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Thread: Surly Krampus

  1. #201
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    What about the rims?


  2. #202
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    If you're asking me?

    I looked at my email I got from them, and oddly, rims were listed, but unpriced, all the other items had prices.

    They will be shipping with the frames and tires, I would guess they made enough for "sets" only this time around, and subsequent orders will be more generous.

    No pricing makes me wonder if they are including the rims with the frame? Hmm......

    No other new, salient details on them otherwise.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    If you're asking me?

    I looked at my email I got from them, and oddly, rims were listed, but unpriced, all the other items had prices.

    They will be shipping with the frames and tires, I would guess they made enough for "sets" only this time around, and subsequent orders will be more generous.

    No pricing makes me wonder if they are including the rims with the frame? Hmm......

    No other new, salient details on them otherwise.
    I diffently want to preorder one but would like to know the geometry first to be sure of what size to purchase. Has Surly released any geometry data yet?

  4. #204
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    I assume the top tube lengths will all be the same as every other model the have, standover might be the same? ...errr, I'd like to know as well.

    Also, what was the frame only pricing again? And Mendon you're saying the frame only price = 2 tires and maybe two rims as well? 120tpi or 32?
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    And Mendon you're saying the frame only price = 2 tires and maybe two rims as well? 120tpi or 32?
    My understanding, based on his comments, was that the frame/fork price might possibly include the rims (there was no price listed for rims), but the tires would be sold separately (since a price was listed for the tires).


  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    My understanding, based on his comments, was that the frame/fork price might possibly include the rims (there was no price listed for rims), but the tires would be sold separately (since a price was listed for the tires).
    Correct.

    All supposition on that right now. When I get more info I'll pass it on assuming someone else hasn't already by then.

    Geometry. My rep couldn't access it, which makes me think it's not been released to the public yet.

    More on that as I hear too.....

    One thing on the tires in case I created confusion, this first run, they only made enough tires for the framesets/completes.

    Why the rims aren't priced, but the tires are is a headscratcher....
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  7. #207
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    Fat 29er rims are not easily accessed. And nothing that I have found is light enough to make this project very feasible. They are pretty much going to have to provide rims.

    I also think it's a little premature of them to sell bikes before they can sell the spare tires that the frame is dedicated to. Not that you couldn't run others, but then what is the point?

    It's not like they are a start up company and need pre-sale financing to pay for shop time.

    I wonder if they will offer a cheaper single speed version.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I also think it's a little premature of them to sell bikes before they can sell the spare tires that the frame is dedicated to. Not that you couldn't run others, but then what is the point?
    +1 - It would be a little sad to slash open your Knard on a chunk of glass and not be able to buy a replacement...

    They may also be doing a small run of production tires/rims/frames to see if people have any problems that didn't show up in the prototype testing before they commit to a bigger production run.
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  9. #209
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    Krampus has a song and quite a nice one it is.

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  10. #210
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    "They may also be doing a small run of production tires/rims/frames to see if people have any problems that didn't show up in the prototype testing before they commit to a bigger production run."

    ^This^

    Also, new format, try it and see if it flies. Flops? Not like you had 5000 of them in the back room at that point.

    Not like every single guy on the interwebz that thinks it's cool, will actually translate into a purchase....
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  11. #211
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    I would love one of these. Looks like such great fun. I would like to know whether these wheels will fit in an existing suspension 29 fork?

  12. #212
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    I just want tires, I already have a frame and 50mm wheels to use them with. Sucks I have to wait till next summer to taste the candy...

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    So I was going to buy a Karate Monkey or similar, but I can't see any legitimate reason not to go with a Krampus instead if the geometry is within reason. I would build it with normal 29er wheels and tires, and maybe later get the 3" stuff. Thoughts? It seems to have all the same features, plus slacker head angle (which I very much like) and the ability to run big rubber....

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Train View Post
    So I was going to buy a Karate Monkey or similar, but I can't see any legitimate reason not to go with a Krampus instead if the geometry is within reason. I would build it with normal 29er wheels and tires, and maybe later get the 3" stuff. Thoughts? It seems to have all the same features, plus slacker head angle (which I very much like) and the ability to run big rubber....
    Karate Monkey always should be a little more manoeuvrable than a Krampus because of its steeper steering angle and shorter chainstays. Suppose Krampus will be a little more "downhill" orientated - which must not be bad

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Just got a call from Surly/QBP last night (I'd just closed, glad I took the call!)

    Apparently they are prebooking these, and not surprisingly, expect the first somewhat limited run, to sell out fast.

    Frame sets will be black, completes will be Moonlit Swamp (assuming that's the cool bass boat green we're seeing).

    Tires will be in 27 and 120 TPI.

    Tires will be sold with frames, no tires only for the first run, and no extra tires, two tires, one frame, you go now....

    Just tossing out info that I now have, didn't know if all that was already on the table.

    I did a preorder, and I would suggest anyone who wants them, to chat ASAP with their local Surly slinger about calling QBP first thing in the AM. Prebooking will commence Monday AM, and likely won't last till Tuesday.

    Go get 'em tiger(s).
    Thanks for the heads up MCC...just made my pre-order

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    I think it's a great idea to have wider bigger wheels. I think that if there were a 650B class wide rim with fat tires that would fit in existing 29er forks and frames, that would be a great way for current owners of 29ers to dip their toes in the wider fatter tire waters.
    Last edited by dakota650r; 08-05-2012 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Didn't mean to hit post just yet

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    Ohhh man. I am wondering now how long it'll be before I can snag just a rim and tiret

  19. #219
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    What's the official cost for frame? Rims? Tires?

    Looking to possibly order these vs a complete bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    What's the official cost for frame? Rims? Tires?

    Looking to possibly order these vs a complete bike.
    The complete bike is said to be available in March of 2013.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota650r View Post
    I think it's a great idea to have wider bigger wheels. I think that if there were a 650B class wide rim with fat tires that would fit in existing 29er forks and frames, that would be a great way for current owners of 29ers to dip their toes in the wider fatter tire waters.
    650B is not magic. It doesn't make chainstays on skinny wheeled bikes wider. Do take a ruler to 29" bike's chainstays, see how a 3" tire would do in terms of lateral clearance.
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    BFL outer diameter will not clear the Jones

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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe
    Those links didn't work for me. What is the actual OA Diameter and width of a BFL?
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    The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"

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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe
    I have BFL mounted on a 72mm rim on my Spaceframe (Truss fork) and there is plenty of clearance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe
    Well, that's what happens when you try to mount a bicycle frame inside another bicycle frame.

    Y'all should try to start another "Knard/Rabbit Hole in other bikes" thread for your respective bicycles. I started one in the Surly forum for Ogres/Karate Monkeys so as to not clutter up this Krampus thread with tire fitment questions about other bikes.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
    The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"
    So basically the same as a 3.8 fat tire. All my fat tires are 29" on 47mm rims and 3 1/4" wide. The Nates are a little wider.
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  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    So basically the same as a 3.8 fat tire. All my fat tires are 29" on 47mm rims and 3 1/4" wide. The Nates are a little wider.
    My 29 x 2.4" Racing Ralph is over 29" OD mounted on Flow rims. Knards will be something like the 30.4-30.5" Surly has said they'll be - similar to a BFL 4.7" tire.
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  30. #230
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    I have a frameset on pre-order, with rims and tires. This ain't cheap stuff. My LBS guy tells me that Surly expects to ship framesets in December. I asked for a Large. No geometry information available, so that will have to do.

    So, four months or so to assemble the rest of the parts to build a bike. There is little published information about the frame. I guess I can assume a seatpost diameter of 27.2mm, since the other Surly frames use that size. Did eventually find that the rims are drilled with 64 holes, so I will need 32 hole hubs.

    Thanks for the heads-up on pre-ordering. I don't know if they sold out the pre-order amount yet, but I did get my order in on August 6th. I am excited, but do not like to wait four months for the frameset, rims, and tires.
    Last edited by DavyRay; 08-08-2012 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Reduce whining. Add info.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Knards will be something like the 30.4-30.5" Surly has said they'll be - similar to a BFL 4.7" tire.
    That is the statement that prompted me to ask how big BFLs were. Someone measured them and said they were 29" in dia. That is not 30.5".

    My 2.5 Dissents are around 29.5" so I wouldn't be surprised it the Knards are 30.5"

    But the BFLs do not appear to be that big.
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  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    That is the statement that prompted me to ask how big BFLs were. Someone measured them and said they were 29" in dia. That is not 30.5".

    My 2.5 Dissents are around 29.5" so I wouldn't be surprised it the Knards are 30.5"

    But the BFLs do not appear to be that big.
    Who stated this? Seems like measuring error. 29" tall implies just 3.25" above the rim edge.
    Maybe on a crazy wide rim it will flatten out to be 29". and for the bike computer 29" x pi might be quite accurate considering sag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
    The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"
    I have found that rim width doesn't make much difference in diameter either despite the logic that it should. Maybe if you went from a 1/2'' to a 4" it might but going from say 25mm to 35mm it didn't.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Krampus-bfl-29-inch.jpg  

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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavyRay View Post
    I have a frameset on pre-order, with rims and tires. This ain't cheap stuff. My LBS guy tells me that Surly expects to ship framesets in December.
    So how much are they? I've read $750 for the frameset. How much for rims and tires?

    Thanks!

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    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
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  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
    Holy crap!!!
    I understand the challenges inherent when starting something different and new like this, economies of scale, yadda yadda yadda...but this is a lot. Even at shop-guy pricing, I don't know if I can justify these. Hopefully when they sell a bunch, the pricing will come down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    I have BFL mounted on a 72mm rim on my Spaceframe (Truss fork) and there is plenty of clearance.
    The crown clearance is what Im concerned about, not the width. The Knard is suppuse to be 30.5" OD tall. Even with my Hans Dampf 2.35 on P35 rim, there is 1/2" of clearance.

    No matter, I think Id like to ride these tires double fat anyway.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
    Haha, I own a fatbike, so I looked at those prices and went "hmm, that's about right."

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    27.2 seatpost is a big mistake, I hope they don't go this route. I bend these suckers like they're wet noodles. Yes Thomsons are hard to bend, but why choose a size that is prone to bending? I'm only 185, if I rode like I do and were 210, I don't think a 27.2 thomson would survive.

    30.9 and 31.6 are very common sizes and both would do a much better job, especially on this new more downhill oriented 29er.

    And price... I was thinking I'd go ahead and order one of these, but it looks like just buying the necessary pieces is over $1k (shop cost), so I'll probably wait and hope economies of scale make this more affordable in another year.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    27.2 seatpost is a big mistake, I hope they don't go this route. I bend these suckers like they're wet noodles. Yes Thomsons are hard to bend, but why choose a size that is prone to bending? I'm only 185, if I rode like I do and were 210, I don't think a 27.2 thomson would survive.

    30.9 and 31.6 are very common sizes and both would do a much better job, especially on this new more downhill oriented 29er.

    And price... I was thinking I'd go ahead and order one of these, but it looks like just buying the necessary pieces is over $1k (shop cost), so I'll probably wait and hope economies of scale make this more affordable in another year.
    Not to keep harping on the "I guess you've never owned a fatbike" thing, but the economies of scale thing probably won't work out to your advantage within a year... as an example, the Surly Endomorph tire, which has been around since at least 2006, is still fetching $110 at a lot of vendors. You can find them here and there for $70 or so, but I bet a loooooooot more of those have been sold in the past 6 years than what I reckon the quantities for the Knard will be in the first year. The Larry, Nate, Husker Du's, etc are constantly up in the $110-120 range.

    As far as the 27.2mm seatpost, I dunno, Surly likes that for some reason, probably for vibration damping(?)- but FWIW, my Pugsley has seen mostly rock crawling and rough trail riding, and I've never bent a seatpost, and I'm 200lbs without gear, and like to sit most of the time. I did bend the stock seat though, but that was because I had it setback quite a bit.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
    The low tpi tires will probably be less.

    With their fat tires the price keeps going up, as well as quality I think, and the price of a top line fat tire is in the $150 range. Gotta pay if you want to play. Nothing rides like a fat tire. I wish these were a little fatter actually unless they do end up at a true 3" width. 32" dia wouldn't hurt either. I don't know if there will be any advantage if they are only a tiny bit taller than a fat tire but not as wide. Fat tires work better than 29.5" 29er tires.

    As far as the rims, $150 sound a little greedy. It doesn't really cost much more to make a 50mm than a 35mm and look where P35s are in price.
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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post

    As far as the 27.2mm seatpost, I dunno, Surly likes that for some reason, probably for vibration damping(?)- but FWIW, my Pugsley has seen mostly rock crawling and rough trail riding, and I've never bent a seatpost, and I'm 200lbs without gear, and like to sit most of the time. I did bend the stock seat though, but that was because I had it setback quite a bit.
    I've been running an Alien lightweight aluminum 27.2 seat post for at least 10 years on one bike that has morphed into many different creations. All of them ridden hard, and I have never had an issue. Skinny does provide for a little bit a give and makes for a better ride. I'm in the 200lb range too. My 215lb friend who breaks things regularly road it the other day and it survived.

    27.2 titanium would probably make for a nice ride.
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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    As far as the rims, $150 sound a little greedy. It doesn't really cost much more to make a 50mm than a 35mm and look where P35s are in price.
    It's all about volume of production not the quantity of aluminum used. P35s will sell 100 to every Rabbit Hole rim sold that drops the cost significantly.
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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Haha, I own a fatbike, so I looked at those prices and went "hmm, that's about right."
    Yeah, but on the flip side. For those prices, I'd rather just go full fat since it will be a second bike anyway. I wonder how many other people will thing along the same lines. A 65mm Marge Lite and a Husker Du really aren't that much heavier.

    Some people may want it for a one bike quiver, I totally get that.
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    Surly details

    We'll be posting extensively throughout the week starting Monday August 13th about all of our new gizmos and do-dads on our blog at surlybikes dot com. We will try and cover all of your questions we've seen on these forums.

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    Seems VERY greedy on these tires. As a motocross/off road motorcycle rider, we pay $70 for top shelf terrain specific full knobby tires from major mfg. like Dunlop Michelin Bridgestone.....just sayin.

  47. #247
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    The tires are only worth what people will pay for them. I have a feeling that the prices will stay for now. As previously mentioned, fatbike tires are selling well around that price.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJones View Post
    So how much are they? I've read $750 for the frameset. How much for rims and tires?

    Thanks!
    On the phone, my LBS guy said $725 for the frameset, $150 for the rim, $90 for the 27tpi tire, and $120-130 for the 120tpi tire. This was all verbal. I was a bit shocked at the prices, but made the pre-order anyway. I went for the 120tpi tires.

    I'm now looking for parts to complete the build in four months or so. I am actually considering making a gruppo by robbing parts from my 2007 Diamondback Response Sport. Wouldn't that be cool? Not exactly like the SLX gruppo planned for the production bike. That would be Hayes mechanical disk brakes and Alvio derailleur.

    I am going to attend a promo event in Lake Norman State Park. Troutman, NC this upcoming weekend. I hope to see a Krampus or two there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grunkster View Post
    Seems VERY greedy on these tires. As a motocross/off road motorcycle rider, we pay $70 for top shelf terrain specific full knobby tires from major mfg. like Dunlop Michelin Bridgestone.....just sayin.
    The comparison between bike tires and moto/car tires is invalid. I get what you are saying, but it's apples and oranges.

    As far as I understand, Surly, when they came out with the Endomorph, had to contract with Innova to manfacture a mold large enough to make that tire- nothing that big heretofore had existed. That costs $$$.

    I can't say what went into making a 29x3 tire, but yeah, apples and oranges.

  50. #250
    tl1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob@Surly View Post
    We'll be posting extensively throughout the week starting Monday August 13th about all of our new gizmos and do-dads on our blog at surlybikes dot com. We will try and cover all of your questions we've seen on these forums.

    End transmission.

    BoB
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