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  1. #301
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    Like many have posted before, it's paid for and familiar. It does look a little odd when viewed from the side on my xl frame compared to newer bikes with bigger wheels and slacker head angles. I love that look though.

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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    The only issues with coil compared to air is weight and less adjustability. You may need to purchase different springs to match your weight, and even then you might not get it as dialed as an air spring. Coil forks have less seals, so they are usually a bit more plush and require less maintenance. If an air fork and coil fork have the same damping and rebound cartridges (or whatever system), there isn't a universal "better". I'd much prefer a coil with a better compression circuit than an air with a more basic circuit. I usually don't mind an extra couple hundred grams if it works better or costs significantly less.
    I think I need to reiterate what I'm trying to do. I have two bikes, one has a 100mm coil that I'm actually happy with. Again no jumps no boulders, just basic XC stuff. The other has an 80mm coil that, as I've upgraded other stuff on the bike, mechanical disks to hydraulics, thin front tire to thicker front tire, the fork seems increasingly the black sheep in the family of components on the bike. It went from 'one of the problems of a cheap bike' to the main problem. Not that the freewheel-based drivetrain and derailleurs are not annoying to constantly tune, but that's a different issue than simply replacing a fork.

    I've learned a lot on this site in the last 4 months, and I appreciate all of the good feedback, but my #1 pet peeve is that there is not a dedicated stand-alone XC webpage on here. Not an XC racing/enduro webpage, but a page where all bikers with 60-100mm (maybe 120mm) forks can talk about stuff like this, and other issues with XC bikes like gearing, what trails their bikes can and cannot handle, etc. And real, technical XC discussion in the beginners corner is very chaotic and contentious, everyone claiming to know more than the other poster. It can be a minefield in there.

    The 100mm Suntour coil fork has a bad reputation on here, but is that because it's a horrible fork, period, or it it because it would not do well on all-mountain or downhill stuff? If the person doing the critical review of the 100mm Suntour coil rides 130mm+ forks, then yes, Suntour I guess is inferior for what THEY are doing with their bike. But look at the reviews on Amazon for this fork:

    https://www.amazon.com/SR-SUNTOUR-Mo...ork&th=1&psc=1

    22 reviews, 4.5 out of 5 stars, lowest rating was 3/5 stars from only 2 of the 22 reviewers. Obviously those 22 reviews didn't come from people on MTBR!!!


    However, with some fortuitous digging I found two 100mm AIR (keyword: air) forks for a 26":
    SR Suntour Epixon XC MTB Fork 26", Travel 100mm, with Remote Lockout (not include the cable housings), Air Spring, QR 9mm, White OEM Package $178

    Manitou M-THIRTY M30 Mountain Bike Bicycle Cycling Fork 26" Lockout 100mm 9mmQR $199

    (I don't trust RST and GUB products so they don't count for the 100mm 26" air fork search).

    Now, back to what I'm trying to do: ride rocky trails on a hardtail, not fast, not too steep, and have a relatively smooth ride doing it. Again, no jumps, no boulders, nothing even more than an 8-inch drop. So, in your opinion(s) do I even need an air fork or can I live with a coil forever? For replacing the 80 mm fork, I would almost for sure go with 100mm just because, but the question is coil or air. I've heard the ride is smoother, I've also heard the ride is firmer! I've never had an air fork on a bike so it's natural to wonder about how it would be different.

    Maybe I'm on too many tangents with the reply so to be 100% to the point: will a 100mm (or even 120mm) air fork significantly help smooth out rocky trails or not? If so, then I do both air fork upgrades on both bikes. If not, then I keep the 27.5" 100mm coil stock, and upgrade the 26" to a 100mm coil for only $70 (same Suntour XCT coil as the 27.5" just a 26" fork). Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by richj8990; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:30 PM.

  3. #303
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    the thing is your questions are not comign from the right direction...eg:

    "will a 100mm (or even 120mm) air fork significantly help smooth out rocky trails or not?"

    No...yes...maybe. it all depends...
    If you said, will spending around $1000 on ANY fork be better... hells yes
    Ifyou said, if I spend 50cents on THE EXACT SAME fork, willit be better...yes, for about 5 minutes, then will be the same
    If you said, my fork is toast, I NEED TO REPLACE IT with something that will work, then sure buying a sunour or rst or whatever, will be perfectly fine

    But... you want to IMPROVE, that the key thing, you arnt wanting similar performance, you are wanting better, measurable better performance. And at the stuff you're looking at, that's not really going to happen. Air or coil isn't really the issue, they both work (how well depends on how much you're willing to spend).
    It's more about what the fork IS, than how much travel or whether its air or coil.
    As with everything mtb there is the law of diminishing returns, there gets to a point where spending more doesn't get you mcuh better, but sending less dosn't get you as good, and spending way less just gets you junk...you're in the spending way less area

    eg this will be so, so, sooooooooooooo much better than a 120mm suntour
    https://www.ebay.com/p/RockShox-Reba...r=540493375879

    you better off finding new old stock, good forks, than new low end forks.
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  4. #304
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    most of my riding right now is commuting as I dont have a working car at the moment and no $$ to fix it.....right now I have both of my bikes set up as commuter bikes

    my winter commuter is the 97 rockhopper posted earlier in this thead.....
    SS,beach cruiser tires( for now, I have a set of knobbies as backup) and its put together with mostly used parts, the manitou pro x cartridge fork seized up... I took it apart and it was done, all rusted inside from the time it spent outside before I got it in very rough condition... recently put a rigid fork on it, gave it a rustolem key lime paint job.... just need to put fenders on it

    my main bike is a 2013 GT aggressor I got for free from an older relative after he got knocked of the bike by a car, it did need new handlebars a front derailleur cable.... tires are 26x2.3 Kenda K-RAD front and rear.... they are rated up to 80 psi, but I run about 60 psi... nice rolling tires for urban use... were put on right before the crash... dont really care for the fork....its the bottom of the line SR Suntour fork.... what some would call a pogo stick..lol....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 26? What's the point??!!-blazer-084.jpg  

    26? What's the point??!!-20155941_10154570617570303_5518123410505571702_n.jpg  

    26? What's the point??!!-19990399_10154551295435303_5832776407163960917_n.jpg  

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  5. #305
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    My question is, would they be going back to 26'' if it was still offered?

    LINK

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    My question is, would they be going back to 26'' if it was still offered?

    LINK
    Not that I know what a pro is thinking, but I liken this to (modified) auto racing or stock auto track racing. Those racing groups have to stay in certain groups with certain parameters. Technology has of course advanced a lot in sports/race cars as well, and many pro drivers complain that the sports/race car is sterile now, no manual transmission anymore at that level, a bunch of electronic nannies, traction control, stability control, etc. The pros love to turn those off so they have more control over the car instead of the computer system. Maybe it's the same with 29" vs. 27.5". 29" is technically superior, but the soul and fun of biking may be lost a bit. Just like a smaller sports car may be just as fun or more than a V-12 GT that's larger and weighs 500 lbs more. And the smaller car may be just as fast and more nimble (Lamborghini Huracan V-10 vs. Aventador V-12). But for 26", maybe that's pushing it. A Mazda Miata may be fun to drive but it's not going to win races against a Porsche Cayman or BMW M2, those (relatively) larger sports cars would be the equivalent of a 27.5" bike: large enough to have 18-20 inch wheels and thus handle almost anything, but small enough to still be nimble. Dark horse: Audi TTRS. Those are the three sports cars I'd like no matter how much money I ever make or 'get' in the future. I don't need a Ferrari (or a 29" bike). Just a fun bike and a fun sports car.

  7. #307
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    Can the old saying in the automotive world, "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow." be applied here?

    If, and it's a big if, one means that a 26" mountain bike wheel is slower, the yeah, maybe.

    I'm saying, it depends.

    How about this quote:

    "“Driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow,”; it’s a tired old saw, but not without merit. I’d change it to, “driving a fun car fast is more fun than driving a fast car fast.” Whether or not a car is enjoyable to drive is almost entirely divorced from its performance prowess."

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...ance-of-speed/

    The point being made is subjective. Fine. The realm of personal preference is not imaginary. It is not exactly scientifically quantifiable, yet it can be analyzed methodically if we liked. We could map it out using a topological analog to parsing a linguistic form.

    Instead we usually resort to poetry and swear words.

    26" is a form with limitations, similar to something like engine displacement. 26" is now almost like a vintage class, or classical form.

    It's also like a musical form in terms of composition and performance.

    What kind of music do you want to make?

    As for myself, sometimes I want to just sit down at the piano and play; other times I want to get all electronic.

    Most times, the 26" SS bikes are the ones I choose to ride on the local trails.





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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    large enough to have 18-20 inch wheels and thus handle almost anything, but small enough to still be nimble.
    What does that even mean?
    All the gear and no idea.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    What does that even mean?
    This is REALLY getting off topic, maybe it needs to go over to off-camber.

    As in the mountain bike world, there is also some controversy in the automobile world about tire sizes. There are some interesting parallels. Small auto tire size (actually wheel size), say 15 inches = quick acceleration, slightly better gas mileage. Larger, wider tires with low-profile rims = better handling, higher top speed. However, there is a limit to this. Car and Driver did a study with a Volkswagen Golf, putting 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 inch tires on the car. They then hooked up computer equipment and analyzed handling. The stock wheel size I think was 17 inches. The optimal handling was at 18 inches, not 19 or 20 inches. Now, to compare this to mountain bikes, we are talking about a car that weighs over 3000 lbs, so I'm not sure you can extrapolate over and say that the sweet spot in handling is a 27.5" tire. The analogy I'm trying to make is that a Mazda Miata would be the equivalent of a 26" bike, Porsche, BMW, Audi and other average-sized sports cars the equivalent of a 27.5" bike, and Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, etc. the equivalent of a 29" bike. Those larger sports cars put up huge numbers but are probably not as fun to drive as the smaller sports cars. Similarly, see Pig's link about XC racers feeling that a 27.5" tire is more fun than a 29" tire. But not a 26" (at least in that story). Moral of the story: more is not always better. There is a sweet spot for "frame" size and tire size in the auto world just as in the mountain bike world.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    This is REALLY getting off topic, maybe it needs to go over to off-camber.

    As in the mountain bike world, there is also some controversy in the automobile world about tire sizes. There are some interesting parallels. Small auto tire size (actually wheel size), say 15 inches = quick acceleration, slightly better gas mileage. Larger, wider tires with low-profile rims = better handling, higher top speed. However, there is a limit to this. Car and Driver did a study with a Volkswagen Golf, putting 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 inch tires on the car. They then hooked up computer equipment and analyzed handling. The stock wheel size I think was 17 inches. The optimal handling was at 18 inches, not 19 or 20 inches. Now, to compare this to mountain bikes, we are talking about a car that weighs over 3000 lbs, so I'm not sure you can extrapolate over and say that the sweet spot in handling is a 27.5" tire. The analogy I'm trying to make is that a Mazda Miata would be the equivalent of a 26" bike, Porsche, BMW, Audi and other average-sized sports cars the equivalent of a 27.5" bike, and Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, etc. the equivalent of a 29" bike. Those larger sports cars put up huge numbers but are probably not as fun to drive as the smaller sports cars. Similarly, see Pig's link about XC racers feeling that a 27.5" tire is more fun than a 29" tire. But not a 26" (at least in that story). Moral of the story: more is not always better. There is a sweet spot for "frame" size and tire size in the auto world just as in the mountain bike world.
    The car analogy fails to transfer over to mountain bikes well at all.
    The issue being that probably 90% of how fast a bike will go and what terrain it can handle, etc etc is determined by the riders skills and fitness. With a car, 90% of performance is determined by who's better at shopping. A lot of people try to use this method to get better/faster at mountain biking ("what can I buy that will make me a better rider"). It doesn't work.
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  11. #311
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    I like round wheels
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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    I like round wheels
    Because they're faster.

  13. #313
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    yeah, faster then square.. octagon is slightly less rough. oval is like riding a raging bull
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  14. #314
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    I have reached the point of no return.

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  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The car analogy fails to transfer over to mountain bikes well at all.
    The issue being that probably 90% of how fast a bike will go and what terrain it can handle, etc etc is determined by the riders skills and fitness. With a car, 90% of performance is determined by who's better at shopping. A lot of people try to use this method to get better/faster at mountain biking ("what can I buy that will make me a better rider"). It doesn't work.
    It does and it doesn't. Much of the faster acceleration is taken care of by low gearing on the bikes we're likely to ride.
    On a car, well, I knew a guy in HS with GTO. He'd put these small diameter slicks on when he went to the strip. The same law/s of physics apply to gearing no matter what you drive or pedal.
    You're 100% correct in that many of us try to get something to ride better and we usually fail.
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  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    I like round wheels
    Aw, come on. Get them new corkscrew wheels. At least you'll be able to blame them when you crash on that twisty downhill.
    DAMN THE MUD, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The car analogy fails to transfer over to mountain bikes well at all.
    The issue being that probably 90% of how fast a bike will go and what terrain it can handle, etc etc is determined by the riders skills and fitness. With a car, 90% of performance is determined by who's better at shopping. A lot of people try to use this method to get better/faster at mountain biking ("what can I buy that will make me a better rider"). It doesn't work.
    The original question posted by Pig is if the 26" is going to make a comeback in XC racing. I actually read parts of the article. The gist of the story is that the racers that originally chose a 29" are often going smaller to a 27.5". No mention was made about going back to a 26". They talked as much about the smaller tire being more fun as they did about performance. They preferred a 27.5" tire for subjective reasons, not because it made them faster.

    As far as skills and fitness is concerned, I also snicker at the guys who "have to" spend $2000-5000 on a bike just because everyone else is doing it. However, are you saying that a bike with a 3x7 drivetrain with a 14-28t freewheel, not to mention an 80mm fork and 1.95 inch back tire, (and assume stock cheap mechanical disks) can handle an all-mountain trail just because of a rider's skills and fitness? I'd really like to see that, and see how they end up avoiding running out of low gears and having the rear tire slip and stop on a steep dirt incline. Seriously, if you have any videos of someone successfully riding a cheaper bike on all-mountain trails I'd really like to study how they do it. Because I can't do it on a cheaper bike. XC trails no problem. All-mountain trails = need to get off the cheaper XC bike multiple times. And going off 3 foot boulders or jumps with an 80mm fork, is that skill or is it just dumb?

  18. #318
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    sorry I should have bolded the "and thus handle almost anything" as well that makes no sense.The car analagy is kinda almost, but not really.

    here was an article in Autosport many years ago with the head guy at Wiliams Renaut touring car team he was saying the only, only reason they used 18in wheels was so they could run the brakes they run. Havingthe big wheels and low profile tyres gave them headaches in setting up the suspension.
    Evo (or it was Performance car back then, same thing though) did a test, took a stock Audi A4 turbo and put bigger wheels on it and comparison tested it and it was junk, because of the extra rotating weight and the suspension wasn't designed for the stiffer sidwalls, it was measurable slower n test course.
    Of couse these days most cars are designed around bigger wheels, but it's mostly for looks over function, unless your wheesl wont clearthe brake calipers you don'need huge wheels...a Mclaren F1 will pretty much hose any car you mentioned, yet only runs 17inch wheels. it's not the size of the wheels, its the package it comes in. ANd again the drive does a whole lot in that package.

    But its the same with bikes, the wheel size and the drivetrain play a small part in the package.
    You'l find that tere are peopel out there that could jump on your bike and ride it down a trail that you couldn't ride aan AM bike down, sure it'll be hard and they won't like, but they can do it,give them a $5000 bike and then they can do it easily.
    Rider skill is one thing, having the best tool for the job is another.


    Now heres a vid, from like 1998 I think, and yes quite a few FS bikes, but also quite a ot of HTs and were talking 80mm travel with rim brakes, so not even the luxury of discs for these guys... (especially at the ~20min mark)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqpz9APFhsY
    Last edited by mik_git; 1 Week Ago at 08:14 AM.
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  19. #319
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    also queue the vids of the guy riding a bike park on a wallmart bike or the guy riding whistler on a cross bike...
    All the gear and no idea.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    .

    , are you saying that a bike with a 3x7 drivetrain with a 14-28t freewheel, not to mention an 80mm fork and 1.95 inch back tire, (and assume stock cheap mechanical disks) can handle an all-mountain trail just because of a rider's skills and fitness?
    Yes. Absolutely, undeniably and inarguably yes.
    Anyone that has actually spent any time at all riding with talented riders will agree 100%.

    As far as easily verified evidence, I would start by presenting all mountain biking that took place prior to the year 2000.

    It was the pre digital-era, so I don't have many pics or video, but I've seen incredible riding done on bikes that the internet gear-weenies of today would undoubtedly blame for all their shortcomings.

    Someday I'll get around to scanning my old pics.
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  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yes. Absolutely, undeniably and inarguably yes.
    Anyone that has actually spent any time at all riding with talented riders will agree 100%.

    As far as easily verified evidence, I would start by presenting all mountain biking that took place prior to the year 2000.

    It was the pre digital-era, so I don't have many pics or video, but I've seen incredible riding done on bikes that the internet gear-weenies of today would undoubtedly blame for all their shortcomings.

    Someday I'll get around to scanning my old pics.
    I would like to back up this statement.

    Skill > Technology.
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  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I would like to back up this statement.

    Skill > Technology.
    Yessir.
    Skill and/or the right attitude will get you through almost anything on the trail, shopping skills notwithstanding.

    Chances are about 100% that there're a a whole bunch of random kids on brakeless BMX shitboxes, with duct tape for grips, all over the world doing things daily that almost no one on a $5000 MTB is pulling off. Cuz they're out riding while MTBers are crying about gear ratios, grams and mm's.

    I'll just leave this here to answer any possible concerns about needing a certain amount of gears or wheel size or amount of suspension, or even disc brakes, to ride up or down challenging terrain.

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  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Skillz...
    But those people are in Europe.
    They use the metric system, totally different thing.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yessir.
    Skill and/or the right attitude will get you through almost anything on the trail, shopping skills notwithstanding.

    Chances are about 100% that there're a a whole bunch of random kids on brakeless BMX shitboxes, with duct tape for grips, all over the world doing things daily that almost no one on a $5000 MTB is pulling off. Cuz they're out riding while MTBers are crying about gear ratios, grams and mm's.

    I'll just leave this here to answer any possible concerns about needing a certain amount of gears or wheel size or amount of suspension, or even disc brakes, to ride up or down challenging terrain.

    Skillz...
    I think the above posted Kranked video is a better illustration of what is possible on old tech than the trials video. Not to take anything away from trials, but it is not much like riding a bike forward as their wheels almost never roll. Those guys could possibly even benefit from the square wheels we were just joking about.

    But I so love seeing kids rip it on little BMX bikes.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by akindofbrian View Post
    I think the above posted Kranked video is a better illustration of what is possible on old tech than the trials video. Not to take anything away from trials, but it is not much like riding a bike forward as their wheels almost never roll. Those guys could possibly even benefit from the square wheels we were just joking about..
    Definitely not trail riding, but for sure demonstrates the point.
    If those guys can do that with no gears or suspension etc then there really isn't any good reason someone should believe it's impossible to ride a run of the mill MTB trail with 20 more gears and a couple inches of suspension. I can also guarantee that any trail that richj is riding has been handles easily countless times by people on rigid SS mtbs.

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  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    But those people are in Europe.
    They use the metric system, totally different thing.
    And we are proud of it.
    We can ride every day because of it.

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    And we are proud of it.
    We can ride every day because of it.
    I was joking, since many MTB enthusiasts in the US have no idea about this culture.
    At best, they think someone misspelled 'trails'.

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    I was joking, since many MTB enthusiasts in the US have no idea about this culture.
    At best, they think someone misspelled 'trails'.
    This one has both trials and trails! Can we guess the wheel sizes?



    Finally a topic shift I can enjoy! I love watching this stuff, never tried it aside from random moves on the mtb. Back in the day on the BMX bike tho...

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Definitely not trail riding, but for sure demonstrates the point.
    If those guys can do that with no gears or suspension etc then there really isn't any good reason someone should believe it's impossible to ride a run of the mill MTB trail with 20 more gears and a couple inches of suspension. I can also guarantee that any trail that richj is riding has been handles easily countless times by people on rigid SS mtbs.

    Oh yeah, I agree with that. And you're totally speaking my language, as I'm on a 12 year old, rigid, 26" singlespeed with canti breaks. Not that I'm claiming I can ride any trail on it. But it is my only bike, so everywhere I ride, it is on that bike

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    This one has both trials and trails! Can we guess the wheel sizes?



    Finally a topic shift I can enjoy! I love watching this stuff, never tried it aside from random moves on the mtb. Back in the day on the BMX bike tho...
    Been lucky enough to ride with some good trials riders, both bicycle and moto.
    Gives you a whole new perspective on what's possible.
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  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Definitely not trail riding, but for sure demonstrates the point.
    If those guys can do that with no gears or suspension etc then there really isn't any good reason someone should believe it's impossible to ride a run of the mill MTB trail with 20 more gears and a couple inches of suspension. I can also guarantee that any trail that richj is riding has been handles easily countless times by people on rigid SS mtbs.


    Sweetwater Grand Loop, San Diego County April 26, 2009

    Reviewed by: sjordan72 , Cross Country Rider

    Summary:
    So, I have been riding the same out and back here for years, and decided to do some exploring today, unfortunately on my singlespeed. I found a great set of switchbacks up to Mother Miguel Mountain. From the area of the power trasfer station, head up the singletrack toward the really tall power poles, then up the road a bit. There's a section that leads to the residential area at Paseo Los Gatos. Don't take that. Where that begins look for a trail off of the old road that leads West. A long bit of singletrack switchbacks all the way up to the peak, about 1000 feet over your head. Sorry I can't be more specific. I just stumbled onto it myself today. The route down feeds into one of the SDGE access roads and down to the Lake, but I think there is a singletrack path. It looks to be there on Google Earth. I'll try to find it soon. BTW, no shade up there. Best done before noon if in the summer months.


    "...unfortunately on my singlespeed". As in he had a lot of problems with these trails on a singlespeed. It was not handled easily. Maybe his case is an outlier. I've never seen any singlespeeds out there on this particular set of trails. Experience and bike-wise I'm just a small fry out there, but this is a big boy trail section and singlespeeds are just not going to cut it. I cannot prove that 100%, I can just show you evidence from other MTBR rider quotes about them regretting bringing their singlespeed to the trails I go on several times a week. I'm not bragging, I struggle on some sections out there too. A singlespeed is simply not going up the inclines there.

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    Is this the place?

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  33. #333
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    "...unfortunately on my singlespeed" could mean he had lots of troubles, or could mean that it just made it a hard days work, it's not normally a the most fun to ride a new trail, an unknown trail on a bike that makes the hardest work, doesn't mean he couldn't ride it.

    But also, here's a tip, since we don't know your riding etc, if you haven't got it already, and have a smartphone, download strava, and use that on your next few rides, it will tell you exactly where you sit in the pecking order of who can ride what.
    All the gear and no idea.

  34. #334
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    Picked up my carbon Stumpy FSR Evo in 2013 and see no reason to replace it yet when it works perfectly fine. Forced obsolescence is not a reason for me to upgrade to a new bike. It definitely doesn't make my bike any less fun on the trails.

  35. #335
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    I love my 26ers because it lets me make fun of my friends that have 29ers for no reason without being a hypocrite

    Are those 29ers? Pfft.
    I can do sick whips on my razor scooter.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Chances are about 100% that there're a a whole bunch of random kids on brakeless BMX shitboxes, with duct tape for grips, all over the world doing things daily that almost no one on a $5000 MTB is pulling off. Cuz they're out riding while MTBers are crying about gear ratios, grams and mm's.]
    This. 1000 times.

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    This. 1000 times.
    Yup
    DAMN THE MUD, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    Can the old saying in the automotive world, "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow." be applied here?

    If, and it's a big if, one means that a 26" mountain bike wheel is slower, the yeah, maybe.

    I'm saying, it depends.

    How about this quote:

    "“Driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow,”; it’s a tired old saw, but not without merit. I’d change it to, “driving a fun car fast is more fun than driving a fast car fast.” Whether or not a car is enjoyable to drive is almost entirely divorced from its performance prowess."

    The Unimportance of Speed - The Truth About Cars

    The point being made is subjective. Fine. The realm of personal preference is not imaginary. It is not exactly scientifically quantifiable, yet it can be analyzed methodically if we liked. We could map it out using a topological analog to parsing a linguistic form.

    Instead we usually resort to poetry and swear words.

    26" is a form with limitations, similar to something like engine displacement. 26" is now almost like a vintage class, or classical form.

    It's also like a musical form in terms of composition and performance.

    What kind of music do you want to make?

    As for myself, sometimes I want to just sit down at the piano and play; other times I want to get all electronic.

    Most times, the 26" SS bikes are the ones I choose to ride on the local trails.





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    Just realized that I posted here but didn't answer the question.
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  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    Chances are about 100% that there're a a whole bunch of random kids on brakeless BMX shitboxes, with duct tape for grips, all over the world doing things daily that almost no one on a $5000 MTB is pulling off. Cuz they're out riding while MTBers are crying about gear ratios, grams and mm's.]This. 1000 times.
    If you had a 14-28t freewheel you'd be crying too, don't deny it.

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    If you had a 14-28t freewheel you'd be crying too, don't deny it.
    I mainly ran 28t and 30t from my 20's until my early 40's when I started feeling it in my knees. Bikepacked with them even. And I'm by no means any sort of super-strong rider compared to countless others.

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  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yessir.
    Skill and/or the right attitude will get you through almost anything on the trail, shopping skills notwithstanding.

    Chances are about 100% that there're a a whole bunch of random kids on brakeless BMX shitboxes, with duct tape for grips, all over the world doing things daily that almost no one on a $5000 MTB is pulling off. Cuz they're out riding while MTBers are crying about gear ratios, grams and mm's.
    I love it....and would like to think I am , in a small way, one of those BMXers.

    Been reading the whole thread and it just keeps reinforcing my belief that as long as it rolls, and you know how to "Speak" to it, the specs of the bike don't matter.

    I have an ancient 26er, and a Surly Krampus, and have just as much fun riding both on the same trails. The only difference for me is the clearance the bigger wheels give me on techy terrain, but I also rode the same terrain on 26" wheels for years, and even on 20" BMX wheels for years before that.

    There has NEVER been a time that I was on any bike going "I would be having more fun if I had XXX on this bike"

    20, 26....neither ever "died" for me. 29 was just added on.
    "It's about having pointless fun in the woods...." - Walt
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  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    If you had a 14-28t freewheel you'd be crying too, don't deny it.

    28t is plenty for those tiny wheels, we all used to run that.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    If you had a 14-28t freewheel you'd be crying too, don't deny it.
    How do you think we all rode around 25-30 years ago? Sure more is better and the stuff we have now works way better than old thumbshifters and stuff, but it didn't stop us from riding up stuff. Heck there's stuff I used to ride up (or down) in monster gears that I can't ride up now with silly tiny gears...its this thing called fitness.
    All the gear and no idea.

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    How do you think we all rode around 25-30 years ago? Sure more is better and the stuff we have now works way better than old thumbshifters and stuff, but it didn't stop us from riding up stuff. Heck there's stuff I used to ride up (or down) in monster gears that I can't ride up now with silly tiny gears...its this thing called fitness.
    ...and the bravado of youth...

    when i was young, I never remember worrying about what would happen if I DIDN'T, or COULDN'T get up a hill/clear a jump/round a turn etc...
    "It's about having pointless fun in the woods...." - Walt
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  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    I love it....and would like to think I am , in a small way, one of those BMXers.

    Been reading the whole thread and it just keeps reinforcing my belief that as long as it rolls, and you know how to "Speak" to it, the specs of the bike don't matter.

    I have an ancient 26er, and a Surly Krampus, and have just as much fun riding both on the same trails. The only difference for me is the clearance the bigger wheels give me on techy terrain, but I also rode the same terrain on 26" wheels for years, and even on 20" BMX wheels for years before that.

    There has NEVER been a time that I was on any bike going "I would be having more fun if I had XXX on this bike"

    20, 26....neither ever "died" for me. 29 was just added on.
    There has been one thing that actually made riding a bike noticeably less fun for me. I had a 29er with chainstays that were just too long for my taste. Seriously, I would be thinking during rides that I would be having more fun with shorter chainstays. I know that some people will think I'm joking, but that one thing absolutely ruined an otherwise good bike.

  47. #347
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    yep that too... I don't have that any more thats for sure.
    All the gear and no idea.

  48. #348
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    I remember when cars were actually fun to drive. The suspension was stiff and communicative enough that you could feel exactly how much grip you had and what your tyres were doing. When manufacturers describe today's cars as 'sporty', I swear I do not know what they are taking about.

    Most drivers want comfort over handling and manufactures want to sell their cars to the highest number of people. So we have dull cars.

    I think bikes might be the same. Many bike innovations, like larger wheels, dull the experience and make life easier. They let the typical bike buyer, the middle-aged magazine addict, ride trails that would be too difficult for him otherwise. He can feel like a hero, riding his sedan around on tame trails, while these dull bikes mean that the only way more competent riders can drag a thrill out of them is by going ever faster and bigger.

    So technically, the bikes are better in that they can deal with harsher terrain more easily, but something of the spirit is slipping away. A Ferrari F40 will set you back one-and-a-half million today, and not because it's a comfortable car.


  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I remember when cars were actually fun to drive. The suspension was stiff and communicative enough that you could feel exactly how much grip you had and what your tyres were doing. When manufacturers describe today's cars as 'sporty', I swear I do not know what they are taking about.

    Most drivers want comfort over handling and manufactures want to sell their cars to the highest number of people. So we have dull cars.

    I think bikes might be the same. Many bike innovations, like larger wheels, dull the experience and make life easier. They let the typical bike buyer, the middle-aged magazine addict, ride trails that would be too difficult for him otherwise. He can feel like a hero, riding his sedan around on tame trails, while these dull bikes mean that the only way more competent riders can drag a thrill out of them is by going ever faster and bigger.

    So technically, the bikes are better in that they can deal with harsher terrain more easily, but something of the spirit is slipping away. A Ferrari F40 will set you back one-and-a-half million today, and not because it's a comfortable car.


    Good thoughts!

    My specialized HT rockhopper A1 Comp is the F40 of MTN bikes! ha ha! It's fast, light, handles like a dream and is intoxicating to ride! just like the F40. Compared to the full suspension 29ers of today which are like a new automatic corvette, yep their fast, BUUUUTTTTTT, they are soul'less!

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I remember when cars were actually fun to drive. The suspension was stiff and communicative enough that you could feel exactly how much grip you had and what your tyres were doing. When manufacturers describe today's cars as 'sporty', I swear I do not know what they are taking about.

    Most drivers want comfort over handling and manufactures want to sell their cars to the highest number of people. So we have dull cars.

    I think bikes might be the same. Many bike innovations, like larger wheels, dull the experience and make life easier. They let the typical bike buyer, the middle-aged magazine addict, ride trails that would be too difficult for him otherwise. He can feel like a hero, riding his sedan around on tame trails, while these dull bikes mean that the only way more competent riders can drag a thrill out of them is by going ever faster and bigger.

    So technically, the bikes are better in that they can deal with harsher terrain more easily, but something of the spirit is slipping away. A Ferrari F40 will set you back one-and-a-half million today, and not because it's a comfortable car.
    yeah actually thats a pretty good description... my FS bike, 120mm suspension is pretty comfy and cruisy. I'll admit with my current riding ability (fitness and skills, or more confidence in doing sketchy shit)I don't come close to the bikes abilities...but my 100mm aluminium HT, so far there's nothing I can't do on the FS bike I dont do on the HT and a few things I've done that I still struggle with o the FS bike, and I'm still faster pretty much everywhere and it's SO much more fun all the time.

    It's like I used to have an old RX7, great car, fun to drive, not the fasted thing around, but every time I got in it, I was excited, even the commute to work. These days I have an SUV, good car, fits bikes better than the RX7, 4litre turbo engine, 4wd, soaks up the miles easily in comfort, even does the twisties faster than the RX7...but its not "fun" to drive, it just goes places.
    All the gear and no idea.

  51. #351
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    what year was your RX? I had an 85

  52. #352
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    Seen the word Ferrari and had to go find this article link. Couldn't stop laughing at the way this guy talks about some cars and experiences. Highly entertaining to me.

    deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2<\/title><path d="M10,3.5l3-3,3,3Z" style="fill:%23fff;stroke:%23fff"/><path d="M0,3.5H10l3-3,3,3H26" style="fill:none;stroke:%231b3a4d"/><\/svg>')}.f_branding_on.blog-group-deadspin .editor-inner.post-content .pu
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  53. #353
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    Seen the word Ferrari and had to go find this article link.

    Couldn't stop laughing at the way this guy talks about some cars and experiences. Highly entertaining to me.







    deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2<\/title><path d="M10,3.5l3-3,3,3Z" style="fill:%23fff;stroke:%23fff"/><path d="M0,3.5H10l3-3,3,3H26" style="fill:none;stroke:%231b3a4d"/><\/svg>')}.f_branding_on.blog-group-deadspin .editor-inner.post-content .pu
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Adams View Post
    what year was your RX? I had an 85
    It was an '82, started with a stock 12A, then got the ever so mildest of ported 12A's, loved that car, sold it to my flatmate. A bunch of my mates are rotor heads. If I had a job, I'd probably have an FD.
    Replaced it with a Subaru Liberty RS (OZ special edition of the Legacy RS),my flatmate replaced it with an OZ spec R32 GTR.
    All the gear and no idea.

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    Seen the word Ferrari and had to go find this article link.

    Couldn't stop laughing at the way this guy talks about some cars and experiences. Highly entertaining to me.

    deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2<\/title><path d="M10,3.5l3-3,3,3Z" style="fill:%23fff;stroke:%23fff"/><path d="M0,3.5H10l3-3,3,3H26" style="fill:none;stroke:%231b3a4d"/><\/svg>')}.f_branding_on.blog-group-deadspin .editor-inner.post-content .pu
    LOL thats great... but i'd still like one.
    All the gear and no idea.

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    It was an '82, started with a stock 12A, then got the ever so mildest of ported 12A's, loved that car, sold it to my flatmate. A bunch of my mates are rotor heads. If I had a job, I'd probably have an FD.
    Replaced it with a Subaru Liberty RS (OZ special edition of the Legacy RS),my flatmate replaced it with an OZ spec R32 GTR.
    Ooooo R32 GTR...now were talking. My RX rusted to death! too bad

  57. #357
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    Nostalgia improves the quality of everything.
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  58. #358
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    I bet those new 1.3 million dollar Ferraris are no fun to drive at all.
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  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Adams View Post
    Ooooo R32 GTR...now were talking. My RX rusted to death! too bad
    Yeah, great car, they made 100 of them for the local market (only place outside of Japan) so they could race them here (where they also got the Godzilla nickname). He kept it in may garage for a year while he was away, so I got to take it for a spin every now an then to "keep it running". but I one upped him by buying an Audi quattro, (the group B one) haha
    All the gear and no idea.

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    Ha ha...the R34 review Clarkson did was awesome. My friend has a R33. It's crazy. As for the person saying that new Ferraris are no fun to drive. We are not saying that...just as we are not saying 29rs are not fun to ride....as someone who has driven both newer and older Ferrari's......The old ones are much more involving and needing driver skill to keep on the track. Where as the new stuff the electric nannies keep you there. You can be massively ham fisted with them and still come out looking like a rose....Where as with the old ones, try to drive the same way you will be in the weeds.

  61. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Adams View Post
    As for the person saying that new Ferraris are no fun to drive. We are not saying that...just as we are not saying 29rs are not fun to ride....as someone who has driven both newer and older Ferrari's......The old ones are much more involving and needing driver skill to keep on the track. Where as the new stuff the electric nannies keep you there. You can be massively ham fisted with them and still come out looking like a rose....Where as with the old ones, try to drive the same way you will be in the weeds.

    So in other words the new ones are better.
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  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    So in other words the new ones are better.
    This is the point, it depends on how you define better. Faster, safer, more comfortable, easier to drive and more reliable so yes, they are better.

    But in terms of the sheer thrill of driving and feeling connected to the car and the road?

  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    But in terms of the sheer thrill of driving and feeling connected to the car and the road?
    Subjective.
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  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Subjective.
    That's the whole point.

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    No...actually if you can ACTUALLY DRIVE, the F40 will hand ass to anything besides the Enzo. but you have to know how to drive. SOOOOOOOO just like in mountain bikes, the ole light weight 26'rs will keep up and beat 29rs etc if the person knows how to ride....simple. Enzo only wins because of sheer HP.

  66. #366
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    F40 vs. LaFerrari?
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  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I bet those new 1.3 million dollar Ferraris are no fun to drive at all.
    Just how much more fun is a Ferrari than a Honda Civic on city streets and highways with a speed limit of 65? Actually, I bet it would be even more fun in a car that makes city streets and 65 mph speed limits feel like a race track.

  68. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    Just how much more fun is a Ferrari than a Honda Civic on city streets and highways with a speed limit of 65? Actually, I bet it would be even more fun in a car that makes city streets and 65 mph speed limits feel like a race track.
    It's not....They are terrible for daily drivers.

  69. #369
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    After considering all of this I think I'm going to try 13" wheels on my mtb because that's what the vintage Civic's had and I've heard from prominent sources that they're more fun to drive on city streets than a Ferrari F40.
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  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    After considering all of this I think I'm going to try 13" wheels on my mtb because that's what the vintage Civic's had and I've heard from prominent sources that they're more fun to drive on city streets than a Ferrari F40.
    'Twitchy' but rad...

  71. #371
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    Last time I checked, it was about having fun.

    Unless your idea of "fun" is endless debates about wheel sizes.
    I dream of a day when my children will live in a world without the shackles of cause and effect.” - S. Colbert


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    What in the holy crap happened to my beautiful thread!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Adams View Post
    No...actually if you can ACTUALLY DRIVE, the F40 will hand ass to anything besides the Enzo. but you have to know how to drive. SOOOOOOOO just like in mountain bikes, the ole light weight 26'rs will keep up and beat 29rs etc if the person knows how to ride....simple. Enzo only wins because of sheer HP.
    I think a boost controller would help the F40's lag, and if you found a driver that really knows how to feather the throttle out of the apex, then yes the F40 may keep up with the Enzo. Most of the people here would crash both cars, and several celebrities have crashed Enzo's, but the F40 sounds even more wicked to drive, kind of like the older 70's and 80's 911 Turbos. BTW I'm experimenting on how to make my 26" bike faster downhill than a 27.5", the problem is that I may end up spending more money on the 26" just to do that, so where does one draw the line in performance vs. money spent?

  74. #374
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    you left it for too long...
    All the gear and no idea.

  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I think a boost controller would help the F40's lag, and if you found a driver that really knows how to feather the throttle out of the apex, then yes the F40 may keep up with the Enzo. Most of the people here would crash both cars, and several celebrities have crashed Enzo's, but the F40 sounds even more wicked to drive, kind of like the older 70's and 80's 911 Turbos. BTW I'm experimenting on how to make my 26" bike faster downhill than a 27.5", the problem is that I may end up spending more money on the 26" just to do that, so where does one draw the line in performance vs. money spent?

    Oh dear... you really don't know how a turbo engine works do you...
    All the gear and no idea.

  76. #376
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    Most of the cars I've had (okay , some) were fun in some way or 'nother but mainly my take on them was if some part fell off the car, it probably wasn't needed anyways.

    I also know those who remove anything from the car that quits working -rather than fix it. With these concepts, it's not uncommon to see an old Jeep CJ or YJ that weighs in at 2200 lbs or an 89 VW Fox Wagon that's 1935 lbs.

    I was either too lazy or too cheap to replace a bad battery in the VW so I parked on slight inclines and roll-started it for a long time.
    Last edited by bachman1961; 6 Days Ago at 02:53 AM.
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  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    Last time I checked, it was about having fun.
    Said who? For a lot of guys it's about being faster than your mates. Or faster than some guy you don't even know who also has a sad app on his phone.

  78. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Said who? For a lot of guys it's about being faster than your mates. Or faster than some guy you don't even know who also has a sad app on his phone.
    Oh, right. Silly me - carry on.....
    I dream of a day when my children will live in a world without the shackles of cause and effect.” - S. Colbert


  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    BTW I'm experimenting on how to make my 26" bike faster downhill than a 27.5", the problem is that I may end up spending more money on the 26" just to do that, so where does one draw the line in performance vs. money spent?
    Are you familiar with downhill racing?

  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Are you familiar with downhill racing?
    The guy with the biggest wheels and the most gears always wins.
    Proven fact.

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  81. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The guy with the biggest wheels and the most gears always wins.
    Proven fact.

    Except for that one time the guy without a chain won.

  82. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    Except for that one time the guy without a chain won.
    Once I tried riding without a chain and I didn't win, therefore unpossible.

    And don't give me any of that 'skills' mumbo jumbo either.
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  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The guy with the biggest wheels and the most gears always wins.
    Proven fact.

    You completely missed my point.

  84. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    You completely missed my point.
    Nope...got it...forgot to "(s)".

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  85. #385
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    My riding buddy lent me his 29er carbon Yeti while my 26er wheel was being repaired and after a little over 100 miles on it I was surprised by some things.

    Pros
    -Rollover - Obvious.
    -Speed - Surprised by how easily I could maintain speed
    -Stability - Bike had an excellent suspension though compared to my single pivot

    Cons
    -A handful in tight corners - I was surprised by how bad this was
    -Slow to accelerate - This is especially frustrating during climbing or rhythm sections
    -Feels "dead" due to slow reaction to input.

    Overall I liked it but my 26er just feels more fun. Overall times are similar, I am faster or slower in certain sections of trail depending on the bike. When I finally got my 26er back, that first ride reminded me of why I love it.

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Once I tried riding without a chain and I didn't win, therefore unpossible.

    And don't give me any of that 'skills' mumbo jumbo either.
    Don't worry, neither skills nor knowledge are transferable via the interwebs.

  87. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    Don't worry, neither skills nor knowledge are transferable via the interwebs.
    Obviously not.

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  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    After considering all of this I think I'm going to try 13" wheels on my mtb because that's what the vintage Civic's had and I've heard from prominent sources that they're more fun to drive on city streets than a Ferrari F40.
    I don't think you'd notice a difference.

  89. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Are you familiar with downhill racing?
    I'm not familiar with downhill racing. I got all of the psychotic stuff out of my system when I was younger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Oh dear... you really don't know how a turbo engine works do you...
    Mik would you mind telling us all how a boost controller works? And BTW do you own a turbo engine?

  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Mik would you mind telling us all how a boost controller works? And BTW do you own a turbo engine?
    yeah I do own a turbo engine...(and have had a few before, with and without boost controllers, used bleed valve ones a few times, ugh but an apexi avc-r being what I used the most.).

    A boost controller has nothing to do with lag, lag is a function of the turbo specifications and to some extent the engine flow. All a boost controller does is tell the wastegate when to open and close, you put one in when you want to bypass, or replace the original engine management boost control,to change boost levels and/or have finer control over boost management through the rev range.
    Lag is the time it takes to go from negative manfold pressure to full boost pressure, importantly at a point in the rev range where full boost pressure can be achieved. The factors being how much flow out the exhaust and how fast the turbo can spin up, so inertia and efficiency. Looking and boost curve charts for individual turbos can give you that info.
    A boost controller just specifies what boost pressure to achieve, it doesn't care about lag and can't do anything about it. It could have some by products that will improve lag by a tiny amount, like better control over the wastegate preventing creep, but thats like saying I bought a dropper post becasue it lets me get the bike in and out of the car easier. Or you cud set the boost so low that it has almost no lag, but well...

    But many boost controllers are japanese and work well with japanese/modern cars,F40 is old tech and while advanced at the time,is oddball for nowdays, it has it own 2 stage boost control with low rpm/boost bleed and high rpm/boost venting to bypass the wasetgate till max boost is achived..or something like that, not real sure how it works (probably learned something from the deltaS4 twin charge engine) and your typical afftermarket boost controller would just screw things up completely
    All the gear and no idea.

  92. #392
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    But i think we might have gotten slightly off topic here...
    All the gear and no idea.

  93. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    But i think we might have gotten slightly off topic here...
    "This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend.
    Some people started reading it not knowing what it was and now they are stuck reading it forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, yes it goes.........."

    I love this thread, have been reading it daily for weeks... Every time I check in it's completely different!

    Don't let it stop now!

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  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    What in the holy crap happened to my beautiful thread!?


    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJesusfreak View Post


    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
    Hah Hah !!

    I love anything car talky.

    Some will say (like me) they still have some 26r's and others will wonder or ask what the 26 is / was.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  96. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    yeah I do own a turbo engine...(and have had a few before, with and without boost controllers, used bleed valve ones a few times, ugh but an apexi avc-r being what I used the most.).

    A boost controller has nothing to do with lag, lag is a function of the turbo specifications and to some extent the engine flow. All a boost controller does is tell the wastegate when to open and close, you put one in when you want to bypass, or replace the original engine management boost control,to change boost levels and/or have finer control over boost management through the rev range.
    Lag is the time it takes to go from negative manfold pressure to full boost pressure, importantly at a point in the rev range where full boost pressure can be achieved. The factors being how much flow out the exhaust and how fast the turbo can spin up, so inertia and efficiency. Looking and boost curve charts for individual turbos can give you that info.
    A boost controller just specifies what boost pressure to achieve, it doesn't care about lag and can't do anything about it. It could have some by products that will improve lag by a tiny amount, like better control over the wastegate preventing creep, but thats like saying I bought a dropper post becasue it lets me get the bike in and out of the car easier. Or you cud set the boost so low that it has almost no lag, but well...

    But many boost controllers are japanese and work well with japanese/modern cars,F40 is old tech and while advanced at the time,is oddball for nowdays, it has it own 2 stage boost control with low rpm/boost bleed and high rpm/boost venting to bypass the wasetgate till max boost is achived..or something like that, not real sure how it works (probably learned something from the deltaS4 twin charge engine) and your typical afftermarket boost controller would just screw things up completely
    Dude, you're talking to a guy that can't get his head around bicycle gearing.
    I'm not sure you're going to have a lot of success here.

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  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I'm not familiar with downhill racing. I got all of the psychotic stuff out of my system when I was younger.
    Well, it exists, and factory teams spend significant amounts of time and energy experimenting and testing equipment.

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Well, it exists, and factory teams spend significant amounts of time and energy experimenting and testing equipment.

    Well, you know the shows on TV?

    I don't watch TV.

    Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called television, and on this invention they show shows, right?

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  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Well, you know the shows on TV?

    I don't watch TV.

    Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called television, and on this invention they show shows, right?

    *sigh* You're continuing to miss the point.

  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    *sigh* You're continuing to miss the point.
    No, what's happening is you're missing the joke.
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