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Thread: Surly Krampus

  1. #801
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    Chris King Griplock InSet 1 Headset
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Krampus-krampus1.jpg  


  2. #802
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    I used a InSet 7 with the DEVO baseplate due to Surly's "recommendations" for an external lower cup... which was on their website for a week or so. But the InSet 1 should work fine too.

    The plus side of the 7 is that if I wanted to eventually rock a modern suspension fork with a tapered steer, I could take advantage. Plus e'rryone oohs and ahhs at the huge-ass-ness of it all.

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    Robothoooooooooooooouse!!!!!

    (Sorry, big Futurama fan and couldn't resist.)

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by robothouse View Post
    I used a InSet 7 with the DEVO baseplate due to Surly's "recommendations" for an external lower cup... which was on their website for a week or so. But the InSet 1 should work fine too.

    The plus side of the 7 is that if I wanted to eventually rock a modern suspension fork with a tapered steer, I could take advantage. Plus e'rryone oohs and ahhs at the huge-ass-ness of it all.
    I thought about using the 7 but decided my big ass makes everything on my bike look small :-).

  5. #805
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Just finished building my wheels.
    Rabbit Holes, silver Hope Pro 2 evos, green dt swiss nipples, Sapim double butted silver spokes, sparkly tape for rim strip, one layer of wide stans tape. This is a tubeless setup.

    Last edited by thickfog; 02-09-2013 at 07:40 AM.
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  6. #806
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    Coolness

    [QUOTE=thickfog;10146844]Just finished building my wheels.
    Rabbit Holes, silver Hope Pro 2 evos, green dt swiss nipples, Sapim double butted silver spokes, sparkly tape for rim strip, one layer of wide stans tape. This is a tubeless setup.


    Where did you get the sparkly tape?

  7. #807
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    [QUOTE=Tripower;10148057]
    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    Just finished building my wheels.
    Rabbit Holes, silver Hope Pro 2 evos, green dt swiss nipples, Sapim double butted silver spokes, sparkly tape for rim strip, one layer of wide stans tape. This is a tubeless setup.


    Where did you get the sparkly tape?
    Tape brothers. Tapebrothers.com
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  8. #808
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    Tires packed up quickly with thicker mud as I was expecting, but they did surprisingly well on wet, slippery rocks and creek crossings. I had the tire pressure a little high for the conditions; slight spinning on some uphills, but I'm still amazed by the traction.


  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1x1clyde View Post
    Well.....some more experiments and lo and behold a Krampus with 120mm's of tasty front suspension!

    Rabbit Hole Rim:

    Attachment 769165
    Well it looks like the tire fits with no problem. From the early diameter specs posted it must be shorter in production. I measured and originally it was not going to fit by quite a bit.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    Just finished building my wheels.
    Rabbit Holes, silver Hope Pro 2 evos, green dt swiss nipples, Sapim double butted silver spokes, sparkly tape for rim strip, one layer of wide stans tape. This is a tubeless setup.

    I like! How is the tubeless holding? Running a bit more or less air?
    The 120 TPI tires are on the way so I am thinking tubeless has to be tried
    Looking forward to hearing your feedback on the setup!
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  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1x1clyde View Post
    I like! How is the tubeless holding? Running a bit more or less air?
    The 120 TPI tires are on the way so I am thinking tubeless has to be tried
    Looking forward to hearing your feedback on the setup!
    This interesting, I thought that the fatter, fewer threads of the lower tpi tire were more suitable for tubeless. I thought this was due to greater abrasion resistance and stiffer sidewalls.

    Is there something else going on?

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I was being sarcastic, I've my share of Surly and Salsa stuff. Although it just occurred to me that maybe the Surly/Salsa/QBP thing isn't common knowledge. But it certainly is known by Mikesee
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  13. #813
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Bike is not finished yet. We have tons of snow on the trails so I've been taking advantage of that for snow biking.

    Tubeless is fine so far holding air. I don't expect any issues on the trail, but this is Michigan. It's all buff, flowy, easy single track. Very few rocks or anything beyond a 3 foot drop.

    I got my uma 90s with holes and bfl set up tubeless successfully, so these are easy in comparison.

    To me 120 tpi have been harder to get the sidewall leaks under control. Less rubber, more fabric. But these 120tpi knards are pretty darn solid with the rubber still.
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    Yep another Krampus build...

    Have had my medium since the 17th of January and really enjoying the heck out of it!

    Surly Krampus-734800_10151352960556506_1861344949_n.jpg In the shop

    Surly Krampus-543833_10151352775671506_1444768805_n.jpg Ghetto tubeless using 24" tubes split, surly rim strip, Stans sauce. Been running them around 10psi with no issues!

    Surly Krampus-710951_10151184357500685_195386172_n.jpgSurly Krampus-565309_10151184358270685_1124434678_n.jpgSurly Krampus-565979_10151184373145685_705013889_n.jpg

    Surly Krampus-542457_10151194862165685_573109160_n.jpg Racing on snowy mtb trails!

    Just got dumped on here in Minneapolis and looking forward to trying er out in some real snow.

    Setup:
    Med Surly Krampus, Im 5'9" 31.5" inseam fits like a dream based upon upcoming stock build.
    Pink Chris King hubs laced to Rabbitholes (680gm per rim), brass nips dbl butted spokes
    Surly 120tpi Knards (700gm per tire) set up tubeless
    Pink CK BB
    Pink CK headset
    Avid BB7s 180 front, 160rear Paul love levers
    SLX 10spd 12-36 cassette
    Sram x.9 rear der (new version) and shifter no chain keeper needed and no issues
    Race Face Evolve handlebar (720mm), 70mm stem, cranks converted to single with 36T RF single
    Jagwire cables and housing, etc
    Crank Bro Candy 2
    Weight approximately 28 lbs

  15. #815
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    If anyone has a Knard and a Reba at hand - I'd be curious if there is the clearance to run that combo like there appears to be with the Float 29.
    Safe riding,

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  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If anyone has a Knard and a Reba at hand - I'd be curious if there is the clearance to run that combo like there appears to be with the Float 29.
    Having test ridden a few bikes with a Reba fork and now seeing the Knard on a RH rim, I can tell you it won't work...

  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    I must do tubeless then



    Does anyone know what size Paul chain keeper fits the Krampus? 28.6 or 31.8?
    I'm not using a chain keeper and so far no issues....I am using a SRAM x.9 type 2 rear fwiw

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    Yep. 120tpi.
    out of 4 tires the weights were as follows: 930, 890, 700, 700 for 120tpi. Rabbitholes were as follows: 680, 680, 690, 700

  19. #819
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    Are you guys seriously getting Knards that weigh 700 grams? Mine were 947 and 939 (120 tpi). That's a pretty big weight range.

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    Are the complete bikes for sale now.?
    Where can I buy a knard tire? Thx

  21. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by chunkylover53 View Post
    Are you guys seriously getting Knards that weigh 700 grams? Mine were 947 and 939 (120 tpi). That's a pretty big weight range.
    That's a pretty big tire. Small variations in the layup of the carcass could result in the variations you are seeing.

    I was interested in tire-making, so recently watched some videos of tire manufacture. There is a surprising amount of hand labor in making tires. It's a wonder that they every get two just alike.
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  22. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavyRay View Post
    That's a pretty big tire. Small variations in the layup of the carcass could result in the variations you are seeing.

    I was interested in tire-making, so recently watched some videos of tire manufacture. There is a surprising amount of hand labor in making tires. It's a wonder that they every get two just alike.
    A 250 gram variation?

  23. #823
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    I just finished building my Krampus with rabbit holes and knards.

    I laced the rabbit holes using a 3x cross-lace pattern. cross-lacing is where spokes from the right flange go to the holes on the left side of the rim. The idea is that the greater bracing angle leads to greater lateral strength with a relatively small loss of vertical strength.

    I researched this and read mostly negative reviews. Fly Bikes, a bmx company, produces rims specifically designed to be laced like this, with the rim orienting the nipples to face the oppposite flange.

    With rabbit holes, there is barely a perceptible bend in the spoke as it comes out of the nipple. I used the hex head brass dt nipples, which were far better than any other nipple I've ever used. I didn't even touch a spoke wrench for the whole build. I started with a 5.5mm socket on a screwdriver handle to get each nipple started and then I came back with a corded electric drill to screw down each nipple until exactly no threads were showing. I used spokes measured for a non-cross-laced build and was totally, unquestioningly fine, but 1mm more spokes would have been a bit better. After the drill, I put the socket onto a small ratchet and finished tensioning and mild truing; from this point I only had to tighten drive-side spokes and disc-side in the front due to the spokes having a bit of tension when the threads were just covered.

    Nothing finicky, easy to true using regular methods. the only thing confusing, especially when operating with a ratchet/drill from the tire side of the rim is that you have to remember that the nipple on the right goes to the left flange. with a spoke wrench you would constantly see this. I had no trouble keeping track and built the second wheel in less than an hour.

    I hope this works out well and I have super strong wheels. I rode just around the parking lot, but its late and very wet out. I initially ran the one necessary spacer on the drive side with my bb and the chainline is too far out on the front, so I will next put the spacer to the non-ds.

    dt hex head nipples make building high tension 29er wheels far far easier than in the past! worth every penny.

    I"m 5'8" with around 31.5" inseam. I have almost 10.5" of seatpost showing, but the reach with a 100mm stem feels spot on for steep climbs. I'm riding a small based on ett, though in the past I typically rode mediums.

  24. #824
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    A 250 gram variation?
    I want these 700g tires. That's only 50 more than my racing ralph 2.4s!

    Id say there's a layer or so missing! Maybe a misbuild/qc issue?

    I just don't see how a normal 120tpi knard can hit 700g. It's a huge tire.
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I just finished building my Krampus with rabbit holes and knards.

    I laced the rabbit holes using a 3x cross-lace pattern. cross-lacing is where spokes from the right flange go to the holes on the left side of the rim. The idea is that the greater bracing angle leads to greater lateral strength with a relatively small loss of vertical strength.

    I researched this and read mostly negative reviews. Fly Bikes, a bmx company, produces rims specifically designed to be laced like this, with the rim orienting the nipples to face the oppposite flange.
    I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.

    So what is the proper or best way to build these? I did not cross over. Was that a mistake or a preference? :banghead:
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  26. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    I want these 700g tires. That's only 50 more than my racing ralph 2.4s!

    Id say there's a layer or so missing! Maybe a misbuild/qc issue?

    I just don't see how a normal 120tpi knard can hit 700g. It's a huge tire.
    No kidding. My 120 tpi came in at 862. I still find that completely amazing. I weighed my 1/3 worn Racing Ralph 2.25 SS and it was 661. Also, the Knard is tit city and I'm guessing it will loose a few grams once those are gone.

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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.

    So what is the proper or best way to build these? I did not cross over. Was that a mistake or a preference? :banghead:
    Im confused, so is he saying he radially laced both sides of the rim but just crossed thenspokes from one side to the other? I smell disaster coming.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  28. #828
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    I have now weighed 4 tires, 2 120 tpi and 2 27 tpi versions. The 120's were ~1080 - 1100 grams and the 27's were north of 1200 gr. I do not see how they could be 700 or 800 grams. does not make sense to me. Just seems like too much variation in the manufacturing process to be 300 grams difference per tire.

  29. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x ("three cross") lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.
    this would have been better stated as a question.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Im confused, so is he saying he radially laced both sides of the rim but just crossed thenspokes from one side to the other? I smell disaster coming.
    it might be your upper lip that you're smelling

    I'm not aware of an entirely agreed upon vocab for this, but 3 cross refers to the regular crossing with which you are familiar. cross-lacing refers to taking the spoke from left flange to right side of rim and vice versa. Offset lacing is another possibility, where the spokes all go to the same side of the rim.

    Typically, you're always going to do 3 cross with a 32 spoke wheel, which is what I did, but I also laced the spokes cross-laced. I call it 3 cross, cross-lacing. I'll call the conventional wheel a regular 3 cross to be clear.

    There are a lot of urban legends about cross-lacing, maybe some are true. Shimano used to make some road wheels that were cross laced. BMW makes some respected motorcycle wheels that are cross-laced. both of these example are said by some to be finicky, even phantasmagorical.

    The typical "myth" is that cross-laced wheels are amazing, but they are finnicky to true and build. People talk about them getting a wobble and then applying regular truing techniques and the wobble mysteriously moves around, never getting under control until you detension the wheel and slowly and evenly bring it back to tension.

    While I never build wheels that start out with any kind of big wobble (assuming new parts), which to me just indicates poor attention to even spoke threading (i.e., before they are under tension).

    Below you can read some comments about the supposed difficulties. Perhaps the 5mm offset of the holes in the rim is small enough that it behaves like a regular wheel.

    Lacing Rolling Darryl Rims
    Anybody ever "Cross" their spokes to the other side of the rim

    I e-mailed surly, and they said to just build 'em regular 3 cross. I ordered the spokes for regular 3 cross out of fear of lacing a wheel and discovering that it really is a pain during the tensioning process. Instead I discovered that it was totally easy and essentially no different from building a regular wheel. These wheels should be much stronger under lateral loads (taco resistance, so to speak) than if they were laced regular 3 cross.

    I wanted to share all of this with the world so you can go forward without fear. You can even order spokes for regular 3 cross and use your spare time to take a risk and lace it up 3 cross, cross laced, knowing that you'll have to move every spoke over if it doesn't work out (not exactly the end of the world). But I see no reason why you should have more trouble than me. Obviously only time will tell with regards to durability, but everything I've read suggests that durability is enhanced by cross-lacing.

    I don't want all this cross-lace discussion to overshadow how amazing the hex head nipples are. You wouldn't even notice they were different if you don't look close. High tension wheels without even touching a spoke wrench!

    I should also mention that I got the 27 tpi tires and they did NOT want to go ghetto tubeless. I'm running tubes right now (regular 29er works fine, 26x2.7 q-tubes work fine too, but former was easier to install the tire) to encourage the tires to take the shape of the rim. I suspect that I will end up putting a layer of foam strips between the rim strip and the split tube like I did when I made my bud on darryl tubeless. On a lesser note, the surly rim strip is a bit narrow, and the first time I installed a tire, the tube ended up being visible through the hole in the rim, as the strip had moved over a bit while mounting the fat 26" tube.

    front wheel: Surly Krampus-dscn4848.jpg

    rear wheel: Surly Krampus-dscn4849.jpg

    it looks like a kid's bike: Surly Krampus-dscn4850.jpg

    from behind: Surly Krampus-dscn4851.jpg

    crappy camera: Surly Krampus-dscn4847.jpg

    edit: I also wanted to clarify that 3x in this context is read as "3 cross", not "3 times", as one might expect. I've tried to write out cross rather than using the x to be more clear.
    Last edited by PretendGentleman; 02-12-2013 at 10:13 AM. Reason: building an epic post takes time

  30. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I just finished building my Krampus with rabbit holes and knards.

    I laced the rabbit holes using a 3x cross-lace pattern. cross-lacing is where spokes from the right flange go to the holes on the left side of the rim. The idea is that the greater bracing angle leads to greater lateral strength with a relatively small loss of vertical strength.

    I researched this and read mostly negative reviews. Fly Bikes, a bmx company, produces rims specifically designed to be laced like this, with the rim orienting the nipples to face the oppposite flange.
    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.

    So what is the proper or best way to build these? I did not cross over. Was that a mistake or a preference? :banghead:
    With normal rims, cross lacing is not possible - since the spoke holes are in a line. Only with these wide rims with holes offset significantly from each other/centerline can you make it happen. As the user stated - the lacing is 3x, as is most common for bicycle wheels. But each flange is laced to the holes in the opposite side of the rim.

    As stated, this gives you more lateral strength because the spokes are now at more of an angle from vertical. HOWEVER. These crosslaced wheels can be much harder to build simply because each movement of the nipple moves the rim farther than it would for conventional lacing. I started cross lacing wheels because the USC 100mm rims I was using have a +/-25mm offset, which gave me about 1 degree of lateral bracing vs a normal wheel with about 8 degrees. I was worried about a major lack of lateral strength, so I crosslaced - giving a lateral bracing angle around 20 degrees! The problem is that the normal 1/4 turn of a nipple now produces 10x the lateral movement. Very touchy to true initially, but very strong. I have been running some of these wheels for at least 2 years of fairly rough riding w/o issue or need to retrue.

    For an offset of +/-5mm (which is what I recall the RabbitHoles having) there would be only a little bit of difference. They should build up just like a "normal" wheel, but the look will be a bit different. Here's a +/-25 3x crosslace before tension/true:
    Surly Krampus-img_1357s.jpg
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  31. #831
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    ^That looks wicked!
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    hello. has anyone measured the ERD of the rabbit hole rim? if it is similar to surly's other rims the provided ERD of 615.5 will take into account building alternate sided. im thinking that for a geared rear hub, it would be best to lace all to one side and want to use alu nipples so want spoke length to be spot on ...i could wait until the rims arrive to measure, then order spokes, but you all know what it is like to be in a rush to get things rolling, right?
    Last edited by dRjOn; 02-14-2013 at 03:57 AM. Reason: additional text

  33. #833
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    Has anyone had a chance to ride on backed sand or tidal flat regions? Particularly interested on how the tires do on the Texas gulf coast flats-not the loose sand but the packed stuff. I know the fat tire bikes could handle it but the krampus is very tempting.
    tia

  34. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    hello. has anyone measured the ERD of the rabbit hole rim? if it is similar to surly's other rims the provided ERD of 615.5 will take into account building alternate sided. im thinking that for a geared rear hub, it would be best to lace all to one side and want to use alu nipples so want spoke length to be spot on ...i could wait until the rims arrive to measure, then order spokes, but you all know what it is like to be in a rush to get things rolling, right?
    qbp has 615.5

    offset lacing(that's what I call it when all spokes go to one side of the rim) should work well with these. I do recommend cross-lacing, though I've only ridden 20 miles on it. It's super stiff. But offset should give pretty even tension. The same spoke worked fine for cross-lacing as the qbp spoke calculator recommended for regular lacing. Thus you don't really need to make any correction. Aluminum nipples don't stip in my experience, the head/shoulder breaks off, so having 1mm to little spoke won't make a difference. My front and rear w/ shimano hubs were both 297/298. I would just do 298 on both sides for offset.
    Last edited by PretendGentleman; 02-14-2013 at 08:33 AM.

  35. #835
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    Did my first long ride last night, ~20 miles. It rained for 2 days before the ride so this was a good test of the krampus. (In case you're worried, these trails aren't public and they love to be ridden in the rain; more wet leaves than mud) It's hard to notice that you're not slipping or how amazing your traction is if you're alone, but I wasn't and my riding buddy was amazed by what I could climb up and how well I did in turns. I'm not sure if its the high bb or wide tires or both, but I felt like I did far more two-wheeled drifts w/o any problem or even needing to unclip than I've ever experienced before (high bb makes falling over happen slower, so you have a better chance of correcting it). I also fully embraced my technique of riding with my fingers off the brake levers. Even though it was wet, I was able to make it through a windy section with millions of small pine trees, without even touching my brakes (whereas I normally would have used them in a couple of the turns).

    the 3 cross, cross laced wheels are doing great. During the build, I don't put too much time into pre-stressing the wheel and bedding the spokes into the hubshell when it's a wheel for me, as I think its more efficient to just ride it and do the single retrue that is typically required. So far no retrue required. I did notice that the bike is much stiffer than my old 29er. There's a little whoopdiedoo that I use to jump over a small drainage culvert and on my old 4cross 36h p35/m756 wheel would noticeable deflect when I pumped through this little section. The cross laced rabbit hole was very confidence inspiring and noticeably stiff. for rims with only 5mm offset, based on my experience so far, I will definitely cross-lace 'em.

    One thing that I'm not sure how to explain is that the krampus bunny hops like my 26er! There are three big tree trunks that I usually hit either both or my rear tire on to get over. On my 29er I'd never cleared them (i.e., without touching), and only a couple of them on my 26er. On the krampus without paying any special attention, i cleared every single trunk without touching. A very pleasant surprise.

    I think I ended up riding faster in the same way that people do when they switch to a single speed. I was more aggressive attacking hills and since I can't use my granny gear, I rode taller gears; I like to save that easiest gear for the hardest climb - it helps psychologically to know you could make it easier!
    Last edited by PretendGentleman; 02-14-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  36. #836
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    Pretend - What PSI were you at? Any comparo of how it felt between the Knard and a regular 29er tire? I just switched out my front for a Knard, but haven't had a chance to ride. I thought the Ardent 2.4 was big, but this thing looks humongous.

  37. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Pretend - What PSI were you at? Any comparo of how it felt between the Knard and a regular 29er tire? I just switched out my front for a Knard, but haven't had a chance to ride. I thought the Ardent 2.4 was big, but this thing looks humongous.
    Not sure about pressure, my pump isn't accurate down there. I'd guess around 12 psi. I also varied the pressure on the ride using a pump w/o gauge. I did get a mild pinch flat in the rear where I have a tube, so it was pretty low, but I also hit hard.

    I ride very aggressively, and low pressures do give great traction, but they also lead to problems with the big hits. If I put the pressure at a point that gave the best traction, I could bottom out the rim pumping a big dip. Still figuring out the trade-offs, but looking forward to making the rear tubeless (waiting for hardware store to get more foam in) so pinch flats are no longer an issue.

  38. #838
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    Thanks. Did you feel any better/less beat up than being on a rigid 29er at the end of the 20 miler? I get a sore shoulder after a ride on my rigid Jones (is that redundant?), so hoping that the Knard will soften up the ride so I can go longer.

    I've got a tube in there right now, but after the tire properly takes its shape, I'm going to set it up split-tube tubeless.

  39. #839
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    hello. has anyone measured the ERD of the rabbit hole rim? if it is similar to surly's other rims the provided ERD of 615.5 will take into account building alternate sided. im thinking that for a geared rear hub, it would be best to lace all to one side and want to use alu nipples so want spoke length to be spot on ...i could wait until the rims arrive to measure, then order spokes, but you all know what it is like to be in a rush to get things rolling, right?
    Mine hit 615 on the dot.
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  40. #840
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    I'm finding that without using a digital gauge (i just picked up a SKS one) that 10-12psi on a variety of high end floor pumps actually meant 6-8psi tires. Today I rode through 3-5 inches of fresh snow at 9psi and my print was comparable to an endomorphs tracks left by an earlier riser than me.

  41. #841
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    My Krampus made possible by Cycle Haven.
    They still have Krampus build kits available.

  42. #842
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    expectacular gtr2ebike

  43. #843
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    Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by ironman13 View Post
    expectacular gtr2ebike
    +1. That thing looks awesome. Well done.

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    I want one of these but I'm not hardcore enough for a rigid bike. Has anyone tried any other suspension fork? Seems like a Fox works fine. Will it rub the crown on the rare occasion that you get full travel? That Fox looks like my 26er with a 2.3 650b tire in it.

  45. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    I want one of these but I'm not hardcore enough for a rigid bike. Has anyone tried any other suspension fork? Seems like a Fox works fine. Will it rub the crown on the rare occasion that you get full travel? That Fox looks like my 26er with a 2.3 650b tire in it.
    I'm the same way. I've thought about it a lot, but in reality I don't even want to spend the money to build a rigid full fat bike because other than the possible lighter weight I'm pretty sure I would not end up riding it much after the novelty wore off. For me FS is the only way to go. But w/o that option for Knard size tires, at the moment at least, having a suspension fork is the next best thing.

    [For those who don't know I do have a FS fat bike I built that works very well.]
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  46. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Has anyone tried any other suspension fork?
    Yep, works like a charm too.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Krampus-k3.jpg  

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  47. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfkbike2 View Post
    I have now weighed 4 tires, 2 120 tpi and 2 27 tpi versions. The 120's were ~1080 - 1100 grams and the 27's were north of 1200 gr. I do not see how they could be 700 or 800 grams. does not make sense to me. Just seems like too much variation in the manufacturing process to be 300 grams difference per tire.
    +1 - but if past experience with Surly fat bike tires holds true there is a significant variation [say 100g] between the same tires when weighed. And 120tpi tires are significantly lighter.

    In the fat bike world some folks are weighing tires before they buy them and cherry picking the light ones.
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  48. #848
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    That is Sexy.
    plunging like stones from a slingshot on mars.

  49. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by tao View Post

    That is Sexy.
    Are all those spokes laced to the left side of the rim? If so, how's it holding up?

  50. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    Are all those spokes laced to the left side of the rim? If so, how's it holding up?
    Yes, and just fine.

    It's funny how many folks question it, and worry about durability. Every Pugsley and Moonlander is rolling on at least one, if not two, offset built rims.

    And in this particular case, the rim is pretty narrow, further reducing the likelihood of it ever being a problem....

    Running an offset built Uma 90 on my fatty with a Lefty, beat the snot out of that thing too!

    And tao? Thanks!

    edit: Oops, forgot, I ended up relacing it to symmetrical, no issues, just evened up the spoke tension to do so. It was offset when that pic was taken though....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  51. #851
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    Surly Krampus-img_3062.jpgSurly Krampus-img_3064.jpg

    Just finished my build today. It's an XL and it came in at about 30 lbs.

    It's a suicide-shift 2 speed. Basically a single speed but when I need it I can kick down (literally) from 36-19 to 22-19 to power up the big hills we have around here). I've run this set-up on my commuter for a year now and love it.

    Specs:

    - Surly MWOD double front (36 and 22)
    - ghetto-tubeless
    - AVid BB7 180mm front and rear
    - paul's singlespeed rear hub
    - Paul's melvin chain tensioner
    - white industries eno 19t
    - thomson seatpost
    - crank brother's candy pedals
    - precision handlebars (super wide) and grips
    - temporary kona stem

    I'll probably trim the handlebars a few inches, and once I get a few rides in I'll decide what size stem I need and place a matching thomson stem on there. and i'll chop the steerer at that time too!

    I've only gone up and down the block a few times, but this is definitely a much different animal then the Pugsley I just sold. I'm looking to find a suspension fork for it once I'm comfortable with the options that present themselves.

  52. #852
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    So I don't get tire flats on my local trails. Period. Knock on wood. I've run a tubed fat front for almost a year now. No flats. Taking flat prevention out of the equation, is there a good argument for running the Knard/Rabbit Hole gorilla tubeless? I can't imagine the weight savings are that great. Low pressures are nice, but I haven't had trouble with pinch flats on my 45 North fat front running Q tubes. I have a Rabbit Hole 120tpi Knard front wheel/tire coming this week. With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?

  53. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?
    Running my Husker Du tubeless I saw a 2 once difference in weight which can be more I just didn't have the right rim strip to loose more weight, ride wise though you could feel the tire felt like it had less air in it then when you have a tube, i.e. 10psi feels like 8psi, which of course sounds stupid, but that's what I can say.

  54. #854
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    So I don't get tire flats on my local trails. Period. Knock on wood. I've run a tubed fat front for almost a year now. No flats. Taking flat prevention out of the equation, is there a good argument for running the Knard/Rabbit Hole gorilla tubeless? I can't imagine the weight savings are that great. Low pressures are nice, but I haven't had trouble with pinch flats on my 45 North fat front running Q tubes. I have a Rabbit Hole 120tpi Knard front wheel/tire coming this week. With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?
    Depends on the tubeless setup and the tube setup you came from.

    Look at both ways as a system.

    Both need a rim strip with drilled holy rims. Now, you can use something heavy as hell like the Surly rim strips or something light like one or two rolls of duct tape. This also gives design choices as you can run the tape inside out and show off the tape pattern /design.
    For a rim strip, I am using a poly-type designer tape. It's light as heck and super strong.

    So there with tubes or tubeless you can save a little weight and make your rims look cool.

    Onto the tube part. You can use the heavy Surly toob or use a regular 29er tube. Now, depending on your trails, stretching a 29er tube to fill a 3 inch tire, may lead to flats quite fast. Only you can be the judge on that.

    So, depending on tube used subtract that weight for tubeless and then add:

    weight of the stans (mine weighs 1/2 oz) or duct tape for rim sealing tape, the valve stem (mine weighs less than 1/4 oz) and AT least 2oz of sealant for a tire this large. Most people use 3 or 4 oz. I don't. That's talked about in another thread.

    Also some people have a hard time seating the bead tubeless and resort to foam in the rim channel. It weighs nothing though. But whatever, any weight must be added.

    So add the tubeless setup weight and what have you really saved... Maybe 1-4 ounces given the variables I've stated. So that would be 2-8 ounces for the total. That goes from 2 oz (worthless) to 8 oz (which is quite wishful really) which is worth it.

    My point is there's too many variables on any given setup to give a solid weight loss figure.

    Combine this with tubless issues: burping, possible bead unseating on the trail making it very hard to reseat, air loss until the tire is well coated with stans, flats on the trail still and no backup tube if you take that kind of chance.
    So, yes I run tubless (and no spare tube in my pack. It has left me walking once in 5 years) to save those few ounces, but like dvo1 said 10 psi feels like 8 and rolling resistance feels less with tubless. It may be in my head, but if this is what it takes to trick myself, then so be it.
    Last edited by thickfog; 02-16-2013 at 07:00 AM.
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  55. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    So I don't get tire flats on my local trails. Period. Knock on wood. I've run a tubed fat front for almost a year now. No flats. Taking flat prevention out of the equation, is there a good argument for running the Knard/Rabbit Hole gorilla tubeless? I can't imagine the weight savings are that great. Low pressures are nice, but I haven't had trouble with pinch flats on my 45 North fat front running Q tubes. I have a Rabbit Hole 120tpi Knard front wheel/tire coming this week. With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?
    I rarely got flats on my MTBs with tubes. Like less than 1 per year. Switching to tubeless my wheels are lighter which is nice. I get better traction and less rolling resistance. I can also run low pressures without worry about snake bites.

    I carry a spare tube in my hydration pack, but I've never had a tubeless failure on the trail.

    I've switched my 2 main MTBs over to tubeless and won't go back. Thinking of setting up my fatbike tubeless as well.

    Forget about the weight and think about allowing your tire to conform more easily to the terrain without having that tube in there. That extra traction/performance from your tire is worth it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  56. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I rarely got flats on my MTBs with tubes. Like less than 1 per year. Switching to tubeless my wheels are lighter which is nice. I get better traction and less rolling resistance. I can also run low pressures without worry about snake bites.

    I carry a spare tube in my hydration pack, but I've never had a tubeless failure on the trail.

    I've switched my 2 main MTBs over to tubeless and won't go back. Thinking of setting up my fatbike tubeless as well.

    Forget about the weight and think about allowing your tire to conform more easily to the terrain without having that tube in there. That extra traction/performance from your tire is worth it.
    +1 to this. This is nearly identical to my experience and opinions on tubeless.

  57. #857
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    I heard yesterday that these rims are only 670grams. That's crazy light for that width. Have others weighed their rims? How about a weight on the production tires? 120tpi.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  58. #858
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    I haven't weighed anything except the complete bike, but the rims did feel very light. I was definitely surprised by the weight.

  59. #859
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I heard yesterday that these rims are only 670grams. That's crazy light for that width. Have others weighed their rims? How about a weight on the production tires? 120tpi.
    Mine came in at 653 grams.
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  60. #860
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    I have one good offroad ride in finnaly-and was impressed again! Loved it on the test last summer-but really loved it at home! Did a very rocky trail-rock crawling type. Found that the front lifts real well for such a big bike-and the slack head angle was awesome rooling off stuff-when i didnt get the front up! A buddy said it just looked easy-like I was on an easier trail.

    A note about tubes/tubeless........Remember if you run tubes to talc or babaypowder the inside of the tire well. It is kind of forgotten to do this it seems. If you have the tire and tube talced well-they CAN move independently...it feels more like tubeless.
    i own a bikeshop in WV thetruewheelwv.com

  61. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I heard yesterday that these rims are only 670grams. That's crazy light for that width. Have others weighed their rims? How about a weight on the production tires? 120tpi.
    Most rim weights I've seen for the Rabbit Hole in this thread, and others, have come in under 700 grams. The 120tpi tires seem to be all over the place, from 700 to 1100grams. The most common weight reading I've been seeing for the 120tpi Knard is between 950-1000.

  62. #862
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    I mounted my 120 tpi Knard yesterday and did not like the way the bead seated, it popped off on both sides the first time I aired it up; it popped at 25psi, so not a lot of air.

    I'm using a Nimbus Dominator 2 rim, 42mm, burly rim hook, so I was kinda suprised the tire popped off so eailly. I also like running tubeless, and had planned to run tubeless on the Knard, but not any longer. Maybe the 27tpi is burlier constructopn and/or has a tighter fit, but this the ultraligt casing and it fits big, so I see this tire blowing off the rim as a tubeless set up.

    I also have a Knard 26 x 3.8 120tpi and it appears to have a standard Surly casing, feels more substantial, though it also weighs more at 1325gm.

    My 29 x 3 120tpi Knard weighs 925gm, kinda heavy for what it is, only ten percent larger overall that my Hans Dampf 2.35, far less burly, and heavier by 50gm.

    Anyone have a 27tpi Knard comparison to a 120tpi? How does the casing and rubber differ? What's the weight range for the 27tpi?

    Not impressed so far...

  63. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    +1 to this. This is nearly identical to my experience and opinions on tubeless.
    Thanks to everyone above for the tubeless responses. I worried I might be opening the old tube vs. tubleless can or worms--I generally go tubeless, but not for my fat front which I never bothered to set up tubeless. I wasn't sure if these fatter tires might fall somewhere outside the tubeless argument folks have on "regular" tires. By the way, for those who are thinking of using tubes, I've had just great luck and performance from q-tubes. Running the q-tube at really low pressure on the front, and it's been pretty perfect.

  64. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I mounted my 120 tpi Knard yesterday and did not like the way the bead seated, it popped off on both sides the first time I aired it up; it popped at 25psi, so not a lot of air.

    I'm using a Nimbus Dominator 2 rim, 42mm, burly rim hook, so I was kinda suprised the tire popped off so eailly. I also like running tubeless, and had planned to run tubeless on the Knard, but not any longer. Maybe the 27tpi is burlier constructopn and/or has a tighter fit, but this the ultraligt casing and it fits big, so I see this tire blowing off the rim as a tubeless set up.

    I also have a Knard 26 x 3.8 120tpi and it appears to have a standard Surly casing, feels more substantial, though it also weighs more at 1325gm.

    My 29 x 3 120tpi Knard weighs 925gm, kinda heavy for what it is, only ten percent larger overall that my Hans Dampf 2.35, far less burly, and heavier by 50gm.

    Anyone have a 27tpi Knard comparison to a 120tpi? How does the casing and rubber differ? What's the weight range for the 27tpi?

    Not impressed so far...
    I have 27tpi f and r. I set up the front tubeless, but ran out of foam for the rear. When inflating the tubed rear I had 1 issue with the bead popping off around 12 psi; had to let air out and reseat the bead. Going tubeless w/ 24" split q-tube, had to use foam to create seal/push rim to sidewalls. Very loud snapping of bead onto rim. W/ no sealant very little air leaking out! Burped 1 time so far, so running higher air pressure. Burping isn't a good sign! I'm running a slime tube in the rear and it seemed to even recover from a pinch flat, to my surprise. But pinch flat wouldn't be an issue with tubeless, which is what I have exclusively run on mtb for the last 2 years. I'm ready for a successor to the knard. Something like the bud and lou for tread, but a 3.2 or so up front!

    Cross laced wheels have ~40 miles on them and they're still running super stiff and super straight. I love how stiff this bike is, I would be curious to compare to a regular laced krampus.

  65. #865
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    so how many people are running normal 29er tubes vs the surly tubes? any issues? i was looking at running standard schwalbe 29er tubes or the q tubes superlite ones. is it worth it or is it more reliable to run the Surly tubes??

  66. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJfromtheSwitch View Post
    so how many people are running normal 29er tubes vs the surly tubes? any issues? i was looking at running standard schwalbe 29er tubes or the q tubes superlite ones. is it worth it or is it more reliable to run the Surly tubes??
    As I mentioned above, I have been running a q-tubes superlite on my fat front bike for almost a year with no issues. I'll take the weight savings myself.

  67. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    Depends on the tubeless setup and the tube setup you came from.

    Look at both ways as a system.

    Both need a rim strip with drilled holy rims. Now, you can use something heavy as hell like the Surly rim strips or something light like one or two rolls of duct tape. This also gives design choices as you can run the tape inside out and show off the tape pattern /design.
    For a rim strip, I am using a poly-type designer tape. It's light as heck and super strong.
    Thickfog, you're using tape as a rim strip. Are you using two pre-measured strips of tape placed sticky-side together to create a rim strip?

  68. #868
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Thickfog, you're using tape as a rim strip. Are you using two pre-measured strips of tape placed sticky-side together to create a rim strip?
    For my uma 90 mm rims on my fat bike, yes two pieces of designer duct tape side by side sticky side out. I did not cut this tape as I preferred the slight overlap for strength. This was a pain to set up. One year two months still ok.

    For krampus, just a single piece sticky side out, but I cut the width down as the poly tape would not conform to the center channel well. This makes me a bit nervous as the tape edge is closer to the rim holes. My fear is the tape may push through the holes one day if it shifts. :banghead:
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  69. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    For krampus, just a single piece sticky side out, but I cut the width down as the poly tape would not conform to the center channel well. This makes me a bit nervous as the tape edge is closer to the rim holes. My fear is the tape may push through the holes one day if it shifts. :banghead:
    The surly rimstrip has this same problem! If you don't pay close attention, its easy to end up with the tube protruding from the cutouts! The strip should be about 1cm wider imo.

  70. #870
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    My different tapes :



    From left to right :
    Green sparkle poly tape. Rim strip. From
    tapebrothers.com:
    http://www.tapebrothers.com/mobile/default.aspx#P2998

    Duck brand tape. Rim strip.

    Gorilla tape. Rim sealing and rim strip.

    Giant stan's tape at almost 4 inches wide! Rim sealing.

    The fatbike with uma 90s tubless. Rear uses gorilla as sealing tape, front uses giant stans (giant stans was found later). I prefer stans as it stretches and conforms to the rim crevices better:

    Last edited by thickfog; 02-17-2013 at 07:47 AM.
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  71. #871
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    One more "mod" I had to try

    White Bros Carbon Fork, 490 Axle to crown keeps it slack!

    So with the Rabbit Hole rims, 120 tpi Knards it is at a svelte 27 1/2.

    I've always liked carbon with my rigid set ups and the addition of the bigger tire is a perfect match. Had some pretty fast runs down some local trails the last few days and expect for the really rocky it was just fine!

    Surly Krampus-side-carbon.jpg

    Surly Krampus-front-carbon.jpg
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  72. #872
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    I have the Knard 29 x 3 (120tpi). I run Maxxis Freeride Tubes 26 x 2.2-2.5 (295gm) in all my tires, 26 x 4", 29 x 2.4, and now 29 x 3". Reasonable weight, no pinch flats to date, less expensive and more durable than the Surly offerings. Be sure and preinflate the tube to stretch it out, use some powder so the tube moves in the tire.

    I rode hard today, found the pressure sweet spot pretty quickly at 17psi with ambient air temp around 40 deg F. Rode a lot of rock, some mud, roots, drops up to 2', had a minor rim shot off one biggish ledge where I landed sideways, it would probably have been better with a little more pressure, but more pressure = more bounce.

    Overall I like the tire, it's faster rolling that an Ardent or Hans Dampf, not quite as competent in mud, but then what is... The tir needed some breaking in, initially a little squirelly, but once it got dirty it was all good. The volume is very obvious, far more cushion than a 2.4, easier on my back and butt, was able to ride longer and never felt beat; the HD always leaves me feeling beat up.

    I'd be curious to see if the sidewalls are beefier on the 27tpi, anyone have both tires in hand to do a comparison?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    For krampus, just a single piece sticky side out, but I cut the width down as the poly tape would not conform to the center channel well. This makes me a bit nervous as the tape edge is closer to the rim holes. My fear is the tape may push through the holes one day if it shifts. :banghead:
    Thanks. I haven't set up a cut-out rim before. I'm not going to use the Surly rim strip. I wasn't sure if using the tape sticky-side against the rim and with the sticky open to the air outside the rim in the cut outs would cause some kind of problems. Either as dirt collectors, or a sticky mess on hot days. Plus, with regular gorilla tape it'll be kind of ugly. I'll figure it out.

  74. #874
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    I meant sticky side out as in when you are looking at the rim channel. Then sealing tape over that. You don't want sticky tape exposed to the outside. That would be some mess.
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  75. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    I meant sticky side out as in when you are looking at the rim channel. Then sealing tape over that. You don't want sticky tape exposed to the outside. That would be some mess.
    Yep. Got it. Common sense, right? Now I'm just looking into a couple different methods.

  76. #876
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    Re: Surly Krampus

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Yep. Got it. Common sense, right? Now I'm just looking into a couple different methods.
    Yeah kind of common sense. Some people have tried sticky outside and just let the dirt collect. After a certain point, the tape is nicely coated. I've also heard of coating the exposed tape with glitter. Now that might be cool.
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  77. #877
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    Update on my tubeless setup...
    45mi shredder ride 4k climbing in goathead central Tucson Az &
    2 day bike-packing ~40mi on the Black Canyon Trail which has some gnarly tire flattener sections.
    ...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!

    Also, unless you're doing mega-drops and DH sections, this thing handles about the same as my Kona Unit with a F29!!!

  78. #878
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    did you use any foam under your split tube? width?

  79. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by robothouse View Post
    Update on my tubeless setup...
    45mi shredder ride 4k climbing in goathead central Tucson Az &
    2 day bike-packing ~40mi on the Black Canyon Trail which has some gnarly tire flattener sections.
    ...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!

    Also, unless you're doing mega-drops and DH sections, this thing handles about the same as my Kona Unit with a F29!!!
    crazy, mine required foam (for floor pump bead seating) and keeps burping at moderate pressures, and I've only set it up tubeless in the front! 27tpi tires. The tires weren't all that easy to get on the rim either.

  80. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by robothouse View Post
    Update on my tubeless setup...
    45mi shredder ride 4k climbing in goathead central Tucson Az &
    2 day bike-packing ~40mi on the Black Canyon Trail which has some gnarly tire flattener sections.
    ...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!

    Also, unless you're doing mega-drops and DH sections, this thing handles about the same as my Kona Unit with a F29!!!
    Are you saying you have the split tube right up against the bare rim?

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    Where do you guys see this new tire size going? Will there be more offerings or is this going to be it for tire selection? I like the idea of being able to use standard bike stuff and and getting some "fat bike" benefits.

    Also,

    Has anyone tried running their Krampus with normal 29er tires and wheels? Did you get a lot of pedal strikes? How low was your BB? Got a pic of the chainstay clearance in the rear with the knard and normal 29er tire? I am thinking that this might be just the ticket for a winter bike, if there is enough tire clearance.

  82. #882
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    I know I've said it numerous times, but I hope Surly makes a 29x3" Nate


    I would like to see a regular 29" tire mounted on the Rabbit Hole. I like the look of regular (2.2-2.4 width) tires on wide rims. I kind of wanted to build up a Karate Monkey with a Rabbit Hole wheelset and 29x2.4" tires to see what it was like if I didn't get a Krampus.

  83. #883
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    Fox fork???

    Can we please have a photo of the tire clearance on that Fox fork? What rims are those?
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  84. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel View Post
    Can we please have a photo of the tire clearance on that Fox fork? What rims are those?
    There are multiple pictures of the fox fork tire clearance in this thread already.

  85. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    I know I've said it numerous times, but I hope Surly makes a 29x3" Nate.
    Agreed on the face of the idea. However, the Knard is a decent rear tire already, what's needed is a front specific tire, so my vote would be, bring on the 29x3 Bud!!!!!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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    Sorry. I haven't had the time to go through all 29 pages of this thread.
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel View Post
    Sorry. I haven't had the time to go through all 29 pages of this thread.
    Let me google that for you

  88. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntm1973 View Post
    Where do you guys see this new tire size going? Will there be more offerings or is this going to be it for tire selection? I like the idea of being able to use standard bike stuff and and getting some "fat bike" benefits.
    The development of fat bike 26 x 4" rubber gives you an idea of what will happen. Surly ran with one general purpose tire for a few years until sales of fat bikes grew the market. Then they released a 2nd tire and then several tire options. Now you have a at least 1 non-QBP company [On One] putting out a quality 26 x 4" tire.

    My guess is that Surly/QBP will want to keep the buzz going on the Krampus/29+ idea so I would expect something new every year. They want the forums, blogs and mags buzzing so that the idea catches on.

    That could be a new tire or maybe Salsa will release a lighter AL 29+ bike. Maybe both.

    I think it will depend on sales numbers for the Krampus and also for 29+ tire/rims a la carte.

    To answer your question the other way the Knard won't be the only tire option in a couple years unless QBP is stuck with a bunch of 29+ tires and rims they can't sell. That doesn't seem likely.
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  89. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by robothouse View Post
    ...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!
    So you are running a split tube without any type of rim strip under it? My Knard and RH should be here today It's going on the front of my rigid SS. Going to try it on a P35 while I'm building the RH.

  90. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Salsa will release a lighter AL 29+ bike
    wouldn't shock me if we saw that this weekend.

  91. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntm1973 View Post
    Has anyone tried running their Krampus with normal 29er tires and wheels? Did you get a lot of pedal strikes? How low was your BB? Got a pic of the chainstay clearance in the rear with the knard and normal 29er tire? I am thinking that this might be just the ticket for a winter bike, if there is enough tire clearance.
    Surprisingly enough, the Krampus has a higher BB than a Karate Monkey:
    BB Drop:
    Karate Monkey: 68.0mm
    Krampus: 60.0mm
    Salsa El Mariachi: 60 mm

    So with all equal size 29er tires, the Krampus and El Mariachi will have the same bb height, and Karate Monkey will be lower.

  92. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    So you are running a split tube without any type of rim strip under it? My Knard and RH should be here today It's going on the front of my rigid SS. Going to try it on a P35 while I'm building the RH.
    Please give a review on how the Knard works with the P35.

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    Sorry folks, I guess I left some info out on the tubeless setup...

    - 120tpi Knard tires (front n rear)
    - no foam or gorilla tape used
    - used Surly's provided PVC 38mm rim-strip
    - used 26" tube split down the middle over Surly's rim-strip
    - 2.5oz of Stan's sealant per wheel... not much, I know... but I'm testing
    - used air compressor to inflate, both wheels sealed bead on the first try.
    - running happily with ~13psi on trail rides, holds air even overnight in sub 32F while bikepacking
    - brings 2 tubes for backup on rides, but am starting to feel pretty comfy with this setup after +100mi

    Everyone else I've been reading online use variations including foam, gorilla tape, 24" tubes, etc... these may provide added longevity, but time will tell.

  94. #894
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    Could someone with a medium Krampus measure the dimensions of the interior of the front triangle [ie. the size of a frame bag] pls?
    Safe riding,

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  95. #895
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    Thanks robothouse.

    Got my Knard 120 and RH today. Knard weighed 970g and RH was 700g. Don't have spokes or a hub yet for the RH, but I mounted the tire on a P35 and the RH with a tube. At 20psi, the tread width was 74mm and 74.5mm respectively. I was also able to get the tire to easily bead tubeless on the RH with just one wrap of clear package tape using a compressor. Was planning to use a 24 split tube but after this test I think I will mount it with just tape.

    At low psi, I think you could get away with running a split tube without a rim strip/tape.

  96. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I mounted the tire on a P35 and the RH with a tube. At 20psi, the tread width was 74mm and 74.5mm respectively.
    Aside from the minor difference in width, is there much of a noticable difference in profile between the tire on the two rims? I mounted a Knard on a P35 and the profile appears quite "eggy" (i.e. tall with substantial drop from the crown to the edge knobs). The pics I've seen of the Knard on a RH look similar, but a side by side comparison would be great.

  97. #897
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    miles e, I'll take some pics of the two later this week. I honestly didn't really pay any attention to the profile between the two rims. If I get the RH built before the weekend, I probably won't even try the P35 first.

  98. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    miles e, I'll take some pics of the two later this week. I honestly didn't really pay any attention to the profile between the two rims. If I get the RH built before the weekend, I probably won't even try the P35 first.
    Cool. I'm sure the RH is the optimal rim for the Knard, but I have a few reasons for wanting to use the P35 (which Surly did say was okay) so long as it doesn't handle to wonky. Maybe the low pressure will flatten the tire out once on the bike and negate some of what I'm seeing, but it seems like the cornering would be weird with such a tall profile.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  99. #899
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    Surly Krampus

    Just picked up mine...Surly Krampus-imageuploadedbytapatalk1361332664.163261.jpgSurly Krampus-imageuploadedbytapatalk1361332678.606772.jpgSurly Krampus-imageuploadedbytapatalk1361332700.590640.jpg

  100. #900
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    So I've just about concluded that tubeless won't work on these. I keep burping my front wheel unless I run the pressure much higher. Last night I lost so much air from losing bits here and there that I got a snake bite in the sidewall and couldn't get it to reseal and had to stick a tube in. I'm thinking the 27tpi tires are just lacking something that nicer folding tires have. I thought the 27tpi would be more durable and work better for tubeless, just with the weight penalty of the heavier, cheaper tire. I'm disappointed, this will be the first time for me running tubes in a few years!

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