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  1. #401
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    Well I'm about to upset my own thread now... But since it's my daggum thread, I'm gonna do it.

    Until I rode this bike, I've never had the desire to ride anything by my 26" AMHT. My terrain is peppered with chunk, sandstone and limestone Cliff drops, monster trucking, baby heads... General chunk.

    I've been considering the Stache for a while now, so I didn't take this step blindly.

    It's the best trail bike I've ever ridden. Small drops up to 3 feet are confident and cake, log rides to wheelie drops are a no brainer with all that meaty traction, small doubles, tables, etc... It flies great!

    For now, I've got no intention of selling my 26, but it will get less love.

    26? What's the point??!!-img_20170812_164259887-picsay.jpg
    26? What's the point??!!-img_20170812_164312302-picsay.jpg

  2. #402
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    Man, you've gone so far of topic it's crazy!!!!!
    All the gear and no idea.

  3. #403
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    Word!

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    Well I'm about to upset my own thread now... But since it's my daggum thread, I'm gonna do it.

    Until I rode this bike, I've never had the desire to ride anything by my 26" AMHT. My terrain is peppered with chunk, sandstone and limestone Cliff drops, monster trucking, baby heads... General chunk.

    I've been considering the Stache for a while now, so I didn't take this step blindly.

    It's the best trail bike I've ever ridden. Small drops up to 3 feet are confident and cake, log rides to wheelie drops are a no brainer with all that meaty traction, small doubles, tables, etc... It flies great!

    For now, I've got no intention of selling my 26, but it will get less love.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow- the 29 + look huge in that comparison. Stash has been well reviewed by many- Congrats. I'm on 650b+ and loving the confidence and stability as going from 26.

    Today, I'm taking the 1991 HardRock out for a spin though. I bumped it to 2.4 tires.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

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    How much higher is the BB on that beast? Seriously, those wheels look absolutely massive next to the 26's.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  6. #406
    damned rocks...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    How much higher is the BB on that beast? Seriously, those wheels look absolutely massive next to the 26's.
    Supposedly at the same height, more or less.
    On the 29er the BB is lowered to compensate for the increase in axle height.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    ... It flies great!...

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    How does it climb though? I would like to get to the top of the climb without having a heart attack. LoL. Those wheels are massive!

  8. #408
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    There is a little lens perspective foolery going on there making the difference appear greater than it really is.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yes. Absolutely, undeniably and inarguably yes.
    Anyone that has actually spent any time at all riding with talented riders will agree 100%.

    As far as easily verified evidence, I would start by presenting all mountain biking that took place prior to the year 2000.

    It was the pre digital-era, so I don't have many pics or video, but I've seen incredible riding done on bikes that the internet gear-weenies of today would undoubtedly blame for all their shortcomings.

    Someday I'll get around to scanning my old pics.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to slapheadmofo again."
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    How much higher is the BB on that beast? Seriously, those wheels look absolutely massive next to the 26's.
    Yep! When I first looked at it in the store, I was floored. I held it up next to a bike with 26x2.3" and my jaw dropped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    Supposedly at the same height, more or less.
    On the 29er the BB is lowered to compensate for the increase in axle height.
    Since the early adaptation of the 29'er, there has been BB drop geometry. You literally do "sit down in" the bike. The picture above with the bikes side by side show the BB height is very similar.

    Just as the BB-chainstay has changed to drop the BB below the level of the rear axle, the shorter head tube helps compensate for an excessively tall stack. I love a good, tall stack height, but if I ran the same bar/stem/headset/spacer combo on both bikes, the Stache would feel like an old-man hybrid.
    Running a 25mm rise bar on the Stache versus a 50mm rise on my Komodo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brodino View Post
    How does it climb though? I would like to get to the top of the climb without having a heart attack. LoL. Those wheels are massive!
    You wouldn't believe me if I told you, LOL. My 26x2.4" Maxxis Ardent tires are Published weight 815 grams. Best tires I've ever had on my Komodo. Low knobs/fat casing so I can run lower psi and get more wrap-grip from the squishy tire. The 29x3" Chupacabra tires are ~884-895grams. They are excellent for my rocky/chunky terrain and handle rocks well. Not a huge difference in weight.

    Stan's Flow EX rims: 490g
    Sun Duroc 50 rims: 655g (not too shabby for something that's nearly double my Flow EX)

    Compared to my Hope Pro-4 / DT Comp / Stan's Flow EX wheelset on my Komodo...sure, there's a bit of a perceivable difference. But my wheelset was almost $900. My entire Trek Stache was only $999.

    If I had a $900 wheelset on the Stache, the numbers would be even closer together and the perception would be even more difficult to detect. I've got a boutique wheelset on one and an entry level on the other.

    Weight is not the cause of any perceivable difference anyhoo IMO. It's the contact patch.

    I think the biggest perceivable difference is when you're rolling on pavement. My Komodo is fairly snappy and the motor-up initial takeoff on the Stache is definitely noticeable. It has more to do with the larger contact patch than weight. The extra rubber on the ground does add an initial bit of resistance...but after the first couple of pedal strokes, it's all momentum.

    The moment you hit the trail and all those bumps, the tables turn. I climbed things on the Stache that my 26" Heckler, 26" Komodo, 26" SS couldn't even begin to get traction on. I normally pick my lines wisely on my 26" which is fun IMO and I feel accomplished. But I intentionally pick some very straight and dill-holery lines on the Stache. When it just rolls through it, I just laugh. Chunky/rocky climbs? Glide right up.

    As I motor toward rock-work, roots, etc...I find myself preparing to negotiate the obstacles... Yet when I get to them, it just rolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    There is a little lens perspective foolery going on there making the difference appear greater than it really is.
    Not much lens perspective foolery. I squatted to snap the picture and took it at the level of the wheelsets. 26" is about 26.3" and the 29x3 is about 30.5"...so you're looking at 4" difference.
    Last edited by chelboed; 08-18-2017 at 09:53 PM.

  11. #411
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    26? What's the point??!!-img_20170819_093541764-picsay.jpg

    Well I took the 26er out for a head-to-head against the Stache. My 26er is a 2005 Kinesis All Mountain Hardtail with a full-on brand new m8000 XT 1x11 build including m8000 cranks and 180/180 Ice Tech brakes. Super smooth 150mm RS coil fork.

    I took the same route on both bikes. Both bikes were super fun.

    My overall speed was faster on the Stache as well as less energy expended.

    That said, there are just some days where I'll prefer the 26er. It's fun in its own way. Some days it's fun to Bob'n'weave and dance through the boulders. Other days it's fun to motor the tank up and over everything.

    Will not be leaving this 26 forum any time soon, but will surely be spending time with the Plus-Boyz.

    Accelerating into a new jump after a berm is super snappy on my 26. No denying that!

  12. #412
    tire to rim ratio tester
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Well, it exists, and factory teams spend significant amounts of time and energy experimenting and testing equipment.
    OK I need opinions, including if am I messing up the downhill times or something. I've been using the rigid lockout on the 26" 80mm fork lately. Small downhill trail 3:55 time, longer serpentine ridge trails about 4 miles from the 1st trail 8:55 time. So I switch back to softest setting on the 80mm. That is the ONLY change, no other changes at all. Small trail time now 3:30, OK I thought this must be an anomaly, how can a crappy 80mm fork be 11% faster down the hill than locked rigid. So then I do the longer trail, 7:55 time, again 11% faster. It wasn't really noticeably faster but the times are the times. So now what? Do I keep this fork because now I'm more curious than ever to upgrade it and see how much time I can shave off. Upgradeitis!!!

  13. #413
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    how many times have you ridden the trail?
    All the gear and no idea.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    OK I need opinions, including if am I messing up the downhill times or something. I've been using the rigid lockout on the 26" 80mm fork lately. Small downhill trail 3:55 time, longer serpentine ridge trails about 4 miles from the 1st trail 8:55 time. So I switch back to softest setting on the 80mm. That is the ONLY change, no other changes at all. Small trail time now 3:30, OK I thought this must be an anomaly, how can a crappy 80mm fork be 11% faster down the hill than locked rigid. So then I do the longer trail, 7:55 time, again 11% faster. It wasn't really noticeably faster but the times are the times. So now what? Do I keep this fork because now I'm more curious than ever to upgrade it and see how much time I can shave off. Upgradeitis!!!
    It all depends on your skill level. It sounds like your 80mm travel gives you the confidence you need to push hard.

  15. #415
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    I always wanted a Cannondale but never could afford a full suspension Cannondale let alone any other full suspension bike when I was younger. I ended up with a Gary Fisher Hard tale but after 20 years of EMS my back cant take the bumps that it provides. I found a Cannondale RZ 120 frame with a lefty for fairly cheap and built my own Cannondale. With everything I have on it the bike would be $3500 new and I really cant afford that.
    26? What's the point??!!-mtb1.jpg

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    how many times have you ridden the trail?
    Small trail maybe 100 times by now. Never could break 4 min before recently. Still need to test the time more, it's by memory and the GPS app would take a while to dissect because it times the entire distance of the ride. Larger set of connected trails, maybe 15 times by now, for sure this 7:55 time is the fastest ever and I did it on a 26" instead of my 27.5"!!! Newfound confidence in the 26" now after hydraulic and front tire upgrades. I'll keep the 80mm fork for now. Just wondering how it would be with a 100mm or 120mm air fork, kind of like how a teenager dreams of some poster swimsuit model in their room.

  17. #417
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    well you need to wap your gps app for strava, that will dissect the ride for you on the fly.
    yeah 100 times is good enough to know the trail well, just sounded like you had only done it 3 or 4 times.
    I just smashed a decent time on a trail i know backwards on a 80mm forked, v-braked bike, over a 120mm forked disc braked bike, travel isn't everything
    All the gear and no idea.

  18. #418
    squish, squish in da fish
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    i agree with jb weld. there is some trickery going on because the 29 is easily 3 to 4 inches in front of the 26

  19. #419
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    Dont forget, that 29 is a 29+, therefore bigger than a "plain old" 29er
    always mad and usually drunk......

  20. #420
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    This has been a fun & funny thread. Once or twice I nearly went back to hitting the sauce...

    I'm new to the forum...Great stuff! I have a 1990 full rigid 26 cannondale and a 2004 26 scalpel lefty. These are the two best reasons I have for riding the 26. If Cannondale would graciously provide me with a 27.5 and/or a 29, I'd be more than happy to give them a fair try...and report back to the forum with my findings.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by gray ghost View Post
    I'm new to the forum...Great stuff! I have a 1990 full rigid 26 cannondale and a 2004 26 scalpel lefty. These are the two best reasons I have for riding the 26.
    I love your reasoning . Two of my lightest-ever builds are 26ers. I'm enjoying them while they last. I ride 'em because I have 'em. It's as good a reason as any.

    Next bike will be a 650b though. Either that, or a 27.5. Still deciding.

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    Next bike will be a 650b though. Either that, or a 27.5. Still deciding.
    Hehe, good one!

    One of my bikes is a 27'er, yup, in between 26" and 27.5".
    Quote Originally Posted by Picard
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  23. #423
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    Love old bikes

    I recently retired (62) and found an old 26" Omega 1800 in my back ally. I rode the hell out of that bike. It got me into fixing, riding bikes and restoring them.
    Right now I have restored magnas, and given them to friends and family, I did a Trek 820, Nishiki Manitoba, Giant Cypress DX for my wife, Schwinn Seirra, Nishiki Century road bike, and in the last two weeks I bought a1986 Bridgestone MB2 all original in great shape for 15.00 (Had an old Wilderness Trail Bikes seat) and today I bought a Univega Range Rover for 5.00 in rideable shape. I sell a few and put the money into bike tools. I ride all these bikes, on flat trails and paved trails. 20-50 miles a week.
    I only wish I could have discovered biking at 18-20 years of age, but I am happy with what I got and my wife and I have a blast. ( Rode my first BMX race last year and placed third, I will leave that to the younger guys due to bad neck. I will post pics in a few days.
    (Never pay retail!!!)

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by dg5228 View Post
    I recently retired (62) and found an old 26" Omega 1800 in my back ally. I rode the hell out of that bike. It got me into fixing, riding bikes and restoring them.
    Right now I have restored magnas, and given them to friends and family, I did a Trek 820, Nishiki Manitoba, Giant Cypress DX for my wife, Schwinn Seirra, Nishiki Century road bike, and in the last two weeks I bought a1986 Bridgestone MB2 all original in great shape for 15.00 (Had an old Wilderness Trail Bikes seat) and today I bought a Univega Range Rover for 5.00 in rideable shape. I sell a few and put the money into bike tools. I ride all these bikes, on flat trails and paved trails. 20-50 miles a week.
    I only wish I could have discovered biking at 18-20 years of age, but I am happy with what I got and my wife and I have a blast. ( Rode my first BMX race last year and placed third, I will leave that to the younger guys due to bad neck. I will post pics in a few days.
    (Never pay retail!!!)
    Congrats on your new interest. I also learned by fixing up old bikes. Have fun and welcome to the site.
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  25. #425
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    That sounds awesome, dg5228!! sorry about the neck trouble...third place is rockin'!

    I still have the frame of my wife's old Bridgestone purchased back in 1990...have been eyeballing it lately to maybe restore it.

    Happy trails!

  26. #426
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    Why 26? Well.....I've been riding MTB's since the mid 1970's, when the sport didn't even have a name yet. I've seen 40 years of tech advances, trends, improvements, and some downright dumb $hit (18mm rims w/2.3 skinwalls?!?!). Anyhoo, the ole "bigger& better" train just keeps on a rolling, year after year. At some point along the line, I decided actually riding was a lot more fun than buying/building something new every year just to be "cool." For my riding style and trails, (YMMV....) It's a solid, 26" platform, with mid-to heavy duty parts, ISIS BB, wider double-wall rims, 2.1-2.3 blackwalls, cable discs, etc. And yes I have several variations- Haro Sonix VL 120 (1x9), Mongoose black-diamond single-speed hardtail, no-name rigid 3x8 gravel pounder, and even a Hoffman 26" MTB/BMX pumptrack rig. Good thing is I've got TONS of interchangeable parts in the shop room, new replacement parts are cheap and plentiful, and they're all set up for minimal maintenance and max riding time

  27. #427
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    I've probably said this too many times in various forums, but I love my '01 Schwinn Homegrown Hardtail! As my build currently stands, I'm into it to the tune of nearly $3k. I bought it as a NIB, unbuilt frame. I built it exactly as I wanted it. King hubs, Stans Alpine hoops, Huntchinson Python tubeless tires, carbon bar, Thomson post, blah, blah, blah... It is the most fun, fastest accelerating bike I've ever ridden. At sub 20 lbs, it's also the lightest mountain bike I've ever ridden. Maybe it's the short wheelbase, maybe it's a lucky fit, I don't know, but It's the bike I choose over all others.

    I've contemplated converting it to 27.5, but why? It does everything I need it to do.
    "The maturity of an 8 year-old boy coupled with the insecurity of a teen aged girl."

  28. #428
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    I still love my 26er and there will never be a more versatile wheel size. I am thinking about building up a new one, staying classy with steel, and trying to create the most versatile mountain bike I can. Here is a link to my google sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    It also has a few other build ideas on it and me and my friend are constantly updating it. If any of you guys are thinking about doing a complete custom bike we put together this sheet setup and it works for almost all bikes. But 26 all the way. I ride my dad's old '97 Privateer Comp quite a bit. Works on the local trails, messing around town and the car parks, and great at the dirt jump park.

  29. #429
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    That cotic is a pretty sweet looking frame. Let us know if you get one.
    Looking for a Medium Scott Scale frame, preferably a 2012 in 26.

  30. #430
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    Will do. I'm just a high schooler trying to make some cash so it might take longer to acquire all of the parts than it would for most.

  31. #431
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    Because they never made an SX Trail in any other size

  32. #432
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    Like many I ride 26" because that's what I have. The Kona Dawg and the Heckler (see sig) are both great bikes and set up nice but the Heckler is my #1. I'm a bit of a clyde (6-4/220lbs) so last frame I broke I was very focused on reliability and chose the Heckler based on it's tried and true, simple design. And I have not broken a frame since.

    At the time, I was interested in trying a 29 but figured if spokes, swingarms, forks ect are all spaced out just a hair more in a 29 vs 26 they would be more likely to fail so I chose one of the toughest 26" bikes out there. I has not disappointed...I've worn out wheels, tranny, brakes, stem, seat, pivot bearings, etc. a few times but the frame is still rock solid.

    But...time ticks on and I am making the move to the dark side. I have a 2018 Kona Process 153 on order (27.5) so I will soon be experiencing the 'big wheel' hoopla (get it...HOOP-la?).
    07 Kona Dawg Supreme
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    18 Kona Process 153 AL/DL (27.5)...

  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturge View Post

    But...time ticks on and I am making the move to the dark side. I have a 2018 Kona Process 153 on order (27.5) so I will soon be experiencing the 'big wheel' hoopla (get it...HOOP-la?).
    You do know that 650 wheels are only 75mm more than 26 wheels in circumference ?
    (With same width tire)
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  34. #434
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    Just got to love the arguments, no bit of kit will make you a better rider. I have a HT 27" and an enduro 26" This past weekend I rode with some guys...... at the end of each trail damn, why you so fast... How come you 26" wheels roll easier over the rocks?........ I thought 29er wheels are supposed to better over rocks...... and it goes on and on and on. One was on a spez enduro 27" and the other on a Jeffsy. I just smiled and said, dont believe the hype about wheel size.
    If 26er is good for slope style and dirtjump, it will still be around for a longtime!! Definitely not obsolete!
    I like the 27" HT for what it is but I prefer my enduro bike. O and the Hardtail is an enduro Hardtail.

  35. #435
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    I kind of have one foot out the 26" door with my Pivot Mach 5.7C. I ran across a great deal on the frame and was going to build it up as a 26", but then decided to future proof a little and go 27.5. Not too bad, but a little taller than I'd like in the BB and limiting on the rear tire choice. Plus I had to give up a 1/2" of travel to make that work. Finally settled on running it with a 27.5" up front and a 26" in the back. Learned that a big 26" tire really isn't that much smaller than a smallish 27.5" tire. Anyways, the bike still rocks and I'll be keeping it a while. Of course I have a 29" hardtail that gets half the reps, too

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    I kind of have one foot out the 26" door with my Pivot Mach 5.7C. I ran across a great deal on the frame and was going to build it up as a 26", but then decided to future proof a little and go 27.5. Not too bad, but a little taller than I'd like in the BB and limiting on the rear tire choice. Plus I had to give up a 1/2" of travel to make that work. Finally settled on running it with a 27.5" up front and a 26" in the back. Learned that a big 26" tire really isn't that much smaller than a smallish 27.5" tire. Anyways, the bike still rocks and I'll be keeping it a while. Of course I have a 29" hardtail that gets half the reps, too
    Welcome to the 27/26er team.

    26? What's the point??!!-ky4t81ah.jpg

  37. #437
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    ^B26er... please.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  38. #438
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    Very nice! Here is mine. I don't think I hold my friends up too much 26? What's the point??!!-mach-57c.jpg

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    ^B26er... please.
    The Marauder setup!

  40. #440
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    There are many advantages to a 26" wheel if you are into dirt jumping. Lighter, stiffer, less gyroscope effect and less effects from crosswinds. Don't forget about half the pros at Redbull Rampage still ride 26".
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

  41. #441
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    Anybody who thinks there's no point in riding a 26" is not a real rider. They're a poser who just HAS to have the latest bicycling underwear to be 'cool'.
    What's next, the 29'er guys gonna say they're no good because 27.5 is here now? Get real. Ride what you like and do it for yourself. Don't ride to impress the other poser clowns who just HAVE to get that bicycling bra and not for their woman.
    DAMN THE MUD, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!

  42. #442
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    If you want the fastest, you're not going to be riding 26".

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    Hope no bikes are not cool

    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    Well I'm about to upset my own thread now... But since it's my daggum thread, I'm gonna do it.

    Until I rode this bike, I've never had the desire to ride anything by my 26" AMHT. My terrain is peppered with chunk, sandstone and limestone Cliff drops, monster trucking, baby heads... General chunk.

    I've been considering the Stache for a while now, so I didn't take this step blindly.

    It's the best trail bike I've ever ridden. Small drops up to 3 feet are confident and cake, log rides to wheelie drops are a no brainer with all that meaty traction, small doubles, tables, etc... It flies great!

    For now, I've got no intention of selling my 26, but it will get less love.

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    Man, you messed up your own post LOL!

    I have all wheel sizes and each one has your place

    the hardtail 29er has its place: on the garage
    the 27.5 fullsuss has its place: competition, itīs my xc rig, 120mm travel, light weight everything from rims to tires, no dropper, etc, firm shock and forks, not so much fun.

    the 26 full suss has its place: on the trails. a heavy bike because of the hops, mavic ex830 36h, 800g each rem alone, 850g each tire, dropper posts, everything that can make a bike heavier is there. I switched the original fork, fox factory 120mm with an old rockshox u-turn, that allows me change from 80 to 130mm, what makes this bike the real do-it-all bike. climb everything at 80mm, go downhill at 130mm. not much but this is a blast. not only, I know that if a piece of wood get into the wheels, it wil get destroyed by the sturdy stiff spokes i have. piece of mind... thinking on putting lighter wheels on her, but I think If I do all the other bikes will get sold.

    Unfortunately Iīve bought myself a long travel 650b and Iīm afraid my wife will oblige me to sell one of the bikes... hopefully I find a buyer for the 29er!

    long story short: at 5"5 long legs, no wheelsize has better geometry for me than medium 26ers.

    why 26ers?
    because they are fun.
    because soon as I started riding with my wife I could stop spending money trying to keep up with the other guys and ride what I really like. because it makes things harder and thatīs the whole point of the sport. make myself better rider, make me balance better to get the better lines... fat bikes are fun? ow yeah I love fatties. once you go fat you never go back. they allow you to monstertruck over everything? yes. they are also minority? yes! people who hate 29ers love 26ers and fat bikes, puls bikes and baby fat bikes

    conclusion: you have not messed up your post. you just reinforced bikes are meant to be fun.

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    Forgot to mention:

    I have put my engineering degree to test and thought I should run the math before saying anything. People say big things about inertia but inertia alone doesnīt mean the full picture. Inertia only have a meaning when coupled with rotational speed. When you put the math together for rotational energy, which is what counts: power, there will be no difference on the wheel size because the radius that influence inertia values will be cancelled on the rotational speed equation. So it will come down to mass placement.

    example: given two wheels, and the rim weight is exactly at 0.9 of the total radius, and they weight the same, no matter how big the rim is, the energy equation for that will be the same.

    So fat tires might change things slightly as the rim will get proportionally inwards when compared to normal wheels. It will be good as the more centered the mass, the less energy it takes to rotate. however, fat tires are heavier so it might counter act things.

    During my calculations, Iīve figured out that energy to rotate thes rims are something like 1/10th of the energy required to rotate the tires. So going tubeless and having reasonably light tires is the way to go. Spokes are 1/1000th of the tires so donīt mind if your wheel is heavy because of spokes. It is better to have a light rim with plenty of spokes than a heavy rim with less spokes. Both dinamically and structurally. Energy required to rotate the hubs are neglectible. its so small that you can consider it static weight.

    Of course, rotating or not, every gram will have to be taken uphill and the work equation is mass times distance plus mass times gravity times height. divide them by time and you have power. Conclusion: if you have two riders with same power ability and same weight, completely equal, being one wiht a 20lbs bike and the other has a 30lbs bike. The lighter bike will take the podium as the total mass (rider+bike) is lesser.

    26ers have the advantage of being lighter. two rims of same kind, two tires of same kind will always be lighter in 26er format than 29er format.

    The next math topic comes into a different name: vibration. every time your bike chatter on the trail, every time it went up half an inch, the energy to lift the bike plus yourself came from the pedals. mass x gravity x height. thatīs why we get slowed when things start vibrating. there are two ways to deal with that:
    1 - bigger wheels
    2 - good suspension

    At this point, the conclusion is: good suspension trumps wheelsize. if youre tight on the budget, a cheap 29er will be more comfortable but heavier to pedal. a cheap 26er will be less comfortable and lighter to pedal.

    an expensive 26er with good components will not let you down. So as an expensive 29er will also not let you down if youīre light rider and can deal the flexibility. cant be bigger and stiffer at same time. Smaller will always be stiffer. You can make the most of engineering th get a better stiffer 29er but the same technology applied to a 26er will render even better results.

    When motorcycles remove the suspension or add locks to them, or move to bigger wheels, than we can review this topic. Meanwhile, the motorcycle wheels are smaller and they have good suspension.


    more consideration on wheel sizes: small people get along on small bikes. big wheels on small bikes is the same as big bikes with small wheels. things are meant to be proportional. Look at the cars. big tires have more volume and help big heavy riders to run same pressure as small riders on small wheels. To me, small bikes, medium bikes, large bikes should all have proportional dimensions, with wheels getting bigger, chainstays getting bigger, wheelbase getting bigger, all in same proportion, ending up in similar handling regardless of size.
    Last edited by edmodasvirgens; 01-08-2018 at 11:08 AM. Reason: typos

  45. #445
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    below you can find the equations. bear in mind that for the same linear speed of the bike bigger wheels will have lower rotational speed than smaller wheels. smaller wheels will have less inertia and higher rotational speed and vice versa for bigger wheels.

    linear speed of the bike = V
    mass = m
    radius of the mass = r
    Inertia = I = m.r^2
    rotational speed = W = V . 2Pi / 2Pi.r = V/r
    energy = e = I.W^2
    energy = m.r^2 . v^2/r^2 = m.v^2

    the final equation, when putting together inertia and rotational speed using the bikeīs linear speed, you can see the radius get cancelled and the energy is purely mass times the square of the speed.

    these equations are relevant for the mass in contact with soil, the maximum radius, which would be the tire treads. If you workout the inertia equation for the rim, the radius will be, lets say, 0.9r. So, if the other wheel in comparison has the same proportions, with the rim at 0.9r, things will be equal as well.

    good luck now trying to convince somebody bigger wheels are faster just because they are big... take a look at race cars and monster trucks....

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmodasvirgens View Post
    below you can find the equations...
    You are forgetting something. Buying the latest tech introduces the 'wanker' factor that will add a least 2mph to your speed.

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    You are forgetting something. Buying the latest tech introduces the 'wanker' factor that will add a least 2mph to your speed.
    stickers have the same effect. this is a bike hack lol!

  48. #448
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    some peeps like all the new technology....some peeps don't. I fall into the last category. I like steep head angles, and less suspension. I don't like modern plastic vehicles. I go for real steel. I'm short, so I like 26er's....heck, even my motorcycle is a hardtail. Most peeps just like to ride barcaloungers. 26er's aren't going extinct....

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmodasvirgens View Post
    below you can find the equations. bear in mind that for the same linear speed of the bike bigger wheels will have lower rotational speed than smaller wheels. smaller wheels will have less inertia and higher rotational speed and vice versa for bigger wheels.

    linear speed of the bike = V
    mass = m
    radius of the mass = r
    Inertia = I = m.r^2
    rotational speed = W = V . 2Pi / 2Pi.r = V/r
    energy = e = I.W^2
    energy = m.r^2 . v^2/r^2 = m.v^2

    the final equation, when putting together inertia and rotational speed using the bikeīs linear speed, you can see the radius get cancelled and the energy is purely mass times the square of the speed.

    these equations are relevant for the mass in contact with soil, the maximum radius, which would be the tire treads. If you workout the inertia equation for the rim, the radius will be, lets say, 0.9r. So, if the other wheel in comparison has the same proportions, with the rim at 0.9r, things will be equal as well.

    good luck now trying to convince somebody bigger wheels are faster just because they are big... take a look at race cars and monster trucks....
    Bigger wheels are faster if they are rolling over rocks and other obstacles. I've timed a 26" vs. a 27.5" on a very rocky trail, the 27.5" was almost 10% faster. Even more importantly, I enjoyed the 27.5" ride more than the 26". I don't even want to ride a 26" anymore on extremely rocky trails because it's more of a chore than an enjoyment. If you are on a flat surface that's a different story. The numbers above assume a flat smooth surface. That doesn't exist on a real trail. Look, if you have fun on a 26" that's great but don't say it's faster on a rocky trail unless you have real-world timing numbers.
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  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Bigger wheels are faster if they are rolling over rocks and other obstacles. I've timed a 26" vs. a 27.5" on a very rocky trail, the 27.5" was almost 10% faster. Even more importantly, I enjoyed the 27.5" ride more than the 26". I don't even want to ride a 26" anymore on extremely rocky trails because it's more of a chore than an enjoyment. If you are on a flat surface that's a different story. The numbers above assume a flat smooth surface. That doesn't exist on a real trail. Look, if you have fun on a 26" that's great but don't say it's faster on a rocky trail unless you have real-world timing numbers.
    You are right. I have mentioned on the previous post that bigger wheels compensate for bad suspension. That's why cheaper 29ers seems faster, bringing the overall impression that bigger is faster. In fact, bigger is less prone to chattering and overall vibration, which might lead you to be faster for general trail riding. On the other hand, cheap = heavy = slower. For some trails, it will be a hindering fact. For others it will be not. I can even tell that Iīm on the worst side of the equation as the 26 hops I ride are very very heavy, heavier than cheap 29er stuff. I think they came from a downhill bike. Here is where I find my fun. Make me work hard even if riding slow with my wife and I can do anything to the bike it will not bend the wheels.

    I have fun on all my bikes 26, 27.5 and 29er (I have them all). No bike is not fun. Every bike is fun to ride on itīs own aspects. The fact that the 26er needs better line choice and more work to go along difficult rocky trails can be a fun factor for some people, while fun for other's is to go fast.

    During my experiences, I've noticed that tires play a role, so important as wheel size. I ride some trails where it is very hard to find traction and I was giving up the 26er because of this. However, I've found later that different tires would provide traction and I was happy again riding the bikes that suited me. I never find a 650b or 29er which geometry suited me like a glove but I'm still looking for. I'm sure I will find it male version. My wife's 29er was great (because felt like 26er) and my wifes 650b is even greater.

    The whole point of my manifesto was to say the 26ers are not obsolete just because the wheel size. There are great bikes around for very cheap and People can make advantage of this and have very good bikes and have lots of fun with them. All my 26er tech is above my other bikes tech because of the price. Except for my wife's bike, but her bike costed a car lol
    Last edited by edmodasvirgens; 01-09-2018 at 09:10 AM. Reason: typos

  51. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Bigger wheels are faster if they are rolling over rocks and other obstacles. I've timed a 26" vs. a 27.5" on a very rocky trail, the 27.5" was almost 10% faster. Even more importantly, I enjoyed the 27.5" ride more than the 26". I don't even want to ride a 26" anymore on extremely rocky trails because it's more of a chore than an enjoyment. If you are on a flat surface that's a different story. The numbers above assume a flat smooth surface. That doesn't exist on a real trail. Look, if you have fun on a 26" that's great but don't say it's faster on a rocky trail unless you have real-world timing numbers.
    Maybe so. But im on 29 remedy and still cant break my pr's from 2014. Versus a cannondale rz140. If you ride like 26 is holding you back it will. If you forget what wheel size you're on and just know the bike, and are going Balls to the walls trying to shave every second you can where ever you can.... it's more about you.

  52. #452
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    I did break most of my PR's going uphill within the first few rides though.... just not downhill.... everything it took me to get is fast as I could be before d h I just haven't done it yet. 6 months ago I didn't think I'd be able to beat any of those PR's ever again from 2014 but I actually think I can on this bike.... I just got to pay my dues and have a good day......

    PS: I probably was faster Bank in the corners on the 26th for sure

  53. #453
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    26 feels faster, and for some of us, that is enough.

  54. #454
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    My point is I'm still riding my 26er wheels, sometimes they're fat and sometimes they're skinny.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  55. #455
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    I like my SX Trail. It's a 26 inch bike and I like it. I have a 29 inch Specialized hard tail and I like it too. Just ride your damn bike.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    26 feels faster, and for some of us, that is enough.
    It does feel faster off the line so to speak. Whatever you like, you ride. I don't understand the inferiority complex here with the major manufacturers moving on to larger tire sizes. Are people really basing their identity on their tire sizes and their bike makes? I think one day someone should make an indie movie out of 26" bikes, titled something like The Rise and Fall of the 26" Mountain Bike Tire, 1978-2013. It may have fallen but it will never go away, don't worry.
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  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Bigger wheels are faster if they are rolling over rocks and other obstacles. I've timed a 26" vs. a 27.5" on a very rocky trail, the 27.5" was almost 10% faster. Even more importantly, I enjoyed the 27.5" ride more than the 26". I don't even want to ride a 26" anymore on extremely rocky trails because it's more of a chore than an enjoyment. If you are on a flat surface that's a different story. The numbers above assume a flat smooth surface. That doesn't exist on a real trail. Look, if you have fun on a 26" that's great but don't say it's faster on a rocky trail unless you have real-world timing numbers.
    Here's some timing for you. 1.5 seconds faster on 26 compared to 27. Keep an eye on this guy next year. One of the fastest in the world as is and he's young.

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Ma...g-Serious,1853
    Last edited by slimat99; 01-10-2018 at 05:35 PM.

  58. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Bigger wheels are faster if they are rolling over rocks and other obstacles. I've timed a 26" vs. a 27.5" on a very rocky trail, the 27.5" was almost 10% faster. Even more importantly, I enjoyed the 27.5" ride more than the 26". I don't even want to ride a 26" anymore on extremely rocky trails because it's more of a chore than an enjoyment. If you are on a flat surface that's a different story. The numbers above assume a flat smooth surface. That doesn't exist on a real trail. Look, if you have fun on a 26" that's great but don't say it's faster on a rocky trail unless you have real-world timing numbers.
    Were geometry and travel and tires and air pressure held consistent? There is one trail I ride that has a super steep rock garden full of 6" to 1' rocks. I'm literally twice as fast on it on my 26 as my 650b. But that's because the 26 is a dh rig designed to go fast on that type of trail and the 650b is a trail bike.

    Mathematically the max difference of the angle of attack between a 26er and a 29er is like 8 percent. Even if that difference translated entirely into speed (which it doesn't) you won't see a 10 percent difference between a 650b and a 26er based solely on wheels.

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  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    26 feels faster, and for some of us, that is enough.
    Yeah I remember reading so many stories of 26 riders riding 29ers for the first time and feeling like they were sluggish, then being shocked when they learned their lap time on the 29 was faster. But like so many things mtb, so many factors play into it. I enjoy my 29er and my 26er. I have no idea which one is actually faster.
    There are two types of people in this world:
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  60. #460
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    aaagh, it comes down to the rider really.
    I ride my 26er almost all the time. I own a 650b as well. When I ride with my friends, I am faster by alot compared to the guys on 29 or 650. In fact all the fast guys are riding 26 bikes. All the bikes across the board are trail and enduro bikes, so no major difference including the year models are about the same.
    I wish for the DH world cup, riders would be allowed to make use of 26er wheels. There were some guys who were alot faster on it.

  61. #461
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    I think the post is more like: why do you still ride 26? we canīt bring a war 26x 650 or 29er because everyone here might have a 26er, look at her and say: I cant sell you, you are so fun. Even when you already ride bigger wheels just because youīve got a superstar new bike and she was not available in 26 size. Your wife look at you and demands the 26er to be sold but you resist, because it is more than a bike. You know you still can rip on her and await for the day that you will be so fit that you will get her and go faster than everyone else, or on that day that you know you donīt need to go fast and want have fun, even if this day will not happen in an year time, you still save your bike and just canīt let her go.

  62. #462
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    In one of the most scientifically done comparisons of wheel size, done by world cup racers, 29ers were faster than 26ers by much less than half of 1% over a course several miles long.

    This is a car video, but it shows how two completely different vehicles with different strengths become very evenly matched by a mixture of track features.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIggM65KBRk

  63. #463
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    ^That's a good point. I've seen a professional racecar driver in a Porsche Boxster on the track obliterating mediocre drivers in cars that had 2-3 times the horse power and cost 2-3 times as much.

    I like to buy shiny new bikes and parts from time to time, but the bike marketers will have us believe that we need to buy the latest and greatest to be better faster riders when in reality we should be focusing more on developing our talent first. I bought a 27.5 (still have a 26) not too long ago but now the new cool thing is mid travel 29ers! Me and my wallet can't keep up with these trends.

  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudSnow View Post
    In one of the most scientifically done comparisons of wheel size, done by world cup racers, 29ers were faster than 26ers by much less than half of 1% over a course several miles long.
    I don't believe the wheel size change was ever about racing. It was about selling bikes.

  65. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    If you want the fastest, you're not going to be riding 26".
    My goal when out riding isn't to be the fastest, but to have the most fun getting there. My Strava times aren't exactly blazing downhill because I am aiming for every piece of chunk I can find.

    Doing that kind of riding, there is no difference between my 29" 160mm bike, and my friends 26" 180mm bike. We are both full of smiles when we regroup at the bottom of the hill.

  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I don't believe the wheel size change was ever about racing. It was about selling bikes.
    Most certainly not about racing considering the coming out year of 650b, which just happened to be the first year of the EWS, saw 1st and 2nd overall won on discontinued 26'ers. The second year of the EWS 26" was leading the overall before it was completely removed from competition.

    We all know it's the rider not the bike, but there's no getting around the fact that the industry pulled the plug on a wheel size that was wining back to back EWS titles.

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    The industry pulled 26" wheels, but I can still get 26" wheels in many varieties: The confusion...

    :headexplodes:
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

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    If the course is at all bumpy, I'll choose the 12kg 29er hard tail over the 9.6kg 26er hardtail every time.

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    I will take a different tact. Why I am replacing my 26"er.

    The Liquid20 is 14 years old. The frame is beginning to get some cracks long the rear triangle and I don't feel like taking it to a specialized welding shop that can do aluminum.
    The Rockshock Psylo shocks have had it, or more to point, just don't handle my body anymore. Getting someone to custom build a core for them just doesn't make any sense. So the only other option is to replace the forks all together. $$$ So then you start to look at what else is on the way out. Do I want to also replace the rear cassette and chain? (7 years for both of them). The Hayes hydrolic breaks need to be overhauled. The tires and tubes are just about ridden through their useful life. So when I started to add up the cost of fixing everything that needs to get done, it came to light that the cost of just buying a new 27.5" was going to be only a few dollars more than trying to revive what you might as well say is a dead horse.

    Why am I riding a 27.5"er. becuase it cost too much to ride my 26" any more.

  70. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    So when I started to add up the cost of fixing everything that needs to get done, it came to light that the cost of just buying a new 27.5" was going to be only a few dollars more than trying to revive what you might as well say is a dead horse.

    Why am I riding a 27.5"er. becuase it cost too much to ride my 26" any more.
    I get that. My own next bike will be a 27.5. I'll buy whatever is in the mainstream for value, and right now that means 27.5.

  71. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    I will take a different tact. Why I am replacing my 26"er.

    The Liquid20 is 14 years old. The frame is beginning to get some cracks long the rear triangle and I don't feel like taking it to a specialized welding shop that can do aluminum.
    The Rockshock Psylo shocks have had it, or more to point, just don't handle my body anymore. Getting someone to custom build a core for them just doesn't make any sense. So the only other option is to replace the forks all together. $$$ So then you start to look at what else is on the way out. Do I want to also replace the rear cassette and chain? (7 years for both of them). The Hayes hydrolic breaks need to be overhauled. The tires and tubes are just about ridden through their useful life. So when I started to add up the cost of fixing everything that needs to get done, it came to light that the cost of just buying a new 27.5" was going to be only a few dollars more than trying to revive what you might as well say is a dead horse.

    Why am I riding a 27.5"er. becuase it cost too much to ride my 26" any more.

    Wait for 26+ bikes to come out (not just tires, the whole bike). They are here but there are very few options right now. Wait a year or two for them to go mainstream.

    For a while I thought I'd never buy a 26" again, and I criticized them in here, for better or worse. With the standard 1.95 inch tire I was getting a ton of pedal strikes and getting hung up on embedded rocks that stuck up 1-2 inches out of the ground. It was annoying. No bad crashes or anything, but annoying enough to buy a 27.5" (again). Then for the 'problem' 26" bike I went wider on the 26 front tire to 2.4 inches and that solved a lot of problems, including pedal strikes and rock hang ups. That added roughly 3/4 of an inch to the height of the tire compared to the 1.95 inch standard one. Some would argue that I just got more skilled at clearing obstacles. While I am flattered at their compliment, no, it's the tire, it's not like I suddenly got skilled in a few days. I noticed the difference almost immediately. The bike's equipment did that, not me. The old geometry of short and upright still sucks for going down steep stuff (I feel like the whole bike is going fall forward over the front wheel), but downhill is much more doable with a wider tire. Then I read about 26+, and how 26 x 3.0 is as tall or a bit taller than a standard 27.5 x 2.1 tire.

    At 5'8" and 145 lbs, I love the thought of 27.5+ but I don't need any more rollover height than 27-28 inches. If a 26 x 2.8 is about 27.4 inches tall, and 26 x 3.0 is on paper 27.7 inches tall, that's enough rollover for me. So if and when 26+ bikes start coming out with a lot of different options, like the usual suspension, drivetrain, brake, etc. stuff then I'll seriously look at them. 27.5+ sounds awesome but it's basically a 29" with wide tires. 26+ seems a lot better, more nimble size combined with better traction, and still decent rollover, it seems like the best of all worlds for a rider under 5'10". I have not tried a fat bike yet but I'm not doing snow/sand so a + tire should be perfect. I wonder if a company like Trek will sell these in 13", 15", 17" frame sizes (I'll pick 17"). In the meantime I'll put a 27.5" fork on the 26" bike and try a 2.8 front tire for a while.
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  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Wait for 26+ bikes to come out (not just tires, the whole bike). They are here but there are very few options right now. Wait a year or two for them to go mainstream.

    For a while I thought I'd never buy a 26" again, and I criticized them in here, for better or worse. With the standard 1.95 inch tire I was getting a ton of pedal strikes and getting hung up on embedded rocks that stuck up 1-2 inches out of the ground. It was annoying. No bad crashes or anything, but annoying enough to buy a 27.5" (again). Then for the 'problem' 26" bike I went wider on the 26 front tire to 2.4 inches and that solved a lot of problems, including pedal strikes and rock hang ups. That added roughly 3/4 of an inch to the height of the tire compared to the 1.95 inch standard one. Some would argue that I just got more skilled at clearing obstacles. While I am flattered at their compliment, no, it's the tire, it's not like I suddenly got skilled in a few days. I noticed the difference almost immediately. The bike's equipment did that, not me. The old geometry of short and upright still sucks for going down steep stuff (I feel like the whole bike is going fall forward over the front wheel), but downhill is much more doable with a wider tire. Then I read about 26+, and how 26 x 3.0 is as tall or a bit taller than a standard 27.5 x 2.1 tire.

    At 5'8" and 145 lbs, I love the thought of 27.5+ but I don't need any more rollover height than 27-28 inches. If a 26 x 2.8 is about 27.4 inches tall, and 26 x 3.0 is on paper 27.7 inches tall, that's enough rollover for me. So if and when 26+ bikes start coming out with a lot of different options, like the usual suspension, drivetrain, brake, etc. stuff then I'll seriously look at them. 27.5+ sounds awesome but it's basically a 29" with wide tires. 26+ seems a lot better, more nimble size combined with better traction, and still decent rollover, it seems like the best of all worlds for a rider under 5'10". I have not tried a fat bike yet but I'm not doing snow/sand so a + tire should be perfect. I wonder if a company like Trek will sell these in 13", 15", 17" frame sizes (I'll pick 17"). In the meantime I'll put a 27.5" fork on the 26" bike and try a 2.8 front tire for a while.
    This is what I am excited about, especially when more tires and wheels become available. I am 99% sure my next bike will be a custom something hardtail, but I'd like it to be 26+ or 27.5 only. I have no need or desire for 27.5+ or larger, I too am only 5'8".
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  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    This is what I am excited about, especially when more tires and wheels become available. I am 99% sure my next bike will be a custom something hardtail, but I'd like it to be 26+ or 27.5 only. I have no need or desire for 27.5+ or larger, I too am only 5'8".
    Another option I may do (if 26 x 2.8 can fit in back, it's going to be tight), that you can put 26+ tires (and of course wheels) on a 27.5 frame, so you basically get a modern geometry bike with 26" wheels. The 26+ wheelsets are typically $500+; you can have the LBS build them for roughly $150 each depending on the hub quality you want. The 26+ rims are there, a lot of them, it's just the wheelsets right now in 2018 that are elusive and on the pricey side at least for me. On the front I only need the standard 100 x 9 so a Shimano Alivio hub for $12 is fine, I'm not picky as long as it rolls.
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  74. #474
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    Why I ride 26". I have built up a 26er with top end NOS parts that were substantially discounted. The handling is so quick. I get a perverse pleasure of leaving a hotshot unfit rider behind on his overbuilt full suspension bike that he brought to a trail that only requires a simple bike.I have all three wheel sizes, they each have their attributes. NOS frames can be purchased from China for under $200.00, such as Cube brand or Giant. I set mine up with a 2x10(Shimano),1x9, 1x10 (RaceFace single ring) with perfect chainline.

  75. #475
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    Most 27.5 frames and forks will easily take at least a 26 x 2.8" on the front and 26 x 2.6" or bigger on the back.

    And there are several 26" rims 35mm inside or wider, such as WTB Asym, Velocity Dually, WTB Scraper, Stan's Hugo.
    Last edited by MudSnow; 03-16-2018 at 12:48 PM.

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    Just scored a set of Schwalbe Pro Core inserts for my Chameleon for about $60us.
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  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmodasvirgens View Post
    I think the post is more like: why do you still ride 26? we canīt bring a war 26x 650 or 29er because everyone here might have a 26er, look at her and say: I cant sell you, you are so fun. Even when you already ride bigger wheels just because youīve got a superstar new bike and she was not available in 26 size. Your wife look at you and demands the 26er to be sold but you resist, because it is more than a bike. You know you still can rip on her and await for the day that you will be so fit that you will get her and go faster than everyone else, or on that day that you know you donīt need to go fast and want have fun, even if this day will not happen in an year time, you still save your bike and just canīt let her go.
    I am exactly in this boat. In my garage there are four bikes hanging from the ceiling. 26,27.5,29 and 29HT. No way I am selling my Blur XCc (21.5 lb). It is my first high end bike. Too many good memories. Like to take it for a spin from time to time. Still tons of nimble fun! Despite being "outdated" this bike still rocks. Also it is the bike that easiest fits in the trunk

  78. #478
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    Similar situation here as well.

    Something else we going through these days is 27.2, what's the point?

    We've got a brace of 27.2 seatposts.

    Now we're in the habit of using dropper posts, and 27.2 is just too skinny and niche for many options. However there are a few out there.

    Who ride's 26 & 27.2 with a dropper post? Who has drilled into an old 26" seat tube to create a stealth cable routing? Would anyone dare to?

    I don't, but I'm telling you right now I probably will do these things one day...well maybe not.

    So will my wife. She's got a nice 26'er.

    Back in the day there was a whole different approach obviously, where we'd just get back and sort of stiffen up the core and suck the seat into the gut toake it down the steepest sections. It was nuts. Sometimes we'd get stuck back there! Remember that?

    Last weekend I saw a guy on a pristine 94' Bontrager. It looked like a BMX bike next to all the long legged low and slack FS bikes on the summit. But it still looked slick.





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  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    Similar situation here as well.

    Something else we going through these days is 27.2, what's the point?

    We've got a brace of 27.2 seatposts.

    Now we're in the habit of using dropper posts, and 27.2 is just too skinny and niche for many options. However there are a few out there.

    Who ride's 26 & 27.2 with a dropper post? Who has drilled into an old 26" seat tube to create a stealth cable routing? Would anyone dare to?

    I don't, but I'm telling you right now I probably will do these things one day...well maybe not.

    So will my wife. She's got a nice 26'er.

    Back in the day there was a whole different approach obviously, where we'd just get back and sort of stiffen up the core and suck the seat into the gut toake it down the steepest sections. It was nuts. Sometimes we'd get stuck back there! Remember that?

    Last weekend I saw a guy on a pristine 94' Bontrager. It looked like a BMX bike next to all the long legged low and slack FS bikes on the summit. But it still looked slick.





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    Actually this Bontrager might be older than 1994. Can anyone identify it?

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  80. #480
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    probably 92 or 93...
    All the gear and no idea.

  81. #481
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    Love those CB cranks.
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  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by k^2 View Post
    I am exactly in this boat. In my garage there are four bikes hanging from the ceiling. 26,27.5,29 and 29HT. No way I am selling my Blur XCc (21.5 lb). It is my first high end bike. Too many good memories. Like to take it for a spin from time to time. Still tons of nimble fun! Despite being "outdated" this bike still rocks. Also it is the bike that easiest fits in the trunk
    Turning 40 with 2 kids really changed my perspective. I no longer try and keep up with the Jones' and most of my rides are solo rides when the kids decide to take a nap. Its all about exercise and fun for me now, and I find my 26 is exceedingly fun.
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  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker View Post
    Turning 40 with 2 kids really changed my perspective. I no longer try and keep up with the Jones' and most of my rides are solo rides when the kids decide to take a nap. Its all about exercise and fun for me now, and I find my 26 is exceedingly fun.
    Ditto. Kids sleeping in late or napping then im off. Don’t have the skill, stamina, or budget for anything fancier. The 09 trance does just fine.

  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker View Post
    Turning 40 with 2 kids really changed my perspective. I no longer try and keep up with the Jones' and most of my rides are solo rides when the kids decide to take a nap. Its all about exercise and fun for me now, and I find my 26 is exceedingly fun.
    This describes me to a "T", except for the kids napping part (my boys are high-schoolers now). I get pleasure from riding something classic, with enough modern twists on it and personal touches that it keeps me interested and happy.
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  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    This describes me to a "T", except for the kids napping part (my boys are high-schoolers now). I get pleasure from riding something classic, with enough modern twists on it and personal touches that it keeps me interested and happy.
    I'm right there with you guys as well... small kids, 40, 26er... I've built all my bikes, and I'm no racer I ride by myself, or I'm pulling a trailer with my kids in the back. 26ers work fine for me and there is nothing wrong with any of my bikes. I like that they handle well in twisty technical trails, even if I'm slower, and have to work harder. In fact, I like mountain biking because it is hard and you have to have the skills to ride the bike over rougher terrain. Not getting rid of my Homegrown HT, MotoLite, 575, Ventana Pantera or the LocoMoto.

  86. #486
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    I'll be 47 years old 2 weeks after my third child is born at the end of this coming August. I'm getting back into mountain biking to start getting cardio exercise again and shed some pounds so I can keep up with these kids (1 son is incoming, 1 son is 3 years old, and my daughter will be 18 this year). Otherwise I'll be the lethargic old guy in his late 50's or early 60's when these boys are teenagers. I always used to need to be on top of the tech game with the latest & greatest toys but now priorities have changed. I enjoy things that have been with me for years or decades more than the latest & greatest shiny new toys. My Super V has been in a state of disassembly for weeks now and I need to get it back together so I can get riding!

  87. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I'll be 47 years old 2 weeks after my third child is born at the end of this coming August. I'm getting back into mountain biking to start getting cardio exercise again and shed some pounds so I can keep up with these kids (1 son is incoming, 1 son is 3 years old, and my daughter will be 18 this year). Otherwise I'll be the lethargic old guy in his late 50's or early 60's when these boys are teenagers. I always used to need to be on top of the tech game with the latest & greatest toys but now priorities have changed. I enjoy things that have been with me for years or decades more than the latest & greatest shiny new toys. My Super V has been in a state of disassembly for weeks now and I need to get it back together so I can get riding!
    Totally agree on the tried and true comment... and same here, I ride the bikes I have to get myself in shape, I'm not racing anyone, just trying to improve myself. Everything on my bikes works, there is no need for me to get any of the latest gadgets... and in any case they wouldn't even fit my bikes anymore. I did get several spare 26er parts when they were cheap to stock up... so I'll be good for a while. I'm hopeful that my 2 girls (2 and 6) will want to go riding on the trail with me... we shall see.

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    I've read through a bunch of these responses and one thing I haven't seen mentioned nearly as much is how most of the former "standards" that were in play during the end of the 26 era have also gone away. I have 2 bikes in 26", a 93 WTB Phoenix and an 08 Turner 5.spot. It's nearly impossible to replace the fork on eaither bike, 1 because it's a 1" steerer and cantilevers and the other because it's a 1 1/8" straight steerer. I never imagined that in just 10 years a bike could go from the top of the line to a dinosaur.

    Other things....tire choices, rim choices, axle standards, etc etc etc

  89. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
    I have 2 bikes in 26", a 93 WTB Phoenix and an 08 Turner 5.spot. It's nearly impossible to replace the fork on eaither bike, 1 because it's a 1" steerer and cantilevers and the other because it's a 1 1/8" straight steerer. I never imagined that in just 10 years a bike could go from the top of the line to a dinosaur.
    The bike industry must be loving it. I've a friend in the same boat, whose $3500 bike will be nothing but a boat anchor once his current fork is done. He'd love to upgrade, but he's SOL because everything today is tapered.

  90. #490
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    Rocking my 26" Scott Spark, but with 650b wheels. 1 1/8 fork Dt swiss 150mm fork with launch control, dream bike!

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  91. #491
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    Thats the thing getting parts. I recently wanted to get some rim brake wheels...ugh that was a pain.

    People say that you can still get this or that...and yes you can, if you look at the bottom end of the craptastic market, but I really don't want to put a low end boat anchor fork or some cheep heavy flexy rims on my top end frame that I love to bits, I want the good stuff.
    You have to like hit up ebay for NOS that may or may be legit, or go 2nd hand which could get you something good, or get you someone else's old crap that needs a rebuild more than the stuff you're replacing.
    On top of in these parts of the world, either people figure out early that there was going to be a demand for old parts, or they just wanted top dollar from the start, but stuff ain't cheap.
    All the gear and no idea.

  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    People say that you can still get this or that...and yes you can, if you look at the bottom end of the craptastic market...
    I understand your point but the situation is not completely unreasonable. For example the rim-brake rims you're looking for, rim brakes have not been used on hi-end mountain bikes for a long time. What are you talking, over ten years? A lot of consumer products are no longer supported at that sort of age and many people would consider it a reasonable life span.

    I hate waste myself and try to keep things running for as long as possible but it's hard to be too annoyed at the manufacturer for not making components that few people still want to buy. A few years ago Fox did a run of 26'' straight steerer forks with current tech in them specifically for guys like us. They were not cheap and I did wonder if they sold them all at full price. Most people with older 26'' bikes would not sink top money into a fork for them.

  93. #493
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    Fox still lists a couple 26" forks, with straight steerers and even old school QRs, but they're in the neighborhood of $8-900. From my research for my Turner, I can rebuild my King front hub from QR to 15mm TA, which would help a lot with how flexy it is, but still, would be into that swap for well over a grand and the rear end would still be a noodle, it's still a 9spd rear, so many outdated and un-supported parts. So now I'm looking at used newer, bikes because my money will go a lot further.

    I don't know if any of you guys are into Fat Bikes at all, but they have gone through this big time over the last 10 years. Basically from birth, and now through 3-5 different hub "standards" and they have settled on 150/197.....for now.....
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  94. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
    Fox still lists a couple 26" forks, with straight steerers and even old school QRs, but they're in the neighborhood of $8-900..
    So, cost more than just about any bike you might put them on is worth?

  95. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
    Fox still lists a couple 26" forks, with straight steerers and even old school QRs, but they're in the neighborhood of $8-900. From my research for my Turner, I can rebuild my King front hub from QR to 15mm TA, which would help a lot with how flexy it is, but still, would be into that swap for well over a grand and the rear end would still be a noodle, it's still a 9spd rear, so many outdated and un-supported parts. So now I'm looking at used newer, bikes because my money will go a lot further.

    ....
    I have seen those Fox forks too but at $900 I ruled them out due to cost. It was just throwing money away i thought. I am now keeping an eye on Ebay but so far nothing. I think I am now leaning towards just buying newer used bike just for the ease of finding parts. It just sucks because minus the crappy fork I have, the rest of my bike is in decent shape.

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Thats the thing getting parts. I recently wanted to get some rim brake wheels...ugh that was a pain.

    People say that you can still get this or that...and yes you can, if you look at the bottom end of the craptastic market, but I really don't want to put a low end boat anchor fork or some cheep heavy flexy rims on my top end frame that I love to bits, I want the good stuff.
    You have to like hit up ebay for NOS that may or may be legit, or go 2nd hand which could get you something good, or get you someone else's old crap that needs a rebuild more than the stuff you're replacing.
    On top of in these parts of the world, either people figure out early that there was going to be a demand for old parts, or they just wanted top dollar from the start, but stuff ain't cheap.
    I just built a GT Zaskar carbon 100 less than 2 years ago and just replaced the front fork with a new 2014 Fox Talas 32 tapered steerer 15mm through axle got delivered yesterday and paid 310 bucks. I only run it in the 120mm travel mode because that's the max the frame is speced to but if I build another All mountain rig I can use this fork and run it in the 150mm travel they are all over on eBay seriously. High end wheels are all over the place as well if you know the brands your looking for my wheels are sram rise 60 carbons got the set new on ebay. This entire bike was built will all new full xtr and weighs in at 25 lbs as it sits. The frame was new as well.
    The wheel set is the stiffest carbon wheels I have ever ridden on a mountain bike. I also built up a new trek 9.9 elite ssl with full xtr and new carbon triple x lite wheels and a brand new rockshox world cup xx with carbon steerer all off of eBay bike weighs 21 lbs as it sits. Both these frames were new in the box and so were the wheels.
    These bikes in there current build from Trek and GT retailed for over 7,000 dollars a piece I built them both for less than that with no used parts anywhere. If you got the legs for it the hardtail accelerates like a rocket the frame is unbelievablely stiff. The GT is very stiff as well. Still no regrets and I couldn't be happier with how these bike turned out. I still need to clean up the cables on the trek I just haven't had time having too much fun riding it.
    Thing is your going to have to still pay the wheels on my trek were 3000 dollars new back in the day I paid 700 for the set. Same with the rise 60 wheels they were around 3000 as well and I paid 750 for the set. There are loads of 100mm to 150mm travel forks either used or new take offs never ridden for under 400 dollars you just need to look better. Out off all these parts I bought off eBay I didn't get burned once. Use common sense and don't buy anything you can't return in a certain time frame.
    Get the shock go to fox website and look up the serial number to verify it's a legit fork. That's what I did because fox made a lot of great changes to the talas in 2014 it was kind of crappy the year prior. I was able to verify through fox and see that it is in fact a a 2014 Talas.

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  97. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I understand your point but the situation is not completely unreasonable. For example the rim-brake rims you're looking for, rim brakes have not been used on hi-end mountain bikes for a long time. What are you talking, over ten years? A lot of consumer products are no longer supported at that sort of age and many people would consider it a reasonable life span.

    I hate waste myself and try to keep things running for as long as possible but it's hard to be too annoyed at the manufacturer for not making components that few people still want to buy. A few years ago Fox did a run of 26'' straight steerer forks with current tech in them specifically for guys like us. They were not cheap and I did wonder if they sold them all at full price. Most people with older 26'' bikes would not sink top money into a fork for them.
    Oh yeah I completely understand (more of a grumpy rant), it's frustrating to me, but I understand that companies arne't going to make top end stuff for a market that doesn't exist...I just wish they would...just for me.
    All the gear and no idea.

  98. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmike24 View Post
    I just built a GT Zaskar carbon 100 less than 2 years ago and just replaced the front fork with a new 2014 Fox Talas 32 tapered steerer 15mm through axle got delivered yesterday and paid 310 bucks. I only run it in the 120mm travel mode because that's the max the frame is speced to but if I build another All mountain rig I can use this fork and run it in the 150mm travel they are all over on eBay seriously. High end wheels are all over the place as well if you know the brands your looking for my wheels are sram rise 60 carbons got the set new on ebay. This entire bike was built will all new full xtr and weighs in at 25 lbs as it sits. The frame was new as well.
    The wheel set is the stiffest carbon wheels I have ever ridden on a mountain bike. I also built up a new trek 9.9 elite ssl with full xtr and new carbon triple x lite wheels and a brand new rockshox world cup xx with carbon steerer all off of eBay bike weighs 21 lbs as it sits. Both these frames were new in the box and so were the wheels.
    These bikes in there current build from Trek and GT retailed for over 7,000 dollars a piece I built them both for less than that with no used parts anywhere. If you got the legs for it the hardtail accelerates like a rocket the frame is unbelievablely stiff. The GT is very stiff as well. Still no regrets and I couldn't be happier with how these bike turned out. I still need to clean up the cables on the trek I just haven't had time having too much fun riding it.
    Thing is your going to have to still pay the wheels on my trek were 3000 dollars new back in the day I paid 700 for the set. Same with the rise 60 wheels they were around 3000 as well and I paid 750 for the set. There are loads of 100mm to 150mm travel forks either used or new take offs never ridden for under 400 dollars you just need to look better. Out off all these parts I bought off eBay I didn't get burned once. Use common sense and don't buy anything you can't return in a certain time frame.
    Get the shock go to fox website and look up the serial number to verify it's a legit fork. That's what I did because fox made a lot of great changes to the talas in 2014 it was kind of crappy the year prior. I was able to verify through fox and see that it is in fact a a 2014 Talas.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Yeah sure...but really you're talking recent standards there, you carbon wheels won't work well with rim brakes and the tapered steerer wont fit a regular 1-1/8 headtube...
    But you're right there are things to be had, from stores and ebay...especially 2 years ago, less now. And I have used both to get lots of gear. Got my Marzocchi forks 1/2 price, same with my AMclassic wheels and I think I got the last Manitou R7 80mm rim brake fork NOS on the planet for not much..
    So it's not that suff doesn't exist, just that it getting harder and harder, especially if you dont live in the US
    All the gear and no idea.

  99. #499
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    ..I understand that companies aren't going to make top end stuff for a market that doesn't exist...I just wish they would...just for me.
    Well they might, but if they do it'll cost you a fortune!

  100. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Thats the thing getting parts. I recently wanted to get some rim brake wheels...ugh that was a pain.

    People say that you can still get this or that...and yes you can, if you look at the bottom end of the craptastic market, but I really don't want to put a low end boat anchor fork or some cheep heavy flexy rims on my top end frame that I love to bits, I want the good stuff.
    You have to like hit up ebay for NOS that may or may be legit, or go 2nd hand which could get you something good, or get you someone else's old crap that needs a rebuild more than the stuff you're replacing.
    On top of in these parts of the world, either people figure out early that there was going to be a demand for old parts, or they just wanted top dollar from the start, but stuff ain't cheap.
    Took me 2 minutes of searching eBay found a brand new rim brake wheel set XTR 970 rim brake tubeless 9 speed wheels 948.00 bucks plus 60 shipping yikes that's steep for those wheels but they are top of the line just like you looking for. Also found a load more of nice rim brake wheel sets as well.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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