Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,331

    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...

    I did an "Apples to Apples" (mangos to squash) comparison today of the 2005 vs 2017 in the hardtail mountain bike world.



    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...-img_20180518_182251264-picsay.jpg
    Subject 1: 2005 Freeride Hardtail (which today translates as "All Mountain Hardtail")

    28.5#, Hope Stans wheelset, 32x150mm fork 1x10 drivetrain, 26x2.4" tires, disc brakes.
    68' head angle, 425mm chainstays, 625mm effective top tube




    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...-img_20180518_163702248_tojp-picsay.jpg
    Subject 2: 2017 Trek Stache All Mountain Hardtail

    29#, Hope Arc wheelset, 35x140mm fork, 1x11 drivetrain, 29x3" tires, disc brakes.
    68' head angle, 420mm chainstays, 624 effective top tube.




    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...-img_20170812_164312302-picsay.jpg
    On paper, they look very similar except for the obvious wheel size difference. Almost like you altered one to fit the wheels of the other.

    Same 6-8mi trail, same direction. Very technical in places, pretty steep in places.

    Results: What a difference 12 years of technology makes. You'd think the only difference would be the ability of the 29x3 to roll over bumps, and the acceleration of the little 26x2.4 bike in the flats and smooth climbs, but I assure you...it goes much deeper than that.

    There's really nothing Komodo tackles that the Stache doesn't do better. The clown-wheeled bike moters up to speed very quickly on the trail & handles just as nimble but much more stable. Comfortably climbs where the Komodo spins out or runs out of gas, (comfort issue) obviously tackles technical terrain without trying, whereas the Komodo's pilot must carefully choose his lines as not to destroy the nice wheelset or veer off trail.

    There are sections that I clean on the Stache 100% of the time that I've never cleaned on my 26.

    Every time I get ready to ride, it gets harder and harder to pull the Komodo down off the wall. It's still a fun ride, but what a difference!

    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...-collagemaker_20180518_201056206-picsay.jpg
    Last edited by chelboed; 05-20-2018 at 07:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Thread Killer
    Reputation: bucksaw87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    760
    Hey, this is something that my wife and I were just discussing last night! My bike is an '06, hers is an '08, and it's simply astounding how far MTBs have come since then. Both of ours were purchased at the tail end of rim brakes, and right as 29ers were becoming en vogue. We've both been embarrassed on climbs (and loose stuff) by riders more mediocre than us on newer gear.

    It's very cool seeing a comparison like this, thanks for doing it!
    I ride a 26'er with tubes and rim brakes.
    Yeah, I'm basically living in the stone age.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    141
    I recently posted a comparison of my 1998 Trek 8900 with Hayes hydraulic brakes and the first SID. After road and fat bikes and 20 years later, I decided to get a new Hardtail. Bought a titanium bike with a Fox 32 SC Factory model. Has DT Swiss 240s hubs and 29 wheels and XT brakes and DI2 XT 2x with syncro shift. As you stated the difference is night and day. Three biggest difference was in the fork, wheels and geometry. Add in electric shifting, real brakes with modulation and Tubless, it is the best it has ever been. Gotta love technology. And we know it Will even get better. Safe Travels All!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,331
    I suspect the reason I'm faster at everything on clown wheels is because it takes more effort to roll across bumpy ground on my 26x2.4" 30psi wheelset versus 29x3" 15psi.

    I want to do another comparison at a 10mi trail that's a smooth roller coaster type of trail. The only thing that makes it technical is how fast you enter the abundance of turns and your ability not to wash out. There is however a sandy section that the 2.4's will just wallow in agony versus the 29x3's gliding over.

    I know the Stache will stay glued in the corners.

    It's 100% singletrack and very fun, but hard packed, very very curvaceous, every climb has a schute to gain momentum prior to it...so it's fast paced and super fun. I used to average 13.9mph on my 2005 HooKooEKoo when I was racing.

    Hopefully I can do that comparison at some point. I'm going to assume the 26 will win barring the sand loop.



    Side note: I did do another heads-up comparison on a new 3.9mi section of trail that had some steep climbs with a mixture of curvy dirt with technical boulder crawling. The Stache took 5 minutes off my Komodo time in just 3.9mi. I don't normally time these things, I gauge my rides off how much fun I'm having and how much effort I expend to traverse technical sections...or in the case of the Stache...whether I even notice any technical sections. As much as I love my Komodo still... Stache is a pretty amazing bike, peeps.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    I suspect the reason I'm faster at everything on clown wheels is because it takes more effort to roll across bumpy ground on my 26x2.4" 30psi wheelset versus 29x3" 15psi.

    I want to do another comparison at a 10mi trail that's a smooth roller coaster type of trail. The only thing that makes it technical is how fast you enter the abundance of turns and your ability not to wash out. There is however a sandy section that the 2.4's will just wallow in agony versus the 29x3's gliding over.

    I know the Stache will stay glued in the corners.

    It's 100% singletrack and very fun, but hard packed, very very curvaceous, every climb has a schute to gain momentum prior to it...so it's fast paced and super fun. I used to average 13.9mph on my 2005 HooKooEKoo when I was racing.

    Hopefully I can do that comparison at some point. I'm going to assume the 26 will win barring the sand loop.



    Side note: I did do another heads-up comparison on a new 3.9mi section of trail that had some steep climbs with a mixture of curvy dirt with technical boulder crawling. The Stache took 5 minutes off my Komodo time in just 3.9mi. I don't normally time these things, I gauge my rides off how much fun I'm having and how much effort I expend to traverse technical sections...or in the case of the Stache...whether I even notice any technical sections. As much as I love my Komodo still... Stache is a pretty amazing bike, peeps.
    If I could only own one bike, it would be the Stache. May be the best value vs fun.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,992
    Very interesting post and nice to see some numbers put down.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfgiantsfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,770
    In other news, The Japanese bombed Peal Harbor,
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  8. #8
    Thread already spun
    Reputation: Zowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,588
    Yeah, I was all into 26" too, but now I'm rolling 36", eff that old 26" garbage.

    I don't have to worry about my bad lines destroying those weak tiny wheels.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    765
    Clown wheels lol...

  10. #10
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
    Reputation: noapathy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,254
    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    In other news, The Japanese bombed Peal Harbor,
    Let me know how this turns out. Seems like a good tactical move.

    Also, Kona Honzo.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,331
    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...-img_20180525_201541408-picsay.jpg
    I know a few people who are one-bike-quiver types. They're rolling fat bikes. I hadn't ever ridden one until a week ago, but one friend let me demo his $2100 Fat Boy for a week.

    Head-to-Head-to-Head"

    Apples to oranges to mangos comparison. They're all fruits, but they couldn't be more different.

    This is my first foray, but I had an idea of what to expect...I was a bit surprised at the final results.

    The Fat Bike I borrowed is a size Large Specialized Fat Boy with 26x4.6" tires...outer diameter of around 29.25".

    My assumption going into this ride was that the Fat Boy would pedal a bit harder than the other two until I got to the gnarly rocks where I predicted it would float like a cloud. I started it with a recommended 11psi which was a bit too harsh, bouncy, and pointless. When I picked the bike up, it only had about 6psi... But I'm a bit bigger than the owner, so this definitely wouldn't work. A third of the way in, I settled on around 8-9psi.

    My first climb was disappointing. The piggy has a granny gear with 11-36t cassette, so I had great expectations...but the pig oinked to an early stop and I had to walk a few feet.

    The next surprising disappointment was a very technical climb that I've never cleaned on the old Komodo and never failed on my Stache. The Fat Boy did better than the old standard mountain bike, but failed to clean the climb.

    When things got really rough and rocky, the Fat Boy just acts like a tank and motors through...nothing fancy...not fast...but decently capable. When I tried to pick a line, the gigantic Specialized Ground Control 26x4.6" meats went wherever they wanted.

    This brings me to the most surprising characteristic of the bike. Self Steer. If you run the tire pressure low enough to take advantage of the size, they have a God Awful tenancy to self steer into cambers, humps, and hills. Like if you're riding on pavement and veer into the curved gutter by the street...it will noticeably turn itself into a bank.

    This goes away if you raise your pressures, but then the bike just turns into a heavy 29'er. The ability of giant tires to conform to the terrain and exhibit amazing traction is the bread and butter of a Fat bike.

    The other deficiency was amazingly...traction. Going up some hills, I spun out compared to the Stache.

    Over all, it's an interesting ride, but I caution you to test before you buy. Could a Fat Bike be my only All Around bike? Nope. Fatty's do some cool things, but they will also surprise you in a bad way at times. They are definitely not a substitute for suspension...not in the least.

    One place it seriously excellent was sand. This thing floats on sand and feels like it's rolling in dirt.

    If I ever buy a fat bike it would likely be the hybrid size of 27.5x4" due to the self steer problem. That annoyed me to death...but as I said, I'd really have to try before I buy given the surprising performance issues of this compared to my Plus Bike. I'd also have a taller stack, riser bars, and a Bluto or Mastodon fork.

    A friend told my once with regards to the Stache vs Farley. Stache is fast, fun, and nimble. Farley is dumb and clumsy. Well Stache vs Fat Boy was fairly similar. The Fat Boy could clear a 29x3" tire...and would be a better all rounder because if it...but then it wouldn't be a fat bike anymore.

    I think the 29x3" has so much better roll over, yet it's nimble fast and fun...no brainier for me. Unless I'm in mud, snow, or sand for the better part of my ride...Fat will take a back seat to plus.

    Keep the Fat bike in it's intended environment and the the Plus Bikes rule the trail.
    Last edited by chelboed; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:11 PM.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,331

    You want numbers? 51:59/10

    Numbers- 51min : 59min / 10mi trail...

    Back in the day, I built up an Easton RAD tubed 22# single speed rocket. My best time on one of my local 10mi trails was 59min on it back when I was in good shape 5 years ago. Couldn't beat it on my other hardtails or my dual suspensions.

    I destroyed my best time tonight by 8min...on my 28 3/4# Stache...not in the shape I was in back then, but the Stache more than made up for me.

    Clown wHeelZ Fo-ReaLz...digg!!

    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...-1998-jamis-komodo-3896_4-picsay.jpg
    26" staunch hold-out and clown wheels...-img_20180604_193807303_top-picsay.jpg

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 43
    Last Post: 09-11-2017, 08:06 AM
  2. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 07-10-2017, 11:53 AM
  3. Replies: 27
    Last Post: 10-25-2013, 08:02 AM
  4. Which clipless pedals have the most solid "hold" and "platform"?
    By quagmire_1985 in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-10-2011, 04:08 PM
  5. One Gear "Go" Clown Bike almost finished
    By OneEyedHito in forum Yeti
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-03-2011, 09:15 PM

Members who have read this thread: 107

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.