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Thread: Surly Krampus

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    How does moving the bb affect the rear axle location?

    Yeah. That was a dumb thought on my part.

    Edit: Well, it wasn't really a thought at all. I think that was the mistake.

  2. #152
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    By the way, JNCarpenter, I covet your bike. Probably the most flexible bike I've seen. Full fat, 29er, fat front, now the Rabbit Hole/Knard. I guess the Pugs is the closest production bike to being able to do all these things. I wonder how your bike would do with 650b?

    If I were a bike producer, I would be striving to create a bike that has the flexibility to do all these wheel sizes well. Surly really is opening doors for others.

  3. #153
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    Good job! Surly Krampus in Japan

    Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.

    Very much not stock-standard, not production versions.

    They made my Karate Monkey with 47mm Kris Holm rims + 2.3 tyres look like a puny wee road bike.

    More pics here: Surly Japan Tour in Sapporo (2012) - a set on Flickr











    Last edited by jollynut; 07-31-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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  4. #154
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    So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.

    I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide.

    Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?

  5. #155
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    Thor explained to me today that they are both single wall and double wall. That is, they are double on the sides, and single in the middle.
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    Clueless question: what headset system is used? Are the top and bottom bearing cups pressfit into the frame or is part of this system of the dropin integrated type? Thanks

  7. #157
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    One of the coolest things about Surly is that they use words in their advertisements/marketing that are not allowed to be posted here on this forum.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollynut View Post
    Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.

    Very much not stock-standard, not production versions.

    They made my Karate Monkey with 47mm Kris Holm rims + 2.3 tyres look like a puny wee road bike.

    More pics here: Surly Japan Tour in Sapporo (2012) - a set on Flickr

    Thanks for the pics....
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There aren't many 'stock' 29" frames that the RH/Knard are gonna fit into.

    Not without some serious muffin top action anyway.

    I had to run a 2.4 Ardent out back on an amphibious tour of Canyonlands this spring. No match for the Knard--none. 50mm rims pictured.

    There were enough hard surfaces on this route that full fat made no sense--too heavy, too slow, too big of a magnet for goatheads. And enough soft surfaces that 'normal' 29" didn't make much sense either. The Krampus platform ticked all the right boxes, but since the frame/fork weren't available yet I did the next best thing.

    The combined speed and float are indeed the answer to the question that I've been asking the last few years. Now that this platform exists I've begun plotting other, similar, but better tours to places I'd not have wanted to go before.

    Gonna be a good fall. And winter. And spring...

    I heart Surly.

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    This is what I was hoping to see. I am already thinking along these lines for some bikepacking trips.
    Thanks for the input, Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jollynut View Post

    Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?

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    awww man that super metal flakey paint would have been awesome, maybe not in that xmas green but still. probably more $$$ though to paint, i suppose it may have been axed to keep the cost down

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?
    The metallic/flecked green paint-job version was there yesterday also; I was told that that will be the production color. That metallic green is really nice in sunlight; photos do not do it justice. Photos of the metallic green always seem to show the color up much darker than it really is. The light-mint-green shown here is just a one-off job. I didn't ask about any other colors. But if previous bikes are any indication, I extremely highly doubt there will be color choices available
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    awww man that super metal flakey paint would have been awesome, maybe not in that xmas green but still. probably more $$$ though to paint, i suppose it may have been axed to keep the cost down
    See the reply below...this is a one-off color. The metallic green is still the planned production color.
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  14. #164
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    too lazy to read the whole thread (tl;dr) but is the front wheel a good spacing or the old 100mm standard? I would be highly disappointed if it wasn't a 135mm spacing. Hard to tell from the pictures.

    edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    too lazy to read the whole thread (tl;dr) but is the front wheel a good spacing or the old 100mm standard? I would be highly disappointed if it wasn't a 135mm spacing. Hard to tell from the pictures.

    edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.
    No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.
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  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.
    I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.
    Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.
    Safe riding,

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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.
    OD is 30.4" Surly says their 3" 29er rubber has the same outer diameter as a Big Fat Larry and that it will work in a Pugs on their 50mm rim.

    It will also work in a Surly Ogre fork.
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.
    Everything I've read says that this was the precise design challenge that Surly posed for themselves.

    I know this is a probably a dumb question to most of you, but their other self-imposed challenge was to use a "no-offset fork." What does that mean, exactly? What's the value of drastically increasing trail figures? Not trying to be coy - I really just don't know.

    Or, by "offset," are they talking about side-to-side shifts and wider front hubs, like the Pugsly uses?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Or, by "offset," are they talking about side-to-side shifts and wider front hubs, like the Pugsly uses?
    Offset to the side as in the Pugs to get driveline clearance in the rear. There isn't any need for an offset fork unless you want the wheels to be swappable front to rear like the Pugs.
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  21. #171
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    The Moonlander fork is non-offset 135mm and it should work. I have one on my Pugs with a BFL on a Rolling Daryl rim so the Knard/Rabbit Hole combo should fit fine. I switch it out and run it on my Niner MCR occasionally for the fat front setup and it works there too.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.

    I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide.

    Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?
    Granted single wall are not as strong as double wall and if they made them really thin and also drilled/cut double wall they might get the weight down some. But weight is an issue when rims get wide and with more tire to protect the rim you can get away with more. I have some 29er Kris Holm FR 47mm rims on as set of wheels and they are 895g each for those rims. That rim plus a heavy tire make for some heavy ass wheels.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  23. #173
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    [QUOTE=jollynut;9549538]Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.



    thank you very much
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    Would a "Lefty" Krampus be possible?

    Thanx, Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.
    Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.
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  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.
    Less trail doesn't give you slower steering. The lighter tire/rim should also steer more easily than a fat front. I'd expect a more lively ride.
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  27. #177
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    At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.
    My thoughts exactly.

  29. #179
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    Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?
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  30. #180
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    Opps. Double.
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  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?
    I talked to them at Surly and they said don't build anything around the current size. Wait until it goes into production at the end of the year. Guess they are still testing.

    But I would still like to hear the actual measurements both full width and OA Diameter. My 3.8 and 4" tires are actually only 3 1/4" wide on 47mm rims.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.
    That frequently happens with Surly bikes. I'm about to buy my fourth and most of them were like that

  33. #183
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    Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol

  34. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    t Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus?
    I can't see any reason not to buy a Krampus frame or complete if you are buying a new bike. What's the point of buying a KM when it's never going to be able to run 29 x 3" tires?

    You'll probably regret that decision very quickly.

    If you buy a Krampus frame and decide to run narrower 29er wheels and rubber it's no problem.
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  35. #185
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    that's what I want to consider. would the bb be too low on the krampus with regular 29" wheels, though?

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    that's what I want to consider. would the bb be too low on the krampus with regular 29" wheels, though?
    I can't say until they publish the frame specs.

    But let me say this a lot of fat bikers talk about using skinny 29er wheels/tires when they are buying their fat bikes. Very few actually bother because they like the way fat rubber works.

    Your BB will be a bit lower with normal 29er rubber, but that's secondary in my mind to getting access to 3" 29er tires. You may never want to use smaller rubber.
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  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I talked to them at Surly and they said don't build anything around the current size. Wait until it goes into production at the end of the year. Guess they are still testing.

    But I would still like to hear the actual measurements both full width and OA Diameter. My 3.8 and 4" tires are actually only 3 1/4" wide on 47mm rims.
    modifier- Gotcha, after more measuring tonight, it really doesn't matter. I'd have to buy a second frame anyway.
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  38. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a ss View Post
    looking for opinions, guys...i'm most likely going to purchase either the krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient i get and if/when i sell my stumpjumper). I read (on here i think) that the rabbit hole/knard will fit on the front of the karate monkey and a rabbit hole with a 29x2.5 tire (i think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a km vs a krampus and just making it like a krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since i'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a stumpjumper? Lol



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  39. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?
    I'm thinking if Surly wanted that info out there they'd have put it there themselves.

    So, for now, sorry--nope.

  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol
    My KM rubs in the rear with the wheel slammed foward in the slots. This is running a velocity p35 and racing ralph 2.4. I don't think the rabbit rim with a 2.5 will fit even pushed backwards.
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  41. #191
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    A Krampus with skinny rear tire, or 2 skinnies for that matter, will ride differently from a KM with 29+ front or 2 skinnies. Apparently Krampus will get a (very?) slacked out front end, whereas KM is actually one of the steeper ones still on the market.
    I just want to know Krampus' fork specs. Especially the rake (offset has proven too confusing a word in fat bike-context). Sortof hoping there will be significantly more rake than on the KM (43mm), but not counting on it.
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  42. #192
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    Regarding a KM with a 2.5" tire on a Rabbit Hole, right now I'm running 2.3" Big Apples on Alex Adventurer (not so wide) rims on an Ogre (same as KM), and using Monkey Nuts it just *barely* clears the front derailleur. I'm not sure about side clearance, though

  43. #193
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    "thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.

  44. #194
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    Would the knard work on a standard, wider mtb rim? like for instance, the salsa ride and smile at 29mm? just a thought.

  45. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkrosbakken View Post
    Would the knard work on a standard, wider mtb rim? like for instance, the salsa ride and smile at 29mm? just a thought.
    You can mount it to a narrow 29er rim. Whether you like how it rides is another matter.

    I just swapped some 2.4" MTB tires from a standard rim to a Velocity P35. The wide tire on a wider rim is a noticeable improvement - particularly in steering accuracy. The wide tire of the narrower rim isn't as well supported and flexes more giving a vague feeling to the bike.

    The 2.4" tires on the narrower rims are totally useable, but they are much better on a wider rim.
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    Ya that's what I was afraid of. I'll still give it a try.

  47. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    "thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.
    Yup, I now run mine mid way in the drops with no issue. I should clarify, I only had rub when cranking uphill super hard with the bike set up single speed.
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  48. #198
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    Decisions, decisions lol

  49. #199
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    Thin this one will be my new commuter/fun bike.
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  50. #200
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    Just got a call from Surly/QBP last night (I'd just closed, glad I took the call!)

    Apparently they are prebooking these, and not surprisingly, expect the first somewhat limited run, to sell out fast.

    Frame sets will be black, completes will be Moonlit Swamp (assuming that's the cool bass boat green we're seeing).

    Tires will be in 27 and 120 TPI.

    Tires will be sold with frames, no tires only for the first run, and no extra tires, two tires, one frame, you go now....

    Just tossing out info that I now have, didn't know if all that was already on the table.

    I did a preorder, and I would suggest anyone who wants them, to chat ASAP with their local Surly slinger about calling QBP first thing in the AM. Prebooking will commence Monday AM, and likely won't last till Tuesday.

    Go get 'em tiger(s).
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