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  1. #1
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    Drivetrain Question...

    So my Prophet are it's rear derailleur on a ride Thursday afternoon. In the process of ordering parts, but need some clarification from those of you who are much more knowledgeable than I.

    I'm replacing an XT rd-m786 (beleive a med cage) with a traditional 11-36t 10 SPD. I want to upgrade to the Sunrace 11-42t 10spd. Do I need a long cage rd-m786 to get over that taller 42? Some people are recommendeding the XT m8000 11spd as an option as well!?!? I'm running a race face NW 30t, but also have a 32 and 34 sitting in my tool case. Planning to buy a new chain as well... assume a traditional shimano 10spd chain will do the job? Also, what are the chances I'll need a Goat Link to make it work?

    Thanks in advance!

    Pic for reference...

    20180201_163228 by k2blt, on Flickr

    20180201_160937_001 by k2blt, on Flickr

  2. #2
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    You will be fine running a GS cage length. Though I'm on XTR, a GS length covers an 11-46T just fine so you should be golden. As for M8000? Yeah, you could run it but you're looking at replacing cassette, chain, RD, and Shifters to do it.

    Also, after looking at that carnage, I'd strongly suggest buying a new derailleur hanger as your's is likely tweaked.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    You will be fine running a GS cage length. Though I'm on XTR, a GS length covers an 11-46T just fine so you should be golden. As for M8000? Yeah, you could run it but you're looking at replacing cassette, chain, RD, and Shifters to do it.

    Also, after looking at that carnage, I'd strongly suggest buying a new derailleur hanger as your's is likely tweaked.
    Thanks for the info @Oh My Sack! Parts ordered. As it'll likely become my backup bike next year when I wrap up grad school, the xt will suffice for the next 12 months. Good call on the derailleur hanger. Just checked and it's done... Hairline crack on the frame side.

  4. #4
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    Couldn't sort the GS cage... Jockey cog was rubbing the 42t. Brought it to a local shop and they're ordering up a Wolf Tooth Goat Link. Figure that'll allow the clearance I need.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    You will be fine running a GS cage length. Though I'm on XTR, a GS length covers an 11-46T just fine so you should be golden. As for M8000? Yeah, you could run it but you're looking at replacing cassette, chain, RD, and Shifters to do it.

    Also, after looking at that carnage, I'd strongly suggest buying a new derailleur hanger as your's is likely tweaked.
    New hanger, yes. But M8000/M7000 works just fine on 10spd. No extra stuff necessary.

    edit: looks like you got the goatlink. That'll work, too.

  6. #6
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    A medium-cage M8000 wouldnít clear a 42t cog? Thatís really weird. Iíve run an M8000 GS with an 11-46 no problem (itís even supported by Shimano). You shouldnít need a Goatlink. Did you tighten up the B-tension screw enough?

    Sorry if Iím misunderstanding what RD youíre using...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwa72 View Post
    A medium-cage M8000 wouldnít clear a 42t cog? Thatís really weird. Iíve run an M8000 GS with an 11-46 no problem (itís even supported by Shimano). You shouldnít need a Goatlink. Did you tighten up the B-tension screw enough?

    Sorry if Iím misunderstanding what RD youíre using...
    He's on 10spd, so he bought the 780 series stuff. Needs a mod like the goatlink to make it.

  8. #8
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    I was told I'd need a new shifter and chain to run the m8000 so I opted for the rd-m786. Sounds like I should've just bolted on the m8000!?!?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2blt View Post
    I was told I'd need a new shifter and chain to run the m8000 so I opted for the rd-m786. Sounds like I should've just bolted on the m8000!?!?
    If you want to go 11-speed, then yup - shifter, chain, cassette, derailleur. If you're keeping your 10-speed, then the Goatlink and wide-range cassette should work. You'd probably also want a derailleur cage with an offset upper pulley wheel to make 10-speed work even better, but by the time you do that, you might as well go 11-speed.

    Here's another cage besides the One-Up one I linked to above.

  10. #10
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    Thanks! This bike will become my back up next Fall. Just trying to sort it for the Spring & Summer. Waiting on the Goat Link at the moment and I'll go from there.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwa72 View Post
    If you want to go 11-speed, then yup - shifter, chain, cassette, derailleur. If you're keeping your 10-speed, then the Goatlink and wide-range cassette should work. You'd probably also want a derailleur cage with an offset upper pulley wheel to make 10-speed work even better, but by the time you do that, you might as well go 11-speed.

    Here's another cage besides the One-Up one I linked to above.
    Or nope. With Shimano, you can just keep 10spd everything and use an 11spd rear derailleur for a wider range 10spd cassette. Dunno about SRAM cross-compatibility.

    Shimano also has a Deore level 10spd that has a wider range, but it's functionally identical to the 11spd stuff, so I don't know why anyone would bother.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Or nope. With Shimano, you can just keep 10spd everything and use an 11spd rear derailleur for a wider range 10spd cassette. Dunno about SRAM cross-compatibility.

    Shimano also has a Deore level 10spd that has a wider range, but it's functionally identical to the 11spd stuff, so I don't know why anyone would bother.
    Didn't know 10-speed shifters were compatible with an 11-speed rear derailleur. If so, sorry about the misinformation.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Or nope. With Shimano, you can just keep 10spd everything and use an 11spd rear derailleur for a wider range 10spd cassette. Dunno about SRAM cross-compatibility.

    Shimano also has a Deore level 10spd that has a wider range, but it's functionally identical to the 11spd stuff, so I don't know why anyone would bother.
    Are you sure? This article shows a different pull ratios and derailleur ratios between Shimano 10 and 11 speed MTB shifters and derailleurs: http://blog.artscyclery.com/science-...compatibility/. Never tried it myself and plan to go there soon myself, so want to confirm.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkman999 View Post
    Are you sure? This article shows a different pull ratios and derailleur ratios between Shimano 10 and 11 speed MTB shifters and derailleurs: Art's Cyclery Blog ¬Ľ Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility. Never tried it myself and plan to go there soon myself, so want to confirm.


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    My guess is that it will work...but not optimally since the pull ratios are a little different. I've always used matching shifters and derailleurs to avoid chasing down compatibility issues. FWIW Shimano MTB cassettes and SRAM road/MTB cassettes are generally interchangeable (NOT true of Shimano 11-speed road cassettes) so those shouldn't present a problem.

    If you really want to go nuts, you could get yourself an XD driver for your rear hub, run a 10-42 SRAM 11-speed cassette (or, better yet, an 9-46 e*thirteen cassette) and get Eagle range with a Shimano 11-speed shifter/derailleur. I run a M8000 GS derailleur and M8000 shifter with the e*thirteen cassette on my SC Chameleon and it works GREAT.

    If you already have the M8000 derailleur you might as well avoid any kludges and cough up the extra $120 (M8000 shifter, M8000 11-46 cassette, and 11-speed chain) to make everything 11-speed. Not to mention you won't have to dick around with a Goatlink which itself is a bit of a kludge. IMHO, of course.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkman999 View Post
    Are you sure? This article shows a different pull ratios and derailleur ratios between Shimano 10 and 11 speed MTB shifters and derailleurs: Art's Cyclery Blog ¬Ľ Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility. Never tried it myself and plan to go there soon myself, so want to confirm.
    Positive. I've been using the Sunrace/M7000 combo for about a year now and plenty of others have as well. It's just as smooth and fast as the XT RD/SLX cassette combo it replaced. Pull ratios are nearly identical and so close that it doesn't matter (Shimano's dirty little secret they don't want getting out). No need for any extras. No issues with backpedaling like often is the case with 11spd either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schwa72 View Post
    My guess is that it will work...but not optimally since the pull ratios are a little different. I've always used matching shifters and derailleurs to avoid chasing down compatibility issues. FWIW Shimano MTB cassettes and SRAM road/MTB cassettes are generally interchangeable (NOT true of Shimano 11-speed road cassettes) so those shouldn't present a problem.
    Nope. Works wonderfully with zero compatibility issues, unlike many other franken-combos. I can't speak to mixing road/MTB stuff...this is simple, which I like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schwa72 View Post
    If you really want to go nuts, you could get yourself an XD driver for your rear hub, run a 10-42 SRAM 11-speed cassette (or, better yet, an 9-46 e*thirteen cassette) and get Eagle range with a Shimano 11-speed shifter/derailleur. I run a M8000 GS derailleur and M8000 shifter with the e*thirteen cassette on my SC Chameleon and it works GREAT.
    If you're buying all that, it's time for a different bike IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schwa72 View Post
    If you already have the M8000 derailleur you might as well avoid any kludges and cough up the extra $120 (M8000 shifter, M8000 11-46 cassette, and 11-speed chain) to make everything 11-speed. Not to mention you won't have to dick around with a Goatlink which itself is a bit of a kludge. IMHO, of course.
    As mentioned, no need. Check this thread...several others confirmed it works with other component levels with no probs. The guy just forgot a spacer on the cassette or there wouldn't have been an issue.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Positive. I've been using the Sunrace/M7000 combo for about a year now and plenty of others have as well. It's just as smooth and fast as the XT RD/SLX cassette combo it replaced. Pull ratios are nearly identical and so close that it doesn't matter (Shimano's dirty little secret they don't want getting out). No need for any extras. No issues with backpedaling like often is the case with 11spd either.
    Thanks, good to know!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    If you're buying all that, it's time for a different bike IMO.
    Not really. I was converting a basically brand-new 3x9 2014 SC Chameleon to 1x11. I got an XD freehub body for my Mavic wheelset, M8000 rear derailleur, M8000 shifter, M8000 1x crank, 11-speed chain, and e*thirteen cassette all in for less than $500. Why in the world would I buy a new bike instead? The frame alone on this bike was $750.

    Of course I also did three other 1x conversions (Maverick Durance to GX Eagle, SC Tallboy LTc to X01 Eagle, and Niner RLT9 to Force 1) plus a new Lynskey Ridgeline 29 HT X01 Eagle build, so I admit half the fun is doing the full 1x conversions in the first place.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwa72 View Post
    Not really. I was converting a basically brand-new 3x9 2014 SC Chameleon to 1x11. I got an XD freehub body for my Mavic wheelset, M8000 rear derailleur, M8000 shifter, M8000 1x crank, 11-speed chain, and e*thirteen cassette all in for less than $500. Why in the world would I buy a new bike instead? The frame alone on this bike was $750.

    Of course I also did three other 1x conversions (Maverick Durance to GX Eagle, SC Tallboy LTc to X01 Eagle, and Niner RLT9 to Force 1) plus a new Lynskey Ridgeline 29 HT X01 Eagle build, so I admit half the fun is doing the full 1x conversions in the first place.
    Clearly our opinions differ, and that's OK. At least we enjoy working on and riding bikes, so it's all good.

  19. #19
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    20180303_173503 by k2blt, on Flickr

    Goat Link on and all sorted.

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