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  1. #76
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    Looks like a twin of mine!
    What kind of Fox talas fork is that? r? rlc? r2?
    I'm assuming its a 120-150mm?

    What was the final weight of that?

  2. #77
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    you mean the better twin right?.....
    Its the RLC 150 Talas. I do not know the weigh of it yet... but it should be slightly less than 13 Kg if I compare it to its weight before the change...

    Itay

  3. #78
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    mojo with 650s!! amazing!

  4. #79
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    Are those 2.3 Neo's front and rear?

  5. #80
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    Its 2.1 and 2.3 rear and front respectively.
    Itay

  6. #81
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    Same thing I'm running currently on my SL.... solid combo

  7. #82
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    Took the dive today and ordered 650b wheels for my HD 160, but it's not too late to change the order if I decide to not do it. Basically my thinking is that the larger wheel size will increase climbing ability and overall smoothness of the trails. Is this way off? It seems to have been asked before without a definitive answer, but is there a noticeable difference in pedaling efficiency? I ride mostly in SLO where we have extremely steep hills, some chunk, some flow; does 650b sound like a good match - I frequently do a 21 mile loop with 2500 feet of climbing and am hoping to make the climb a bit more enjoyable. I also ride around Sac, granite bay, auburn, rockville - anybody ride a 650b mojo there? I will also have a pair of azonic outlaws for N* and Downieville, so I am not completely jumping out of the 26" game... Any and all input is greatly appreciated!

  8. #83
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    Yes, you'll like it....do it. Like a lot of people I transitioned first to 650b front and was happy with the rough trail roll-over, extra high speed stability, and cornering grip/confidence. Some folks had played down the influence of the rear wheel, and admittedly the front wheel does make a more noticeable difference. But I was really pleasantly surprised by the extra climbing grip (even with "less" tire) and the feeling of enhanced efficiency and fast easy rolling.... and of course, they hang up less to improve technical climbing. Your gearing will be a little higher, which might help you break through to new climbing speeds, or you may want to drop a size on your granny if you've got stupid steep barely rideable climbs to tackle. I changed from 36/26 chainrings to 36/24 just so I could keep making those 2 or 3 spots that took so many tries over the years to conquer.

  9. #84
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    Alright thanks, that makes me feel better. I currently am on 1x10 and love it with 34 up front and 12-36 in back, currently for all the climbs I have any desire to actually ride up, the lowest gearing is adequate, though I do have to keep up a pretty good cadence to maintain traction. Will it be significantly more resistant with the larger wheels?

  10. #85
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    2.35 Nevegal 650b on Mojo HD

    I've seen lots of NeoMoto 2.1's and 2.3's on the back end of HD's, but never a 2.35 Nevegal. I prefer the Neo's in back for most situations myself, but wish I could match my front Nev. fatty with a rear for the technical root/rock rides when it's sloppy wet like it is now... won't fit on my SL though... Any of you 650BHD kids have a pic of swingarm clearance with a big Nev?

  11. #86
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    I currently have my HD set up in 160 mode... contemplating building up a set of 650b's but am unsure of what rim to go with. I would probably be running the set up with a 160mm talas in front. maybe 140 rear, but couldn't I just get away with shimming the rear? Alot cheaper than buying a new shock...
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
    2012 MOJO HDeeeeeeee!!!!
    2010 scott CR1 comp

  12. #87
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    My Hadley / 2.0DB / Flow wheels have been SUPERB. I'm really interested in the much lighter and just as wide new Pacenti TL28's...WITH EYELETS even.... if you're not a big parts masher that might be the ticket.

  13. #88
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    I just ordered Stans flows with ZTR 3.30HD hubs, decently light, seems like they will be very solid. I too am running mine in 160 and have it shimmed already even though I don't have the big wheels yet. The shimming feels nice, Im running 10-15 psi softer and still no bob, back end feel much plusher. I made them out of the bottoms of plastic milk bottles, very easy 20-30 minute job tops.
    Last edited by banebane; 02-28-2012 at 01:37 PM.

  14. #89
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    I put the medium fox spacer in, is that the same as shimming the RP-23? I have 26" flows with ibis hubs right now. What about the flow 350s? I'd kinda like to be a little lighter than the flows. Right now the 26" wheelset I have with flows and ibis hubs are around 1850g.
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
    2012 MOJO HDeeeeeeee!!!!
    2010 scott CR1 comp

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I put the medium fox spacer in, is that the same as shimming the RP-23? I have 26" flows with ibis hubs right now. What about the flow 350s? I'd kinda like to be a little lighter than the flows. Right now the 26" wheelset I have with flows and ibis hubs are around 1850g.
    No, the Fox spacers are designed to change air volume/spring rate WITHOUT limiting the total travel. They nest in the top of the shock body, but to limit travel you need shims that go on the shock shaft itself... Derby or one of the other guys who've tried 160 mode w/ 650b will have to comment on whether you need to limit travel or not... and of course it's always a good idea to confirm it yourself with your bike and wheels. If you do need to shim it's a super simple job...don't even have to pull the shock off the bike. You should be able to find some good threads by Derby on the subject.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    No, the Fox spacers are designed to change air volume/spring rate WITHOUT limiting the total travel. They nest in the top of the shock body, but to limit travel you need shims that go on the shock shaft itself... Derby or one of the other guys who've tried 160 mode w/ 650b will have to comment on whether you need to limit travel or not... and of course it's always a good idea to confirm it yourself with your bike and wheels. If you do need to shim it's a super simple job...don't even have to pull the shock off the bike. You should be able to find some good threads by Derby on the subject.
    Yes, the HD 160 does need shock bottom travel limit shims. The HD140 does not.

    My 2'nd generation 2011 HD has 4mm added bottom travel tire clearance compared to the original model HD's. And set up as an HD160, mine required 2mm total thickness in hand made shims to prevent hard bottom out tire rub with a 2.3 Neo-moto (650b).

    Here is a link to an earlier post here about easily making hand made thin plastic washers as shims, or using hardware store purchased plastic washers, that can be split to go around the shock shaft and limit travel. http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/650b-sho...ce-623853.html

    The Fox air shock volume reducing shims, and Rockshox has something similar too, or hand made doing the same, might be helpful to produce an earlier spring rate ramp up (whether or not limiting travel using shock shaft shims).

  17. #92
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    Thanks for the reply derby. I believe I have the 2nd gen HD. I got mine last fall in september of 2011. I have the 142 rear. Sounds awesome. I can't wait to get some wheels built up an start running in 650b mode. Any rim/hub suggestions to match up with the HD's performance? Was thinkin of the new pacenti 28mm's with hope pro II's or possibly dt240's?
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
    2012 MOJO HDeeeeeeee!!!!
    2010 scott CR1 comp

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    hope pro II's or possibly dt240's?
    Sing along Derby,

    HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY

    Way cheaper and faster engaging than the DT's, while just as fast rolling and convertible.

    A little more $ than the Hope's but just as convertible, with quicker engagement and about 1 / 10,000 the rolling resistance in the rear.

    Plus they're nice people to deal with, made in USA, and have dealers like Eric at Balle Racing that know it, stock it, sell it at low prices, and are happy to help you even when you're being a PITA.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Sing along Derby,

    HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY

    Way cheaper and faster engaging than the DT's, while just as fast rolling and convertible.

    A little more $ than the Hope's but just as convertible, with quicker engagement and about 1 / 10,000 the rolling resistance in the rear.

    Plus they're nice people to deal with, made in USA, and have dealers like Eric at Balle Racing that know it, stock it, sell it at low prices, and are happy to help you even when you're being a PITA.
    Looks like balle is all out of stock of the 12x142 rear, and the 20mmx110mm fronts. The hadley's are heavy bastarts too... 360g just for the rear hub. I'm kind of ignorant of what makes a good hub vs. a bad hub etc... why would you want to "convert" a hub anyway?
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
    2012 MOJO HDeeeeeeee!!!!
    2010 scott CR1 comp

  20. #95
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    looks like I could build up a pair of flow 650bs for around 650 in materials. Still would have to have them built up. I did some more reading on the hadleys, definitely sounds good. Also looks like I could build up a complete set of flow 650bs with hadley 12x142 rear hub and 20mm front hub and be around 1850g... not too shabby! Anyone have red barn cyclery build wheels for them?
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
    2012 MOJO HDeeeeeeee!!!!
    2010 scott CR1 comp

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Looks like balle is all out of stock of the 12x142 rear, and the 20mmx110mm fronts. The hadley's are heavy bastarts too... 360g just for the rear hub. I'm kind of ignorant of what makes a good hub vs. a bad hub etc... why would you want to "convert" a hub anyway?
    Be careful when comparing claimed weights online. I know for my Hadley rear hub, the claimed weight included the thru bolt, while other brands didn't. There's a good reason their rear hub is heavier than some.... the free hub body is machined from Titanium instead of aluminum, so it will never get chewed up by your cassette, leaving you unable to get your cassette off without violent force. Also, their front XC hub will take all axle standards up to 20mm, which makes it quite a bit lighter than other brands oversize, 20mm-capable, front hubs. When I compared my XC 20mm front / 135x10 thru bolt rear pair to a Chris King set capable of doing the same thing the Hadley set was actually LIGHTER.... by a whopping 3 gms...but still, the only reason they're slightly heavier than the lightest comparable stuff is for a good reason....indestructible freehub. And weight at the hub is not that big a deal compared to weight in the rim, or especially the tire. I can't count how many times (every time, basically) I've coasted away from my 40lb-heavier riding buddies on Hope and King hubs thanks to the lower friction Hadleys. Disclaimer: The Hadleys may require more maintenance in super wet conditions than Kings due to the nature of their seals, but that hasn't been an issue for me. And yes, they've become really popular so they sell out a lot....I had to wait for my rear hub. Universal Cycles also stocks them and with their "vip15" discount code they come close to Balle's price.

    You'd want to be able to convert your hubs to future-proof them so you can use them on other bikes or forks. The Hadley front XC hub will do 9mm qr, 9mm thru bolt, 15mm thru, 20mm thru, and the rears will do 10mm qr, 10mmx135 thru, 12x135 thru, 12x142 thru...and probably more.

    IMO, hub features in order of importance are:
    1. Durability and ease of maintenance: +1 hadley
    2. Rolling resistance....that's their whole reason for existence anyway: +1 hadley
    3. Convertability: +1 hadley
    4. Customer service: +1 hadley and balle
    5. Price: Hadley's low to mid-pack for premium hubs
    6. Weight: not the lightest but competitive
    7. Engagement: +1 hadley
    8. Wet weather seals: not the best but you can install different bearings if you live in a wet place...this will cost you a little rolling resistance, and is why Kings have more drag.

    Everybody will have a different order, but it's some combination of these factors.... for me, Hadley strikes the best balance. I'm not bagging on any of the other choices, King and DT make super awesome hubs and I'd love to have wheelsets with both if I were sponsored.....as far as Hope hubs go I'll say that I really love my Hope brakes Somebody will probably point out I9 too and they appear to have really nice attributes too but I don't have any experience with them.

  22. #97
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    Looks like you'd already been sold before I finished typing that friggin manifesto...haha.
    That weight should be really close, from memory I believe mine are 1810gm for the set and I used lighter XL14 spokes on the front and allow nips all around... I'm a relatively light rider. One other thing that's a small bummer... if you get the xc front hub setup for 20mm the axle end caps are loose, so it makes wheel installation a little goofy....one of those jobs that's easier with 3 hands, but with a little practice I can do it quick and easy the first try. Their downhill hub is a little heavier but doesn't have that downside and is now convertible to all common standards. I build my own so can't comment on Red Barn.

    BTW, my Flow's have been great, but if the Pacenti TL28's had been out I would have gone with them instead...same width, much lighter, welded, eyelets, and first reports on build quality, stiffness, and tubeless setup are all excellent. Plus Kirk's kind of our patron saint right? If you're a hoss you might be better staying with the Flows though....they're well proven.

  23. #98
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    Haha, ya I'm kinda sold, I did some research, and my buddy is actually having a wheelset built up as we speak by red barn, an he said they were very reasonable price wise. I'm thinking Hadley rear and hope pro II front I don't feel like messing with a xc front hub as I will most likely be changing set ups often, as I run the HD with a 160 talas for every day, and swap to a 180mm coil for the bike park.

    I am about 160 with all my riding gear on, I have flows on my HD now and they are a solid wheel and have had REALLY good luck with my tubeless set up as well. I'm just worried about the pacenti tl28's as... even the description says "good for everything short of big jumps and drops" I regularly hit 4-5' drops. Are the new pacenti's strong enough for that kind of riding? Or am I silly to even think about them over the flows for my type of riding? My average ride 15 minutes from my house has about 10-15 good sized jumps/drops that I hit on a regular basis...
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
    2012 MOJO HDeeeeeeee!!!!
    2010 scott CR1 comp

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Haha, ya I'm kinda sold, I did some research, and my buddy is actually having a wheelset built up as we speak by red barn, an he said they were very reasonable price wise. I'm thinking Hadley rear and hope pro II front I don't feel like messing with a xc front hub as I will most likely be changing set ups often, as I run the HD with a 160 talas for every day, and swap to a 180mm coil for the bike park.

    I am about 160 with all my riding gear on, I have flows on my HD now and they are a solid wheel and have had REALLY good luck with my tubeless set up as well. I'm just worried about the pacenti tl28's as... even the description says "good for everything short of big jumps and drops" I regularly hit 4-5' drops. Are the new pacenti's strong enough for that kind of riding? Or am I silly to even think about them over the flows for my type of riding? My average ride 15 minutes from my house has about 10-15 good sized jumps/drops that I hit on a regular basis...
    Hadley's have been good hubs to me. I'm 200 lbs and ride mostly where there's much climbing, roots and rocks, so most metal components and frames under me wear out or fail in about 2 years. But my Hadley rear hub lasted much longer than common, finally needing rebuilding after 4 years. I only own one bike, so that was about 7 to 9 thousand miles, not sure (my miles are getting shorter with advancing age, I used to do 3 to 4.5k miles per year with much climbing).

    I just received a pair a new Hadley hubs to build up a new wheelset, to retire my old wheels to be back ups and loaners to friends interested in trying 650b.

    I'm probably going to use Kirk Pacenti's TL rims. I've been on Velocity rims Blunt and P35 (front), and they have held up well, especially the P35. They work well for tubeless convert with ghetto (split tube) rim strips. They are a bit soft and dent easily when pressures are too low for rocky conditions (and the dents straighten out easily too). I only do 3 ft to flat drops max so far.

    I want to build a 26 inch rear wheel for occasional DH park use. To slack the frame angles and lower the BB since climbing pedal clearance isn't an issue. Unless I find a good deal on a used high end hub, I think I'm going to try an Atomlab Pimplite. The Pimplite has 60 engagement points which is quicker than all but a few hubs. There are few reviews, but nothing bad. Personally I don't like Hope rear hubs becuse they are extremely slow engaging, flexy, relatively high friction, obnoxiously loud, and not durable for more than XC and light AM use from user reviews in the DH forum.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Haha, ya I'm kinda sold, I did some research, and my buddy is actually having a wheelset built up as we speak by red barn, an he said they were very reasonable price wise. I'm thinking Hadley rear and hope pro II front I don't feel like messing with a xc front hub as I will most likely be changing set ups often, as I run the HD with a 160 talas for every day, and swap to a 180mm coil for the bike park.

    I am about 160 with all my riding gear on, I have flows on my HD now and they are a solid wheel and have had REALLY good luck with my tubeless set up as well. I'm just worried about the pacenti tl28's as... even the description says "good for everything short of big jumps and drops" I regularly hit 4-5' drops. Are the new pacenti's strong enough for that kind of riding? Or am I silly to even think about them over the flows for my type of riding? My average ride 15 minutes from my house has about 10-15 good sized jumps/drops that I hit on a regular basis...
    Only early reports on the TL28's thus far, but they're very positive. I would have pegged you for an ideal candidate for that rim, and you may still be, but the "180mm coil for the bike park" makes me wonder. Are you hard on your equipment? Break much stuff?

    In a perfect world I'd have a TL28 set with lighter faster tires for some of my rides, and my current FLOWS for the burlier stuff.... all on Hadley!

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