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  1. #51
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    I see awesome in the future of this thread!
    Hardrock 29er, Niner EMD9, Cannondale F29, Camber Expert, 650b Nickel all gone.
    2014 Giant Anthem 27.5 here.

  2. #52
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    [QUOTE=skidad;9833940]Still listed with a 13" BB height

    What do you mean by "contemporary geometry"? Longer TT, reach, WB, etc???

    QUOTE]

    Mainly WB, along with that short front centre,long stem and steepish head angles. It's their signature but it's very pre 29er tight forrest trail bike geometry.has no one told them 29ers are selling in droves because of their stabilty. Post the 29er revolution , 26" bikes are longer slacker and lower.650B is following.

    5 spot and Mojo Hd by now should be at least 1" longer in the wheelbase and 67 and 66 degree head angle respectively.

    Still, they provide plenty of bikes to convert to 650b. Then they handle properly.

  3. #53
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    Ummm the full Mojo HD has 67 deg (160mm fork) or 66 deg (180mm) HA today and its wheelbase is IMHO quite spot on with its 17.1 stays. I run mine at 66deg with a 1deg angleset @ 160mm and I would not want it any slacker or wheelbase longer.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Mainly WB, along with that short front centre,long stem and steepish head angles. It's their signature but it's very pre 29er tight forrest trail bike geometry.has no one told them 29ers are selling in droves because of their stabilty. Post the 29er revolution , 26" bikes are longer slacker and lower.650B is following.

    5 spot and Mojo Hd by now should be at least 1" longer in the wheelbase and 67 and 66 degree head angle respectively.

    Still, they provide plenty of bikes to convert to 650b. Then they handle properly.
    I'm into 650b for 2 years now, have a converted XC 26'er and a Jamis 560B2 both with 69* HTA. The Rip 9 I demoed also steep HTA. Coming off 20 years of riding/racing XC 26'ers, they all felt normal to me.

    So I've never ridden a "proper" new school bike with slack HTA. I'm just old and irrelevant and wondering how I will adjust to a 5 or 6" 650b with 67* HTA. I can imagine not being able to climb, and getting out of my ability zone coming down.

    Somebody please preview what I should expect
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  5. #55
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    a couple of photos

    Intense 275

    Jamis 650b
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-pa120001.jpg  

    27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_5896.jpg  


  6. #56
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Ummm the full Mojo HD has 67 deg (160mm fork) or 66 deg (180mm) HA today and its wheelbase is IMHO quite spot on with its 17.1 stays. I run mine at 66deg with a 1deg angleset @ 160mm and I would not want it any slacker or wheelbase longer.
    Contemporary AM designs are a full 2" longer in the wheelbase e.g. Meta AM Scott Genius.
    I think you would find a contempoaray 130mm trail bike with the same Geo as the HD handles better in the forrest trail environment. The contemp 130mm suspension designs have changed a lot recently , especially with the boost valve shock, to use more of their travel easier. Hence contemp 130 designs feel like 150mm designs of old but are tighter , more accurate and climb better.

    ACC does wonders on her HD but don't be surprised if disguised under that Pea green paint job some custom Geo tuning. Very easy to do on a frame like the HD.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I'm into 650b for 2 years now, have a converted XC 26'er and a Jamis 560B2 both with 69* HTA. The Rip 9 I demoed also steep HTA. Coming off 20 years of riding/racing XC 26'ers, they all felt normal to me.

    So I've never ridden a "proper" new school bike with slack HTA. I'm just old and irrelevant and wondering how I will adjust to a 5 or 6" 650b with 67* HTA. I can imagine not being able to climb, and getting out of my ability zone coming down.

    Somebody please preview what I should expect
    I'm with you liking 650b at 68 to 69 in forrest trails. Contemp 650b is targeting Enduro bikes so don't expect to many at that head angle. See if you can steal a ride on a 66 to 67 degree 26" bike with relatively lightweight tires[650 to 750g]. You'd be surprised how similar it feels to 650B at 68 degrees.
    When you benchmark against 29ers slack 26" is surprisingly crisp handling.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Contemporary AM designs are a full 2" longer in the wheelbase e.g. Meta AM Scott Genius.
    I think you would find a contempoaray 130mm trail bike with the same Geo as the HD handles better in the forrest trail environment. The contemp 130mm suspension designs have changed a lot recently , especially with the boost valve shock, to use more of their travel easier. Hence contemp 130 designs feel like 150mm designs of old but are tighter , more accurate and climb better.

    ACC does wonders on her HD but don't be surprised if disguised under that Pea green paint job some custom Geo tuning. Very easy to do on a frame like the HD.
    It is all a matter of personal preference. I have a short torso - I like shortish TT. I can compare a very contemporary SC Nickel w/ 5" of APP vs. the HD DW-Link. Yes, the APP feels quite bottomless, but it quite sucks at 1x9 because its platform and anti-squat turns the bike into a hard tail in technical climbing. The DW-Link maintains traction like possessed in forest terrain. Also, I highly prefer speed sensitive shock with linear response over a position sensitive shock with a boost valve - again from my limited experience with an Avalanche DHX 5 vs. Float RL / RP23. Boost valves are nothing but a crutch for poor suspension designs IMO.

  10. #60
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    From the pic above it looks like a proper bar width and stem length on the Jamis for testing and not the stock stuff. Dam you Francois with the NN on there already. Have a set on the way from Germany. Little snug at the upper arch huh?

    I've yet to ride one of these new slack bikes and gotta admit for where I live and the conditions I ride I'm more than a little concerned about how well they can hold a tight line and steer vs pushing against something to turn. Our berms here are rocks and roots, anything but smooth. So many of these bike tests are done out west where long, low and slack bikes seem just fine and polar opposite conditions from New England. Still, I'm very excited about this up coming shootout and maybe I can get my cake and eat it to? If I can get a slack bike that turns on a dime, climbs like a mountain goat, 140-150mm travel with a nice BB height so I'm not smacking pedals constantly and sub 30lbs the credit card will be ready. My 3 kids can do without Christmas presents this year I think?????
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    From the pic above it looks like a proper bar width and stem length on the Jamis for testing and not the stock stuff. Dam you Francois with the NN on there already. Have a set on the way from Germany. Little snug at the upper arch huh?

    I've yet to ride one of these new slack bikes and gotta admit for where I live and the conditions I ride I'm more than a little concerned about how well they can hold a tight line and steer vs pushing against something to turn. Our berms here are rocks and roots, anything but smooth. So many of these bike tests are done out west where long, low and slack bikes seem just fine and polar opposite conditions from New England. Still, I'm very excited about this up coming shootout and maybe I can get my cake and eat it to? If I can get a slack bike that turns on a dime, climbs like a mountain goat, 140-150mm travel with a nice BB height so I'm not smacking pedals constantly and sub 30lbs the credit card will be ready. My 3 kids can do without Christmas presents this year I think?????
    Nice dream. RM Altitude? Genius 700? Both having carbon frames with adjustable HTA and BB height.


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  12. #62
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    You're going to love the new 650b/27.5er Scott Genius. I just rode a pre-production prototype....OMG!!!!
    "The mind will quit....well before the body does"

  13. #63
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    Looking forward to this...

  14. #64
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    2013 - The year of 650b

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah View Post
    You're going to love the new 650b/27.5er Scott Genius. I just rode a pre-production prototype....OMG!!!!
    Yess!! I rode the Scott Genius 700 aluminum in Vegas. It was very awesome. Hopefully, I get a carbon one to test.

    2013 Scott Genius 700 – 650b Ride Report | Mountain Bike Review

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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    2013 - The year of 650b
    I've ridden many of these all mountain 650b bikes now and I can say that they are going to take over the All Mountain world. They are just soo good and it's propelled by a wave of energy that is supplying amazing forks and tires.

    The real bullseye for 650b (at least for 2013) is 5-6" bikes. At those travel levels, 29ers are just not that good. A 6" 29er with big tires is not awesome. A 650b bike at in that category is agile, capable and fun.

    29ers will continue to dominate hardtails and short travel xc bikes. They are really good in that category.

    26ers will hang on for sizing and big travel legacy reasons so they won't go away. There will be minimal growth however.

    In the future, many will own a 29er hardtail and a 650b All Mountain bike. Both will be awesome and the ride handling transition between them will be manageable.

    The only real issue will be supply. These small/medium companies will not be able to make them fast enough for 2013. And I don't think there will be any opportunity to test ride.

    The huge bike companies will jump on board (i hope) but they need time. They need time to do carbon fiber molds and make their own wheels and tires.

    fc

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I've ridden many of these all mountain 650b bikes now and I can say that they are going to take over the All Mountain world. They are just soo good and it's propelled by a wave of energy that is supplying amazing forks and tires.

    The real bullseye for 650b (at least for 2013) is 5-6" bikes. At those travel levels, 29ers are just not that good. A 6" 29er with big tires is not awesome. A 650b bike at in that category is agile, capable and fun.

    29ers will continue to dominate hardtails and short travel xc bikes. They are really good in that category.

    26ers will hang on for sizing and big travel legacy reasons so they won't go away. There will be minimal growth however.

    In the future, many will own a 29er hardtail and a 650b All Mountain bike. Both will be awesome and the ride handling transition between them will be manageable.

    The only real issue will be supply. These small/medium companies will not be able to make them fast enough for 2013. And I don't think there will be any opportunity to test ride.

    The huge bike companies will jump on board (i hope) but they need time. They need time to do carbon fiber molds and make their own wheels and tires.

    fc
    Now I need your advice. I can't make up my mind for the last 2 months.
    Should I build a 650b TRc (got the frame in SC sale) or should sell it, wait and get a 650b dedicated frame?
    I know you have ridden a TRc in 650b for awhile, so what would Francis do?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The Sight is 29.6 lbs bone stock without pedals. It has a chain an MRP chain guide and a Reverb dropping post and Hans Dampf tires.

    I changed the tires, saddle, cogset and got it down to 28 lbs.

    My son is 5'5" and I'm 5'8". It fits me perfect and it's just a hair big for him.
    Thanks for the reply.
    Interesting. So I guess the medium would fit me (even though I have unusually long legs and a short torso for a male )
    'eagerly anticipating the article.

    edit: FWIW that's a pound heavier than Norco's "target" weight
    Last edited by r1Gel; 11-02-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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  19. #69
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    2013 RM Altitude. Very curious what thoughts are as this may be a strong consideration from local bike shop for my son. Look forward to the comparisons

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Now I need your advice. I can't make up my mind for the last 2 months.
    Should I build a 650b TRc (got the frame in SC sale) or should sell it, wait and get a 650b dedicated frame?
    I know you have ridden a TRc in 650b for awhile, so what would Francis do?
    If I were you, I would give it a shot. You already have the frame, you can get some pretty decent wheel sets in the classifieds from time to time (I would jump on those crests/chris king hubs if I were you), the rest of the components are the same for both wheel sizes. Building and riding the TRc will let you better understand what exactly you want from the new wave of (not inexpensive) 650b trail/AM bikes IMO.

  21. #71
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    Curious why you are testing the last generation of the Jamis 650b platform....the frame is completely redesigned for 2013 and is supposed to be substantially stiffer (laterally) while also shedding a little weight.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    I might suggest including a well reputed 26" AM/trailbike in the shootout (sooo MBA) as a control.
    That's a really good idea. Also, how about a Genius 900 or other similar 29'er,?


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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Jamis, intense, norco in house.

    Scott, Rocky Mountain, khs coming.

    Turner is being redesigned and due in Dec.

    When you say redesigned for the Turner what are you referencing? The build kit or the geometry?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbrain View Post
    When you say redesigned for the Turner what are you referencing? The build kit or the geometry?
    BB height. Proto's were 12.75" and the new ones will be 13"

    Not gonna see many Turner Burners sold in New England It's a different world here and closer to 14" would be better
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  25. #75
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    I need a lot of popcorn to see this shootout.

    I have my heart set on the carbine 27.5 But I love free market this is true American.

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