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  1. #1
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    A Sign of Things to Come LOL

    Yesterday while riding my favorite trail, on my 1988 cutting edge technology, Condor with full Tange Prestige tubed, lugged framed MTB, I heard a strange whirring sound as four Millennials in full Tour de France team kit LOL, riding on super fat tired e-mtb's( I suspect 650b++) sped by laughing at the old guy on the ancient bike from the dawn of time. As fat as the tires were on their bikes, they probably need a motor to power the heavy wheels!! The next thing will be e-bike races to see who has the fastest e-bike, not who is the fastest rider! After they passed me I was greatly amused for the rest of the day.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A Sign of Things to Come LOL-img_20150513_163458.jpg  


  2. #2
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    i say carry on with your pride & joy tubed/lugged beauty, alas, yes quite sad of what lies ahead millennials and all the motorscooters.
    "ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK"

  3. #3
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    I agree. I'd rather have a old school full rigid than an ebike. If I want a motor on a bike, it's going to be an actual motorcycle.

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  4. #4
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    The thing to come is more old curmudgeons complaining and kids on their lawn?

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    Greetings One Pivot, was not complaining, just find Snowflakes amusing.
    Regards

  6. #6
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    I don't I've ever seen a millennial riding an E-Moto. The only ones I see are the Baby Boomers...

  7. #7
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    I remember my first MTB. Bought it new for about $150.
    Suspension... what's that?
    Quick release? nah....
    Huge triple front, 7 speed rear cog 12-28... the best of the world.
    Carbon? Aluminum? NO! Pure steel!
    And I rode perfectly, passing guys with $1,000's bikes.

    When I was able to, I built a MTB at my capabilities and likes. I was really happy and then comes this guy and says: "soon you won't want that bike". I asked him about what, and he just said "you'll see". 10 years later and still using that bike, I still don't find what he was talking about.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sconda View Post
    I agree. I'd rather have a old school full rigid than an ebike.
    Or a tricycle.

  9. #9
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    As I posted somewhere else, I don't really get why the hate towards the e-bikes.

    It's a good option for someone who is not as fit, but want to ride anyway. Perhaps a friend who had a fracture and didn't recover completely, or the older guy who doesn't really care for the extra-help and mocking as long as he can share rides with his pals.

    Of course, if you have a motor in your bike don't brag about being faster than me. Needless to say, don't enter a competition with a hidden motor.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Or a tricycle.
    Or an e-tricyle.....oh snap. I think we might be on to something!

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by patico_cr View Post
    As I posted somewhere else, I don't really get why the hate towards the e-bikes.

    It's a good option for someone who is not as fit, but want to ride anyway. Perhaps a friend who had a fracture and didn't recover completely, or the older guy who doesn't really care for the extra-help and mocking as long as he can share rides with his pals.

    Of course, if you have a motor in your bike don't brag about being faster than me. Needless to say, don't enter a competition with a hidden motor.
    Mountain bikers hate ebikers for literally the exact same reason the Sierra club and other hiker groups hate mountain bikers.

    Some people just feel entitled to the outdoors and don't think others should be able to enjoy it in a different manner than they do.

  12. #12
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    I was passed by a few e-bikes at my last race but only realised it afterwards.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Some people just feel entitled to the outdoors and don't think others should be able to enjoy it in a different manner than they do.
    True. I hate other people.

  14. #14
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    Kitted out on e-bikes... haha, golden.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Mountain bikers hate ebikers for literally the exact same reason the Sierra club and other hiker groups hate mountain bikers.

    Some people just feel entitled to the outdoors and don't think others should be able to enjoy it in a different manner than they do.
    No, i think it has to do with them riding at dangerous speeds and ruining trails/resulting in trail closings.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker View Post
    No, i think it has to do with them riding at dangerous speeds and ruining trails/resulting in trail closings.
    Again, thats literally the *exact* reason/excuse the other groups have used to ban normal mountain biking. I mean word for word, the exact same.

  17. #17
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    An e-bike is NOT a bicycle. What the hell is the argument here?
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Mountain bikers hate ebikers for literally the exact same reason the Sierra club and other hiker groups hate mountain bikers.

    Some people just feel entitled to the outdoors and don't think others should be able to enjoy it in a different manner than they do.
    Weird, almost sounds like the internet.

  19. #19
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    No fan of ebikes (or kitted out people on trails) but I recently read an article that touted their benefits for getting wounded warriors and other disabled folks on the trail. toward that end I welcome them. For the able? Not so much.
    What, me hurry?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Again, thats literally the *exact* reason/excuse the other groups have used to ban normal mountain biking. I mean word for word, the exact same.
    Or maybe there is a fundamental difference/distinction between a human powers and artificially powered machine both in terms of types of use and consequences. Or, should be just start letting motocross run on our trails?
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  21. #21
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    The only e-bikes that are allowed on our trails are e-assist,
    Last edited by NordieBoy; 06-13-2017 at 11:16 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    The only bikes that are allowed on our trails are e-assist, <250w, <25kph.
    I hope that's a typo, or it really sucks to be you.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    I hope that's a typo, or it really sucks to be you.
    Ya, that's gotta suck, human powered isn't allowed anymore

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    The thing to come is more old curmudgeons complaining and kids on their lawn?
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Notched View Post
    I don't I've ever seen a millennial riding an E-Moto. The only ones I see are the Baby Boomers...
    The target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Mountain bikers hate ebikers for literally the exact same reason the Sierra club and other hiker groups hate mountain bikers.

    Some people just feel entitled to the outdoors and don't think others should be able to enjoy it in a different manner than they do.
    Yep, just like the people on horseback who think bikes shouldn't be on trail (I also have a horse).

    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Again, thats literally the *exact* reason/excuse the other groups have used to ban normal mountain biking. I mean word for word, the exact same.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    Weird, almost sounds like the internet.
    :laughing

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac View Post
    No fan of ebikes (or kitted out people on trails) but I recently read an article that touted their benefits for getting wounded warriors and other disabled folks on the trail. toward that end I welcome them. For the able? Not so much.
    From my experience, people want to be all thankful to veterans until it is inconvenient for them. As a veteran who road rides, and gets harassed by drivers constantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker View Post
    Or maybe there is a fundamental difference/distinction between a human powers and artificially powered machine both in terms of types of use and consequences. Or, should be just start letting motocross run on our trails?
    Ha, kind of the feeling I get when I see lazy cyclists riding when I am out on a training run (I am also an ultra runner).

  25. #25
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    I see nothing wrong with ebikes themselves. It's already been mentioned they're of great benefit to those who otherwise may not be able to enjoy two wheel fun. It's also been mentioned that horse riders are against Mt bikers who are against backpackers who are against, oh heck.... ENOUGH!!
    It's when one person out of any specific group makes them self look like the lowest part of the digestive system that these flare-ups happen One bad apple syndrome. Come to terms with the fact that all are not like that one jerk and let people be
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  26. #26
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    The funniest thing about this thread is someone typing "LOL" to complain about millennials.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    Yesterday while riding my favorite trail, on my 1988 cutting edge technology, Condor with full Tange Prestige tubed, lugged framed MTB, I heard a strange whirring sound as four Millennials in full Tour de France team kit LOL, riding on super fat tired e-mtb's( I suspect 650b++) sped by laughing at the old guy on the ancient bike from the dawn of time. As fat as the tires were on their bikes, they probably need a motor to power the heavy wheels!! The next thing will be e-bike races to see who has the fastest e-bike, not who is the fastest rider! After they passed me I was greatly amused for the rest of the day.
    EBikes are to MTBs (and Old Guys) what video was to radio (let's hope not, or at least such a hell is only for Europe)

    https://youtu.be/Iwuy4hHO3YQ




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  28. #28
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    I was admiring the photo of the OP's bike before I read what he wrote. After I read it, I admired it some more.
    There are two types of people in this world:
    1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I was admiring the photo of the OP's bike before I read what he wrote. After I read it, I admired it some more.
    Ditto that
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    I hope that's a typo, or it really sucks to be you.
    No idea what your talking about ops:

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    EBikes are to MTBs (and Old Guys) what video was to radio (let's hope not, or at least such a hell is only for Europe)

    https://youtu.be/Iwuy4hHO3YQ




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    Yet radio is still with us while music videos channels don't even show music videos anymore. Maybe e-bikes are the washed up G-list reality show 'stars' of the near future?
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yet radio is still with us while music videos channels don't even show music videos anymore. Maybe e-bikes are the washed up G-list reality show 'stars' of the near future?
    I like that future much more!


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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Mountain bikers hate ebikers for literally the exact same reason the Sierra club and other hiker groups hate mountain bikers.

    Some people just feel entitled to the outdoors and don't think others should be able to enjoy it in a different manner than they do.

    If that logic is followed to it's end then what shouldn't be allowed on trails? Why shouldn't owners of D-12 dozers and WW2 surplus tanks be allowed to enjoy the backcountry on their machines?

    By allowing everyone equal access you deny enjoyment for others, thus the wisdom of appropriate restrictions (imho). I don't see it as entitlement, only fair play and I for one am grateful there are still some places left where only boots and native residents (wildlife) are allowed.
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  34. #34
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    Op, im certain they were not millenials as they are the most lazy people on earth. I know, i own one and shes 17. Even if fhe bike was rocket powered they'd still stay indoors to watch videos of people playing video games. I dont get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    Op, im certain they were not millenials as they are the most lazy people on earth. I know, i own one and shes 17. Even if fhe bike was rocket powered they'd still stay indoors to watch videos of people playing video games. I dont get it.
    Not the kids I ride with regularly, nor my kid or most of his friends. Sure, they enjoy checking out videos and playing games sometimes (as do many of us), but they also DO plenty of real stuff.

    The problem is individual, not generational.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The problem is individual, not generational.
    I don't agree. Of course not everyone conforms to cultural generalisations but heck, I remember being a teenager. I remember what we did, how we lived. Kids today are fatter, lazier and do less stuff. No question.

  37. #37
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    Maybe we're doing a better job breeding/raising them in my neck of the woods then.
    I know lots of active, engaged and healthy kids.
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  38. #38
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    Any behavior common enough to be ascribed to culture will have multiple influences, and the local culture will matter just as much as broader pop culture consumed/shared by people of a certain age. I live in a town with a robust outdoor recreation culture. Millennials here are just as likely to be playing outdoors as any other generation. They might make different choices, but they're out there.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The problem is individual, not generational.
    I call bs on this. Outta her 6 main friends, 1 has a DL. My kid is involved in many things outside of school like guitar lessons, giving and receiving, and flipping pizzas, but when it comes to free time it's rot on the couch and get fat time. All the time. So good for u and your stepford life, lol.

  40. #40
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    When i was a kid u couldnt keep me in the house. I blame technology

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    When I was a kid you couldn't keep me in the house.
    Maybe they weren't trying too hard?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    ISo good for u and your stepford life, lol.
    Thanks.
    Sorry yours didn't work out as well.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    When i was a kid u couldnt keep me in the house. I blame technology
    No doubt, absolutely nothing going on at home except for potential chores! Lots of times we would ride our bikes to the bowling alley to meet friends and play pinball until we ran out of quarters, which was usually less than an hour. Then we would spend the rest of the day screwing around on our bikes.

    Todays youth have a lot more options than pinball and they never run out of "quarters".
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  44. #44
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    Why do you have to be old to appreciate a fine, rigid, steel bicycle?

    If I had more money, I'd have a finer one I'm sure. Although I'd opt for a mechanical dropper, 1x, and disc brakes. Any tire size would do, although I've finally gotten really comfortable with the wagon wheels.

    Also, if I had said money I'd have the bike custom built and do away with the long stem and high top tube of the vintage MTB.
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Not the kids I ride with regularly, nor my kid or most of his friends. Sure, they enjoy checking out videos and playing games sometimes (as do many of us), but they also DO plenty of real stuff.

    The problem is individual, not generational.
    Yes, I've seen what happens when active parents get, well, active with their kids. My nephew's kids are into skiing, both water and snow. Apparently they've gotten good. And they're in good shape, school sports, the whole shebang. It's not rocket surgery. Keeping up with Dad......Now Dad's keeping up with them
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'oiseau View Post
    Why do you have to be old to appreciate a fine, rigid, steel bicycle?

    If I had more money, I'd have a finer one I'm sure. Although I'd opt for a mechanical dropper, 1x, and disc brakes. Any tire size would do, although I've finally gotten really comfortable with the wagon wheels.

    Also, if I had said money I'd have the bike custom built and do away with the long stem and high top tube of the vintage MTB.
    That is a long stem! I'm guessing the bike is a bit small for the owner. Bet you'd lose the pedal cages as well.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    Yes, I've seen what happens when active parents get, well, active with their kids. My nephew's kids are into skiing, both water and snow. Apparently they've gotten good. And they're in good shape, school sports, the whole shebang. It's not rocket surgery. Keeping up with Dad......Now Dad's keeping up with them
    My 18 year old daughter LOVES being outdoors. We did a lot of hiking last weekend and she kept commenting how much she loves hiking. She goes trail running most days. My 15 year old son is more into electronics but we're getting up early tomorrow to go fly fishing, he said he will get up as early as I want to go.

    I've talked with some NPS rangers and they told me studies have shown that kids need to be reached by the 4th grade to really appreciate the outdoors and nature. They have a program where they bus in 4th graders for a field trip to a local national forest and they offer free annual passes to fourth graders (it's a parking pass for their parents).
    There are two types of people in this world:
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I've talked with some NPS rangers and they told me studies have shown that kids need to be reached by the 4th grade to really appreciate the outdoors and nature. They have a program where they bus in 4th graders for a field trip to a local national forest and they offer free annual passes to fourth graders (it's a parking pass for their parents).
    I was introduced to it before I can remember. Parents into camping, fishing, water skiing and had been ten years prior to me being born.
    Much of the trouble I see today is parents using social media as a baby sitter. Before that it was TV.
    In my day we had to build a fire to make breakfast. Had to make bike tires outa Model T inner tubes. Had to ride forty miles to school. Uphill both ways.
    And so it will keep going.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    That is a long stem! I'm guessing the bike is a bit small for the owner. Bet you'd lose the pedal cages as well.
    Yeah, you got my number... put those in the recycle bin please!

    I used to ride those things, and I thought they were awesome until I rode clipless, and then threw in some flats.


    I used to ride a frame size too small with those style bikes, so my stem was long. It was easier to control the biker overall though and get the weight where it needed to be. Everytime I rode the "correct" frame size, it felt like I was driving a dump truck. It's not the case with modern frames though. I'd love to take what I know about my fit and ride preferences and have a nice thin tube, high quality steel rigid custom built...
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    Much of the trouble I see today is parents using social media as a baby sitter. Before that it was TV.
    I actually have to suggest just chilling out around the house to my kid sometimes, particularly in the afternoons when he's doing the latchkey kid thing. Given his druthers, he'd be out on his dirt bike hanging wheelies and terrorizing the county all day every day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I actually have to suggest just chilling out around the house to my kid sometimes, particularly in the afternoons when he's doing the latchkey kid thing. Given his druthers, he'd be out on his dirt bike hanging wheelies and terrorizing the county all day every day.
    Sounds like me when I was a kid. Only I never grew up.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    Only I never grew up.
    It's wildly overrated.
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  53. #53
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    I like Skoda's bike.

  54. #54
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    I always hate the "kids these days" ********. I work with mostly boomers and all they want to do is sit around and complain about having to do their job (which they do poorly) and act like they are entitled to everything. I hear all about how lazy they are on the weekends and then I get to hear people complain about kids!

    Kids these days are following YOUR example. If you text and drive while speeding down the freeway, where do you think the kids get out from? I see just as many adults doing it as kids.

    Set the example, lead by example.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    I see just as many adults doing it as kids.
    You a millennial by chance?

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    "Kids these days!!" Every single generation hears it. Been going on as long as there have been kids. And days.
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  57. #57
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    Oh yeah
    Mm
    Still don't know what I was waiting for
    And my time was running wild
    A million dead-end streets and
    Every time I thought I'd got it made
    It seemed the taste was not so sweet
    So I turned myself to face me
    But I've never caught a glimpse
    Of how the others must see the faker
    I'm much too fast to take that test

    Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes...
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Oh yeah
    Mm
    Still don't know what I was waiting for
    And my time was running wild
    A million dead-end streets and
    Every time I thought I'd got it made
    It seemed the taste was not so sweet
    So I turned myself to face me
    But I've never caught a glimpse
    Of how the others must see the faker
    I'm much too fast to take that test

    Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes...
    Bowie has an answer to everything!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    Yesterday while riding my favorite trail, on my 1988 cutting edge technology, Condor with full Tange Prestige tubed, lugged framed MTB, I heard a strange whirring sound as four Millennials in full Tour de France team kit LOL, riding on super fat tired e-mtb's( I suspect 650b++) sped by laughing at the old guy on the ancient bike from the dawn of time. As fat as the tires were on their bikes, they probably need a motor to power the heavy wheels!! The next thing will be e-bike races to see who has the fastest e-bike, not who is the fastest rider! After they passed me I was greatly amused for the rest of the day.
    I am a millennial and i hate my generation. they are a bunch of faggots.
    This is my whip; its a mix of the old school and new as i am a borderline genx (83). I built this cuz it reminds me of the bmx i had when i was a kid minus the gears
    A Sign of Things to Come LOL-unnamed.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yet radio is still with us while music videos channels don't even show music videos anymore. Maybe e-bikes are the washed up G-list reality show 'stars' of the near future?
    There's probably truth here. People ride bikes for exercise. People ride dirt bikes to twist throttle and haul ass. Where does this e-bike really fit in? I kind of feel bad for kids thinking these are cool. Go get a nice long travel bike or a used yamaha.

  61. #61
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    I'll just unsub from this "kids these days" bitch fest. I just got home from a nice ride in the mountains, now I am going outside to spend time with the horses.

    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    You a millennial by chance?
    The definition is pretty loose, but no. Grew up on carbureted cars, using mail to communicate and send pictures to family, and somehow survived riding motorcycles around the neighborhood without a helmet (not that a '77 Kawasaki KM100 is very fast anyway...). At this stage in my life, I just don't care what generation I'm in now, the labeling is just ******** (which goes for other things too, not just generations). I used to care when I was a young kid in the military trying to prove myself, but not anymore. I'll ask my wife of 18 years when she gets home if I'm a millennial, she'll probably say "Yes, and a *****", I won't report back.

    Quote Originally Posted by 802spokestoke View Post
    People ride dirt bikes to twist throttle and haul ass.
    If you think riding a dirt bike is just twisting the throttle, then you haven't actually gone fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Pat Liquor View Post
    I am a millennial and i hate my generation. they are a bunch of faggots.
    This is my whip; its a mix of the old school and new as i am a borderline genx (83). I built this cuz it reminds me of the bmx i had when i was a kid minus the gears
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And I see you have a helper.............
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    If you think riding a dirt bike is just twisting the throttle, then you haven't actually gone fast.
    When in doubt, gas it.
    DAMN THE MUD, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    "Kids these days!!" Every single generation hears it. Been going on as long as there have been kids. And days.
    But things actually are different.

    I grew up in a house that faced a park. There would be kids playing football (soccer) on the park every evening it wasn't raining. Usually a lot of them. Sometimes two games going on at the same time. If there was snow on the ground there were multiple slides down the hill and dozens of kids playing on them until late into the evening.

    My mother stayed in that house until a few years ago so I've see the park often. The activity on the park tailed off and over the last ten to fifteen years you don't see any kids playing on it, ever. In fact, the council have put a footpath/cyclepath across it. There would have been a riot if they'd tried to do that when I was kid!

    In the UK there is no doubt about it. Kids do not play outside the way they did thirty, forty years ago.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    The funniest thing about this thread is someone typing "LOL" to complain about millennials.
    It may have been the context-

    "... in full Tour de France team kit LOL " (on e-bikes)

    OH WAIT ,,, You mean old curmudgeons using L O L .... haha I get it !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A Sign of Things to Come LOL-0jvzpjd.jpg  

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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I was admiring the photo of the OP's bike before I read what he wrote. After I read it, I admired it some more.
    +

    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    But things actually are different.

    I grew up in a house that faced a park. There would be kids playing football (soccer) on the park every evening it wasn't raining. Usually a lot of them. Sometimes two games going on at the same time. If there was snow on the ground there were multiple slides down the hill and dozens of kids playing on them until late into the evening.

    My mother stayed in that house until a few years ago so I've see the park often. The activity on the park tailed off and over the last ten to fifteen years you don't see any kids playing on it, ever. In fact, the council have put a footpath/cyclepath across it. There would have been a riot if they'd tried to do that when I was kid!

    In the UK there is no doubt about it. Kids do not play outside the way they did thirty, forty years ago.
    I have not researched it myself but see articles claiming child obesity rates have increased significantly. Kids playing video games and watching others talk and play video games, and eating junk food. I don't blame this on a generation's character/attitude, as parents also seem to have more sedentary jobs and lifestyles, too.

    I took my 8 year old, who uses his 45 minutes of TV time to watch what I consider to be these idiotic Youtube videos of people playing Minecraft (I do like Star HQ brothers playing Battlefront 2 and have watched that with him), camping a few weeks ago for first time. Was father/son event with over 100 in attendance. He loved it and wants to do it regularly, so this summer we are camping and biking more. When I do this stuff with him he easily forgets about video junk.

    When I grew up, here in states, baseball was still pretty popular and we all played in streets and parks. We even invented a version where we played the game with our fists and rubber balls at school because school outlawed hard balls, bats, and gloves. Now days kids who get into baseball enlist in these crazy expensive traveling teams, even at young age. These kids just aren't around to play outside and I think this $$$$ travel team concept is huge in other sports like Soccer here.


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    I have 3 kids ages 2, 4 and 5. the 4 and 5 year olds ride their bikes all over the place and the 2 year old can coast already on his balance bike. None of the 3 kids have had or will have training wheels, and I have discussed with my wife long ago that there will never be any video games in our home. I want my 4 year old son to get into BMX because he is an awesome rider (and i just dont want to spend all my free time at soccer or baseball fields because I personally hate team sports).

    Anyways, that being said, I think there are lots of millenials like myself who have seen the trends of todays youth and are raising our kids against that grain.

    However there are lots of scarier laws out there nowadays about leaving kids unsupervised at home and at parks and all that stuff. So you can blame millenials for not letting their kids do some of that fun stuff but really a finger needs to be pointed at the government for that stuff as well as all of the boomers who voted for their representatives and or supported all that legislation that makes it scarier to let your kids go play.

    So thats my take on it. Heres a picture of my kids "video games"A Sign of Things to Come LOL-kimg0626.jpg

  69. #69
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    With E-Bikes becoming popular, kids will eventually be able to download an app that allows them to go faster. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Pat Liquor View Post
    None of the 3 kids have had or will have training wheels, and I have discussed with my wife long ago that there will never be any video games in our home]
    Meh...I don't see the big deal about video games in moderation. It's an art form just like music and film IMHO. Maybe it's too much for some kids (parents really) to handle, but for a well-adjusted kid? BFD.

    My son has actually kind of fallen off the video games over the past couple years (just turned 13) but he used to like to play a good bit and was actually a self-taught 'modder' of certain games, and he enjoys making and editing videos of himself and his buddies riding. He learned to ride on training wheels and still somehow started stacking up BMX trophies when he was 4, and will happily teach just about any of us a thing or three about handling a bicycle. Or a quad or dirt bike for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    The activity on the park tailed off and over the last ten to fifteen years you don't see any kids playing on it, ever.
    They should build a skatepark there. All the ones around here are full of kids of all ages, all day long. Same thing with pump tracks.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Mountain bikers hate ebikers for literally the exact same reason the Sierra club and other hiker groups hate mountain bikers.
    Wrong.

    But to turn your argument around, this is the exact same reason why motorcycles and ATVs should be allowed on all trails.

    Or, why don't we just pave mtb trails? Otherwise, we are discriminating against road cyclists, right?

    Careful what you advocate for - you may be unknowingly creating the perfect argument to allow all sorts of other things you may not want to see.

    I think it's perfectly ok to have trails that only allow certain uses. As an avid mtn biker, I think it's ok that some trails are only for foot traffic, others are multi-use, some are dedicated mtb trails, and that some trails (and areas) are non-motorized use only. Depending on the situation, it sometimes just makes sense, and if you open the door to every mode of travel on every trail, out of some naive sense of egalitarianism, you are going to create a management nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    An e-bike is NOT a bicycle. What the hell is the argument here?
    This.

    If it's a multi-use trail that allows motorized use, then fine. Otherwise, no.
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    I hate to say this but there WILL be some posters here who WILL get too old or damaged to ride anything but an e-bike.
    While I agree for the most part to having trails dedicated to some specific things, that in and of itself could cause management dilemmas for those in gov't who shouldn't be in a management position.
    What ever happened to everybody sharing space and having consideration for others? Oh yeah, it never really existed among ALL people. Always a bad apple in every bushel.
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    While I agree for the most part to having trails dedicated to some specific things, that in and of itself could cause management dilemmas for those in gov't who shouldn't be in a management position.
    With all due respect, saying "there may be some people in land mgmt. who shouldn't be making mgmt. decisions" is an entirely separate, and largely speculative, issue.

    I've known a lot of people involved in land management in my lifetime. The vast majority of them have an infinitely greater grasp of the complexities and balances involved in land mgmt decisions than any desktop jockey who is only advocating for their own, self-interested usage.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patico_cr View Post
    As I posted somewhere else, I don't really get why the hate towards the e-bikes.

    It's a good option for someone who is not as fit, but want to ride anyway. Perhaps a friend who had a fracture and didn't recover completely, or the older guy who doesn't really care for the extra-help and mocking as long as he can share rides with his pals.

    Of course, if you have a motor in your bike don't brag about being faster than me. Needless to say, don't enter a competition with a hidden motor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac View Post
    No fan of ebikes (or kitted out people on trails) but I recently read an article that touted their benefits for getting wounded warriors and other disabled folks on the trail. toward that end I welcome them. For the able? Not so much.
    I see this get brought up by e-bike advocates. E-bikes do help those physically impaired get out and ride. And that is great. Martyn Ashton (of Road Bike Party), once a very talented rider, is paralyzed. E-bike helped him get back out and ride. It's great to see him smile again.

    However, the issue I have with them is on the lack of regulation. Some precincts consider them to be motorized. Some say they're not, therefore allowed on non-motorized trails. What's the problem with that? To me, safety. An 80-year old grandpa getting out on the trails is great. Good for them. However, putting someone physically incapable of handling a regular bike, and fitting them on a bike with more power, speed, and weight sounds like a recipe for disaster. I ride and hike on the local trails with my kids. I see other kids and families on these trails quite a bit. Do I want people who aren't physically capable, mentally alert, or experienced on a fast and heavy bike on the same trail? Nope, not me.

    Just like the ATV/OHV's, clearly define them for what they are--a motorized vehicle. They can make classes, if needed. Then designate trails for that use. But this isn't happening now, and meanwhile, I'm seeing more and more e-bikes on trails. Again, I'm ok with e-bikes. But not ok with the lack of regulation.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    They should build a skatepark there. All the ones around here are full of kids of all ages, all day long. Same thing with pump tracks.
    The built loads of skate parks in the eighties and most of them ended up getting ripped out again after the fad had passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    I hate to say this but there WILL be some posters here who WILL get too old or damaged to ride anything but an e-bike....What ever happened to everybody sharing space?....
    Could someone else explain it to him? Again! Maybe try magnetic letters...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    The built loads of skate parks in the eighties and most of them ended up getting ripped out again after the fad had passed...
    Still lots of kids riding BMX, boards and now scooters here. Hell, people even riding MTBs in them.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Still lots of kids riding BMX, boards and now scooters here. Hell, people even riding MTBs in them.
    Here too. Our city's skate park is always busy.

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    E-bikes don't really bother me as long as they're kept as a separate classification from mountain bikes as far as trail access. I wouldn't go out of my way to argue against them locally, but I also wouldn't want to have to be forced to defend them in order to keep my bicycle access (we went through a lot getting trails approved and built- I don't want ever want to sit in the town hall and have to entertain bitter old environmentalists' accusations of children being run over and stream trout dying for years on end ever again).

    I know lots of trails they'd be fine on, as well as some they wouldn't, based mainly on how the MTB access situation is locally. If e-bikers are smart and emulate what's worked for mountain bikers (and not what hasn't), no reason they couldn't develop into a solid user group with good access. Can't just expect a blanket pass right off the bat though; it takes some work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Here too. Our city's skate park is always busy.
    It's key to have a decent park too. It's a tough thing to do well, specially for smaller towns. A well laid out concrete or well built steel/wood park doesn't come cheap. Shame, cuz we've had a lot of great times at them. Used to do road trips all around New England with my son hitting parks and BMX tracks and DH mountains and camping out constantly.

    We're also lucky enough to have a good park in easy driving distance. Spent a lot of time there (and other parks) when my boy was a little younger and hadn't started in with the motors yet. Gotta say, the kids I've met in skate parks and DJ/DH/BMX/moto scenes are primarily responsible for me having a pretty good attitude about them (I'm 50 this year fwiw). There are tons of good and active kids and young adults around if you know where to look.

    One of the other park dads threw this together awhile back, mostly from the semi-local haunt. The kids are alright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    E-bikes don't really bother me as long as they're kept as a separate classification from mountain bikes as far as trail access. I wouldn't go out of my way to argue against them locally, but I also wouldn't want to have to be forced to defend them in order to keep my bicycle access
    Making too much sense for the internets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    Wrong.

    But to turn your argument around, this is the exact same reason why motorcycles and ATVs should be allowed on all trails.

    Or, why don't we just pave mtb trails? Otherwise, we are discriminating against road cyclists, right?

    Careful what you advocate for - you may be unknowingly creating the perfect argument to allow all sorts of other things you may not want to see.

    I think it's perfectly ok to have trails that only allow certain uses. As an avid mtn biker, I think it's ok that some trails are only for foot traffic, others are multi-use, some are dedicated mtb trails, and that some trails (and areas) are non-motorized use only. Depending on the situation, it sometimes just makes sense, and if you open the door to every mode of travel on every trail, out of some naive sense of egalitarianism, you are going to create a management nightmare.



    This.

    If it's a multi-use trail that allows motorized use, then fine. Otherwise, no.
    We can and have provided land impact studies. We do less damage than horses. We've proved it.

    Yes, it's an open door. Prove you do less damage than horses and I do agree you should be granted access!

    Horses were granted access so, so long ago that I feel it's a historical benchmark for acceptable use. Whatever new toy anyone comes up with, it should be judged against a horse for damage to the land.
    I
    I know, I know,. But ebikes have motors! Find one that can dig trenches like a dirt bike and I'll agree it shouldn't have access based on the damage relative to a horse. As it sits now, a standard bike can go just as fast or faster for top speed, ebikes just help out on the flats and climbs... Which gives mountain bikers a sense of ebikers not "earning" it, which is the classic hiker argument.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    We can and have provided land impact studies. We do less damage than horses. We've proved it.
    The imprint left on the ground isn't the only way something can impact a trail.

    I don't think that mountain bikers in general hate e-bikers, or that Sierra clubbers hate mountain bikers, at least that hasn't been my experience. I go to the mountains to escape people but I don't hate people.
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    In the end it's a case of everybody thinking their 'toy' is the only one that should be allowed and all others should be eliminated. I like the idea of having trails designated for specific uses, as much for safety as anything. Having hikers use the same trail as dirt bikes equals potential for someone getting hurt. Stems from the same lack of consideration for others showcased in the first sentence.
    And round and round it goes.
    I just play by the CYA rule while watching for idiots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    We can and have provided land impact studies. We do less damage than horses. We've proved it.

    Yes, it's an open door. Prove you do less damage than horses and I do agree you should be granted access!

    Horses were granted access so, so long ago that I feel it's a historical benchmark for acceptable use. Whatever new toy anyone comes up with, it should be judged against a horse for damage to the land.

    I know, I know,. But ebikes have motors! Find one that can dig trenches like a dirt bike and I'll agree it shouldn't have access based on the damage relative to a horse. As it sits now, a standard bike can go just as fast or faster for top speed, ebikes just help out on the flats and climbs... Which gives mountain bikers a sense of ebikers not "earning" it, which is the classic hiker argument.

    Impact studies. Horses. Mountain bikers thinking e-bikers aren't "earning it."

    Congrats - you've addressed not just one, but three things I never even brought up. Your debate skills are exemplary, good sir.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    I like the idea of having trails designated for specific uses, as much for safety as anything.
    Agreed. I don't think it's a good idea to have vehicles and people traveling at wildly different speeds on the same trail.

    Also, I disagree about eBikes not damaging trails. I think that depends on the trail. About a month ago I was at a local trail centre called Gletress and on the climb up to the Spooky Wood decent I noticed big ruts on some of the corners, places where I've not seen ruts before and not where you would expect to see them. I can't prove it, but I reckon the only thing that could've caused them is eBikes. Pedal bikes just can't put down the torque required to move dirt like that while climbing up hill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    In the end it's a case of everybody thinking their 'toy' is the only one that should be allowed and all others should be eliminated.
    I feel bad for people that limit themselves only one toy.
    No wonder they're get all pissy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    In the end it's a case of everybody thinking their 'toy' is the only one that should be allowed and all others should be eliminated.
    I think I missed the post where someone advocated for eliminating all wheeled conveyances besides the mountain bike, (perhaps as well as horses,) but I hope you can give me a link to it, cause it sounds like a good read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    E-bikes don't really bother me as long as they're kept as a separate classification from mountain bikes as far as trail access. I wouldn't go out of my way to argue against them locally, but I also wouldn't want to have to be forced to defend them in order to keep my bicycle access (we went through a lot getting trails approved and built- I don't want ever want to sit in the town hall and have to entertain bitter old environmentalists' accusations of children being run over and stream trout dying for years on end ever again).

    I know lots of trails they'd be fine on, as well as some they wouldn't, based mainly on how the MTB access situation is locally. If e-bikers are smart and emulate what's worked for mountain bikers (and not what hasn't), no reason they couldn't develop into a solid user group with good access. Can't just expect a blanket pass right off the bat though; it takes some work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    We can and have provided land impact studies. We do less damage than horses. We've proved it.

    Yes, it's an open door. Prove you do less damage than horses and I do agree you should be granted access!

    Horses were granted access so, so long ago that I feel it's a historical benchmark for acceptable use. Whatever new toy anyone comes up with, it should be judged against a horse for damage to the land.
    I
    I know, I know,. But ebikes have motors! Find one that can dig trenches like a dirt bike and I'll agree it shouldn't have access based on the damage relative to a horse. As it sits now, a standard bike can go just as fast or faster for top speed, ebikes just help out on the flats and climbs... Which gives mountain bikers a sense of ebikers not "earning" it, which is the classic hiker argument.
    The potential damage caused by an e-bike doesn't even compare with a motorcycle or ATV. An heavy e-bike is 100 lbs maybe, a motorcycle or ATV can easily get over 500-600 lbs. That places a lot of pressure on the dirt and any rocks underneath their wide tires. That ends up crushing certain rocks and leaving them sharp on the ends. And THAT leads to blown tires and tubes on mountain bikes. It happened to me last year. The puncture was so bad from a chipped rock that the air went out in less than 30 seconds. A motorcycle had been on the trail earlier. Cause and effect. E-bikes may be despised because of the principle of it, but they don't impact the environment like an internal combustion bike/ATV.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    The potential damage caused by an e-bike doesn't even compare with a motorcycle or ATV. An heavy e-bike is 100 lbs maybe, a motorcycle or ATV can easily get over 500-600 lbs. That places a lot of pressure on the dirt and any rocks underneath their wide tires. That ends up crushing certain rocks and leaving them sharp on the ends. And THAT leads to blown tires and tubes on mountain bikes. It happened to me last year. The puncture was so bad from a chipped rock that the air went out in less than 30 seconds. A motorcycle had been on the trail earlier. Cause and effect. E-bikes may be despised because of the principle of it, but they don't impact the environment like an internal combustion bike/ATV.
    True, but I ride a 250 pound 250cc dirt bike and those same chipped rocks will puncture dirt bike tires too! Ask me know I know...

  92. #92
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    Just rode the trails in Bentonville and stopped to talk to a city policeman who was riding an eBike at Slaughter Pen. Seems like a good tool for law enforcement and rescue personnel, along with those whose disabilities prevent them from using regular bikes.
    What, me hurry?

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