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  1. #1
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    650 Invades 29r Realm?

    I am having second thoughts about the future of the 650 in the short travel XC realm. Yes, Nino gave the wheel a boost but are 29r's just to deeply rooted for a more widespread push in the 4" travel or HT xc mkt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by etanc View Post
    I am having second thoughts about the future of the 650 in the short travel XC realm. Yes, Nino gave the wheel a boost but are 29r's just to deeply rooted for a more widespread push in the 4" travel or HT xc mkt?
    Probably, but no nobody seems to be testing the waters. Scott isn't even selling Nino's bike on the open market, much less a Spark 700 which many in this forum are having wet dreams of. Makes no sense to me. If no bike manufacturer is trying to compete against 29" in the XC race category, then 29" wins by default.


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  3. #3
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    It is still pretty early days for this wheel size. It is being focused into the particular market niche where it is unequivocally superior and will then spread and chip away at other areas, particularly destroying the 26er from all reports. It will happen incrementally over the next few years. My guess is we'll see the Scale and Spark released to the public in late 2013 or 2014. Schurter's success speaks for itself and the manufacturers will surely respond as a matter of course.

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    It's being massively hyped in the UK as the next big thing.

    However, Leisure lakes' 2013 catalogue only has one 650B bike; virtually everything is a 29er.

    I guess all the 650Bs will arrive in 2014, when it's already apparent there's no discernible advantage over 26" wheels.

    That's one post, 4 more to go before I can ask for some advice about my front suspension.

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    650B = 26" +10mm

    We are all victims of hype (but its fun, isn't it)... isn't it...?

    (posted by another soon to be 29er victim)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3narf View Post
    I
    I guess all the 650Bs will arrive in 2014, when it's already apparent there's no discernible advantage over 26" wheels.
    I take it you've never ridden 650b and compared it to 26" on the same frame on your regular trails...Otherwise you wouldn't make such ignorant statements
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  7. #7
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    It's not the bike. It's the rider. Nino had similar success on 29ers.

    With that said, it will be some time before more manufacturers get on board with the 27.5 wheel size. It wasnt long ago we were all screaming for more 29ers. They just got done dumping all kinds of money (and still doing so with refined geo and more frames ect.) into the 29" market and they want to recoup as much of that money as possible before they start allocating funds into another market.

    No one has made a 29er HT yet, that is making me regret my 26". I'm willing to give 27.5 a try this spring at the local demos, but I'll wait a bit longer till my choices are more open.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget1 View Post
    650B = 26" +10mm

    We are all victims of hype (but its fun, isn't it)... isn't it...?

    (posted by another soon to be 29er victim)
    First compare apples to apples

    650 Invades 29r Realm?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353593570.722131.jpg

    Then personally demo each bike

    Then have an informed opinion


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    The industry requires change to remain solvent. This can be faux change like the 15mm axle standard (ooooh its lighter than 20mm ), or real change that actually benefits riders, like disc brakes, dropper posts, and yes, new wheel sizes.

    A lot of people ran out and bought 29ers when they came into fashion (a nice sales boost for the industry), and they have proven to be the solid choice for both the XC race set and oddly enough, beginners. Riders who simply want high average speed and front to rear stability to keep from going OTB.

    26ers still dominate Downhill, dirt jump (bmx not withstanding), pump track, and 4x...places where riders seek agility and playability. I've seen 29ers at Rays and it ain't pretty.

    in my opinion there's room for 27.5 anywhere in the middle ( har har) of these disciplines. Is it real change? possibly. Will it drive customers to dealers? probably. It's kind of neat to see companies like Jamis, who were early adopters of this " new standard" ( for mtb use) get some recognition. 27.5 will probably pilfer customers from both camps, that's fine, a sale is a sale in the eyes of the industry.

    If it works for YOU, that's all that matters. Just don't stand on high and prostletize to the "ignorant" who don't see the superiority of your choice. As we've seen, this is the path to supreme ******-baggery.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiNBike View Post
    It's not the bike. It's the rider. Nino had similar success on 29ers.
    Nino's success on 650b disproved the cool aid assertion that 29'ers are inherently superior XC bikes irrespective of the rider, and also the importance of bike fit for the particular rider. I would expect more pro XC riders, particularly women, (below 5'7"), on teams which have all wheel sizes available, to be riding 650b in 2013.


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker View Post
    The industry requires change to remain solvent. This can be faux change like the 15mm axle standard (ooooh its lighter than 20mm ), or real change that actually benefits riders, like disc brakes, dropper posts, and yes, new wheel sizes.

    A lot of people ran out and bought 29ers when they came into fashion (a nice sales boost for the industry), and they have proven to be the solid choice for both the XC race set and oddly enough, beginners. Riders who simply want high average speed and front to rear stability to keep from going OTB.

    26ers still dominate Downhill, dirt jump (bmx not withstanding), pump track, and 4x...places where riders seek agility and playability. I've seen 29ers at Rays and it ain't pretty.

    in my opinion there's room for 27.5 anywhere in the middle ( har har) of these disciplines. Is it real change? possibly. Will it drive customers to dealers? probably. It's kind of neat to see companies like Jamis, who were early adopters of this " new standard" ( for mtb use) get some recognition. 27.5 will probably pilfer customers from both camps, that's fine, a sale is a sale in the eyes of the industry.

    If it works for YOU, that's all that matters. Just don't stand on high and prostletize to the "ignorant" who don't see the superiority of your choice. As we've seen, this is the path to supreme ******-baggery.
    Good post.

    Totally agree about agility and indoor riding. I don't even take my 27.5" HT indoors . One place my old school rigid 26'er SS is in its element. That said, I think you will see a fair amount of 27.5" DH bikes competitive in 2013.

    Also in the ******bag category are the mathematicians who can prove that a wheel size is inferior without ever riding it personally.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiNBike View Post
    It's not the bike. It's the rider. Nino had similar success on 29ers.

    With that said, it will be some time before more manufacturers get on board with the 27.5 wheel size. It wasnt long ago we were all screaming for more 29ers. They just got done dumping all kinds of money (and still doing so with refined geo and more frames ect.) into the 29" market and they want to recoup as much of that money as possible before they start allocating funds into another market.

    No one has made a 29er HT yet, that is making me regret my 26". I'm willing to give 27.5 a try this spring at the local demos, but I'll wait a bit longer till my choices are more open.
    Actually Nino did not have similar success on 29ers; after a bit of experimentation he decided that they didn't feel right and he went back to 26 until Scott started testing 27.5 as an option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker View Post
    If it works for YOU, that's all that matters. Just don't stand on high and prostletize to the "ignorant" who don't see the superiority of your choice. As we've seen, this is the path to supreme ******-baggery.
    Cool.

  14. #14
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    Good comments all. Having had my first ride on the 27.5 at a Rocky Mtn demo I really liked the wheel size and believe it should have a wider place in the market beyond longer travel bikes. I will probably move to a 29r if there continue to be limited 27.5 xc choices but I still think the wheel size would be a blast on xc bikes.

    As far as the 27.5 not being relevant and just the stuff of hype - I don't think so.

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    Troll bait alert! Is it really necessary to start polarizing threads that will ultimately draw the trolls out of the woods?

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    Here in Europe the 27,5 is getting huge, if you want a race hardtail you can choose from at least 20 different manufacturers.
    Unlike in the US the 5'' trailbile options are quite limited-
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Troll bait alert! Is it really necessary to start polarizing threads that will ultimately draw the trolls out of the woods?
    hmmm...a quick re-read of the posts in this flame-free thread appear to be from a group of riders having a civil discussion. Guess this puts the troll count at 1.

    Etanc, be sure to check in with StiHacka before you post next time.

  18. #18
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    Yea, what he (k1creeker) said! :-)

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    I sure hope more XC oriented bikes come out in 650B and the 4" range. I think that marketing will have it's way first ("it's the perfect AM size") and once it's a little more established it might broaden out into other ranges.

    I do understand why manufacturers do this, in selling a bike, you kind of need to have a clear, coherent message to tell (most) consumers. Look at Specialized, they are the master of having exactly one bike (and wheel size) for each specific purpose. They sell a lot of bikes. That said, I can't wait until we get beyond cubby-holing (sp?) each wheel size into a specific realm and just use them as options. Well, mainly I just want the bike described above :-).

  20. #20
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    Huge 29" fan here. First ten years of mountian biking on 26" wheels, the last ten on big hoops.

    Tried the 650b and really like it as a rear wheel for longer travel applications. It allows for a stiffer, shorter, stronger rear end - and better gearing with existing drivetrains. For AM applications where fat, tough rubber is needed, the 650b is more manageable weight wise, where the weight on a heavy duty 29"rim and tire is often too much to haul around and easily maneuver.

    For longer travel trail bikes and AM bikes I think the 650b may be the sweet spot.

    Only time will tell, and I'm looking forward to it.

  21. #21
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    I agree that you have to try it. I am close to trying 650B. I guess people are arguing whether a certain size is worth it, like whether 650B has enough benefits to be chosen over 26" or 29'er...but I look at it differently. I believe 650B can't be bad bc it's between two wheel sizes that are already fun to ride. The way I look at it, I cannot see 650B not being fun. Sure, it's not going to be quite the same as 26" and it's going to be only a little like 29'er, but I would be surprised if I ride my 26" bike with 650B wheels, or a true 650B bike and decide it's not fun.

    The industry has already chosen 650B for now, and I will give it a try. My reasoning for why I can't see it not being worth while is that I love how my 100 mm FS XC 26" Brodie Mettle MTB rides. 650B on my bike or a bike that is similar can only be as good or better.

    One thing I noticed is that there are not as many of the bigger companies making 650B FS XC MTB's with 100 mm travel. It's all about 120-160 mm travel All Mountain or Hardtails. I guess the bike manufacturers feel that 100 mm travel 29'er bikes the world.
    Last edited by morkys; 11-23-2012 at 07:17 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post
    I take it you've never ridden 650b and compared it to 26" on the same frame on your regular trails...Otherwise you wouldn't make such ignorant statements
    Speedy single track, I really like it. Deeply technical steep, rocky rooty trails, tight switchback, drops and ramps etc, it starts to feel like what it is, a bigger wheeled mountain bike and I still prefer the 26er on these trails.

    90 percent of riders out there, are going to like the 650, especially the one's that bought the 29er hype as the next big thing. Long term I think the 29 is what's in trouble. The 650b rolls as well but has a bit more traction and can descend better, and it's a lot easier to ride fast. It's going to regulate the 29er to XC race and become the standard for the average rider who doesn't lean toward the aggressive side of AM/Freeride.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    Speedy single track, I really like it. Deeply technical steep, rocky rooty trails, tight switchback, drops and ramps etc, it starts to feel like what it is, a bigger wheeled mountain bike and I still prefer the 26er on these trails.

    90 percent of riders out there, are going to like the 650, especially the one's that bought the 29er hype as the next big thing. Long term I think the 29 is what's in trouble. The 650b rolls as well but has a bit more traction and can descend better, and it's a lot easier to ride fast. It's going to regulate the 29er to XC race and become the standard for the average rider who doesn't lean toward the aggressive side of AM/Freeride.
    I think your points are well taken and valid. What you say could easily have been posted by Brian Lopes, who certainly fits "the aggressive side of AM/Freeride" definition and who has never been a fan of 29'ers. I assume that extends to 27.5", but have not heard specifically.

    What is of interest though is the current buzz about Aaron Gwin racing on larger wheels (which size not known). Could be huge.



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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiNBike View Post
    It's not the bike. It's the rider. Nino had similar success on 29ers.

    With that said, it will be some time before more manufacturers get on board with the 27.5 wheel size. It wasnt long ago we were all screaming for more 29ers. They just got done dumping all kinds of money (and still doing so with refined geo and more frames ect.) into the 29" market and they want to recoup as much of that money as possible before they start allocating funds into another market.

    No one has made a 29er HT yet, that is making me regret my 26". I'm willing to give 27.5 a try this spring at the local demos, but I'll wait a bit longer till my choices are more open.
    Nino raced the 29er once, he remained on the 26" hardtail until he switched to 650b. I like how people who don't know state something as fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MessagefromTate View Post
    Nino raced the 29er once, he remained on the 26" hardtail until he switched to 650b. I like how people who don't know state something as fact.
    I like hyper aggressive posters and internet strongmen.

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