesn't feel any heavier than the C when picking it up, maybe a little. While riding I don't feel the 1/2 added pound, but really do feel the major stiffness improvement, also the shock rate feels better for coil, and the 1 degree slacker head angle at 140mm travel front and rear smooths the fork hits event more and adds stability at faster speeds. All together it gives a big improvement in my confidence in all difficult and faster situations.

    Took a second ride today. And dialed in my seat height. And added 1/4 turn preload, so till 3/4 turn less than the C liked with the same shock.

    I have a new Van-R 8.5 x 2.5 to take the HD to 160mm travel. I want to try it stock first, and then send to PUSH for the MX upgrade, for custom LSC/HSC and R. A new PUSH Monarch would be a littler nicer, by having a larger damper volume, but it would cost hundreds more $$ having all the same PUSH parts and custom tuning.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I really like the suspension on the Mojo's but their short wheelbase has always put me off. HD would make a fun long travel xc/ trail bike though.
    Yes it is!

    Go a size larger? The HD is about an inch longer wheelbase than the SL in the same size.

  9. #9
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    One further point of clarification; is this the HD frame with the 142x12 rear spacing?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilether View Post
    One further point of clarification; is this the HD frame with the 142x12 rear spacing?
    My swingarm has 135mm hub axle spacing.

    I haven't seen the 142mm yet. It doesn't matter to me. The 135mm has effective dropout hollows for the hub ends and is very easy to mount the wheel with the QR Maxle 12mm axle.

    I hear the 142 has a carbon rear brake mount, which is probably more durable than the 135mm's forged magnesium if crashed bad. And of course the weight savings must be huge

    There's always going to be upgrades and tweaks to the Mojo's, as they keep improving the state of their art.

    This is simply a cheater bike!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    My swingarm has 135mm hub axle spacing.

    I haven't seen the 142mm yet. It doesn't matter to me. The 135mm has effective dropout hollows for the hub ends and is very easy to mount the wheel with the QR Maxle 12mm axle.

    I hear the 142 has a carbon rear brake mount, which is probably more durable than the 135mm's forged magnesium if crashed bad. And of course the weight savings must be huge

    There's always going to be upgrades and tweaks to the Mojo's, as they keep improving the state of their art.

    This is simply a cheater bike!!
    The only reason I ask is because I am curious if the 650b conversion will still work with the updated 142 spacing. As far as I know, the update to the 142 spacing has very little to do with performance and much more to do with the fact that Shimano adopted the 142 spacing and so it was seen as the next "standard." Anyway, I am very interested in throwing some 650b wheels on my Mojo HD 140 and am just curious if the rear will still work.

  12. #12
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    nice!
    Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; 08-21-2011 at 05:43 PM.
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    Pacenti Cycle Design

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilether View Post
    The only reason I ask is because I am curious if the 650b conversion will still work with the updated 142 spacing. As far as I know, the update to the 142 spacing has very little to do with performance and much more to do with the fact that Shimano adopted the 142 spacing and so it was seen as the next "standard." Anyway, I am very interested in throwing some 650b wheels on my Mojo HD 140 and am just curious if the rear will still work.
    I expect the 142 will still clear as well as my 135 spacing since the HD is pleanty stiff, and made for bigger tires than the SL-R. But fitting is the true test. I also had the same concern. And was somewhat relieved I got the 135 spacing, after knowing it would clear 650b easily from fitting my wheel in a couple HD's previously.

  14. #14
    NedwannaB
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    That's easy, it's in.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti View Post
    Where are the pictures?
    Ok, I won't spill the beans, I'll let Derby chime in. (can't believe you don't recognize that infamous ridgeline silohuette....)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-hd-side.jpg  

    Wait,who did he tell you that?....

  15. #15
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    The Sleeping Lady

    The view is from a Marin County Open Space section of legal! singletrack called Wagon Wheel, bordering Tamarancho Boy Scout Camp above Fairfax, CA.

    Looking from right to left, there's Bolinas, Rocky, Northside, and East Ridges of Mt. Tamalpias.

    The famed silhouette of the "Sleeping Lady", the sleeping Miwok Princess Tamalpias, for whom the mountain was named for, can be seen lying on her back facing east, from the peak down the East Peak and East ridge, with her hair flowing off the top to the west.

    And you can almost see the top of the Golden Gate Bridge and San Fransisco behind.

    Just off the picture to the right is Pine Mountain and San Geronimo Ridge and sections of the "Repack" DH (or a crazy steep climb) can be seen.

    We are very lucky to have so much great riding near a big city.




    ....
    Last edited by derby; 08-17-2011 at 08:52 AM. Reason: Sleeping Lady

  16. #16
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    The 142x12 rear spacing can easily clear a neo-Moto 650b 2.3 tire mounted on a stans flow rim (28 mm) rim width like the blunt. The clearance is exactly like derbys pics. Mine is built up. Pics coming. Thanks derby so we can now add to this new thread.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by red bank rider View Post
    The 142x12 rear spacing can easily clear a neo-Moto 650b 2.3 tire mounted on a stans flow rim (28 mm) rim width like the blunt. The clearance is exactly like derbys pics. Mine is built up. Pics coming. Thanks derby so we can now add to this new thread.
    Awesome! Now I have a winter project for myself.

  18. #18
    bikeboatbrewski
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    Ibis Mojo HD(on 650b) for the win!



  19. #19
    NedwannaB
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    Yah I was ooogling the MoJo's @ Yuba X while up in Dville a couple weeks ago. I may try to have them throw my wheelset on one of their rentals to use if I get back up there.
    Wait,who did he tell you that?....

  20. #20
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    My Mojo HD140-650B

    So I'd like to introduce you to my HD140 with 650B Front and rear.

    First,the important 650B compatibility stuff:
    Rear Wheel is Stans Flow with 28mm rim width and Stans3.3 HD hub
    Rear tire showing is the Pacenti Neo Moto 2.3 width
    The rear shock fully deflated and compressed offers absolutely no cable or seat tube rub
    The rear is the new 142X12 axle
    Frame size is large

    The other stuff:
    Jagwire red cables
    Cane Creek 110 Headset-red (upgrade with bike frame)
    XT Direct Mount FD 9spd
    Most every other component came straight off my BMC Trailfox B6er:
    White Brothers 650B fork 140mm travel and 20mm thru axle (retails as 130mm but measures 140mm)
    Velocity Blunt Front Wheel with NeoMoto 2.3 tire
    XT Rear Derailleur 9spd
    SLX Triple Crank 9spd
    SLX Shifters 9spd
    Sram PG980 cassette
    Avid Juicy 5 Brakes
    Truvativ Stylo T2 75 mm stem (trying out 75mm length for now)
    Easton Monkeybar EA70
    Ritchey Carbon Seatpost
    Velo Pronto Saddle
    Odi grips

    Not the lightest components from my old bike for sure.Bike weighs 30.0 lbs on my scale with pedals. As time goes on I'll upgrade, and hopefully get the bike down to 27-28lbs. I just wanted to switch over as many of my components as possible.

    IMO, this is the ultimate 650B full suspension bike being able to handle any 650B rear wheel or tire that is out there right now. Thanks Ibis, and Lou at BriarCliff Bikeworks for offering a bike for us 650Bers capable of accommodating our wildest dreams!

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-img_4684.jpg

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-img_4682.jpg

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-img_4679r.jpg

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-img_4681r.jpg

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-img_4685.jpg



    Had my first ride today at Hartshorne today. seems to climb nearly identical to my 29er steel hardtail. Too soon to tell...I'll give a full ride report soon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-img_4683.jpg  

    Last edited by red bank rider; 08-20-2011 at 05:52 PM.

  21. #21
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    See linked thread, Hans says that the new frames with the direct mount FD have an extra 4 mm of clearance
    This post is reffering to a standard 26" wheel of course

    I'd like to see this thread resurrected. I am in the market for a faster and higher volume rear tire (just because) and am wondering what my options are. I'm thinking Nobby Nic's or Trail Kings or Ardent and so on....
    What sizes fit the HD without rubbing on bottom out? I bottom my RP23 out a few times per ride and would hate to have my tire contact my frame.
    I'm currently running a 2.35 MAXXIS High Roller on a Stan's Flow Rim in the rear with (no surprise here) no rub.

    Thanks in advance for help !!
    Maximum tire diameter diameter = 685mm. For reference WTB Mutano Raptor 2.4 = 675mm

    HDs with the drirect mount FD have another 4mm or so clearance.

    As far as we know this clears most any tire you might want to run on it.


    H
    Last edited by Bones2; 08-20-2011 at 08:40 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by red bank rider View Post
    So I'd like to introduce you to my HD140 with 650B Front and rear.

    Had my first ride today at Hartshorne today. seems to climb nearly identical to my 29er steel hardtail. Too soon to tell...I'll give a full ride report soon.
    Love the P green . That's the color I would get as well.

    How do you like the rear suspension compared to the Trailfox. I rode a earlier Trailfox and it was quite active on the small stuff and quite progressive towards the end of the stroke. I've heard the mojo is tighter on the small stuff but goes deep on the big stuff?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    How do you like the rear suspension compared to the Trailfox. I rode a earlier Trailfox and it was quite active on the small stuff and quite progressive towards the end of the stroke. I've heard the mojo is tighter on the small stuff but goes deep on the big stuff?
    I had an 07 TF with what they called an Advanced pivot system(APS)...it was their version of a VPP as far as i could tell. it was great/active on the small stuff(seated) and okay on the large. The only reason it was stiff at the end was that I had to ramp up shock pressure to minimize pedal bob when standing. My big issue is it robbed a lot of my power uphill, and even the lockout still had some energy sapping shock movement. Probably could have remedied this by replacing the shock with an RP23 platform, but I also wanted carbon, slacker head angle, and full 650B = MojoHD140!
    Initial HD settings indicate the rear is in the active area thru the small as well as the bigger stuff (set at 90% of total weight). TBD how the suspension climbs for me.

  24. #24
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    Spectacular!

    I had to put my sunglasses on! And great to see the 142mm wide swingarm clears 650b easily as the 135mm.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by red bank rider View Post
    So I'd like to introduce you to my HD140 with 650B Front and rear.

    First,the important 650B compatibility stuff:
    Rear Wheel is Stans Flow with 28mm rim width and Stans3.3 HD hub
    Rear tire showing is the Pacenti Neo Moto 2.3 width
    The rear shock fully deflated and compressed offers absolutely no cable or seat tube rub
    The rear is the new 142X12 axle
    Frame size is large

    The other stuff:
    Jagwire red cables
    Cane Creek 110 Headset-red (upgrade with bike frame)
    XT Direct Mount FD 9spd
    Most every other component came straight off my BMC Trailfox B6er:
    White Brothers 650B fork 140mm travel and 20mm thru axle (retails as 130mm but measures 140mm)
    Velocity Blunt Front Wheel with NeoMoto 2.3 tire
    XT Rear Derailleur 9spd
    SLX Triple Crank 9spd
    SLX Shifters 9spd
    Sram PG980 cassette
    Avid Juicy 5 Brakes
    Truvativ Stylo T2 75 mm stem (trying out 75mm length for now)
    Easton Monkeybar EA70
    Ritchey Carbon Seatpost
    Velo Pronto Saddle
    Odi grips

    Not the lightest components from my old bike for sure.Bike weighs 30.0 lbs on my scale with pedals. As time goes on I'll upgrade, and hopefully get the bike down to 27-28lbs. I just wanted to switch over as many of my components as possible.

    IMO, this is the ultimate 650B full suspension bike being able to handle any 650B rear wheel or tire that is out there right now. Thanks Ibis, and Lou at BriarCliff Bikeworks for offering a bike for us 650Bers capable of accommodating our wildest dreams!

    Had my first ride today at Hartshorne today. seems to climb nearly identical to my 29er steel hardtail. Too soon to tell...I'll give a full ride report soon.
    What's the weight of that bad boy? Seriously looking to give the 650b Mojo HD a try. When is the full review?

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