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Thread: Surly Krampus

  1. #201
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    What about the rims?


  2. #202
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    If you're asking me?

    I looked at my email I got from them, and oddly, rims were listed, but unpriced, all the other items had prices.

    They will be shipping with the frames and tires, I would guess they made enough for "sets" only this time around, and subsequent orders will be more generous.

    No pricing makes me wonder if they are including the rims with the frame? Hmm......

    No other new, salient details on them otherwise.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    If you're asking me?

    I looked at my email I got from them, and oddly, rims were listed, but unpriced, all the other items had prices.

    They will be shipping with the frames and tires, I would guess they made enough for "sets" only this time around, and subsequent orders will be more generous.

    No pricing makes me wonder if they are including the rims with the frame? Hmm......

    No other new, salient details on them otherwise.
    I diffently want to preorder one but would like to know the geometry first to be sure of what size to purchase. Has Surly released any geometry data yet?

  4. #204
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    I assume the top tube lengths will all be the same as every other model the have, standover might be the same? ...errr, I'd like to know as well.

    Also, what was the frame only pricing again? And Mendon you're saying the frame only price = 2 tires and maybe two rims as well? 120tpi or 32?
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    And Mendon you're saying the frame only price = 2 tires and maybe two rims as well? 120tpi or 32?
    My understanding, based on his comments, was that the frame/fork price might possibly include the rims (there was no price listed for rims), but the tires would be sold separately (since a price was listed for the tires).


  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    My understanding, based on his comments, was that the frame/fork price might possibly include the rims (there was no price listed for rims), but the tires would be sold separately (since a price was listed for the tires).
    Correct.

    All supposition on that right now. When I get more info I'll pass it on assuming someone else hasn't already by then.

    Geometry. My rep couldn't access it, which makes me think it's not been released to the public yet.

    More on that as I hear too.....

    One thing on the tires in case I created confusion, this first run, they only made enough tires for the framesets/completes.

    Why the rims aren't priced, but the tires are is a headscratcher....
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  7. #207
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    Fat 29er rims are not easily accessed. And nothing that I have found is light enough to make this project very feasible. They are pretty much going to have to provide rims.

    I also think it's a little premature of them to sell bikes before they can sell the spare tires that the frame is dedicated to. Not that you couldn't run others, but then what is the point?

    It's not like they are a start up company and need pre-sale financing to pay for shop time.

    I wonder if they will offer a cheaper single speed version.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I also think it's a little premature of them to sell bikes before they can sell the spare tires that the frame is dedicated to. Not that you couldn't run others, but then what is the point?
    +1 - It would be a little sad to slash open your Knard on a chunk of glass and not be able to buy a replacement...

    They may also be doing a small run of production tires/rims/frames to see if people have any problems that didn't show up in the prototype testing before they commit to a bigger production run.
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  9. #209
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    Krampus has a song and quite a nice one it is.

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  10. #210
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    "They may also be doing a small run of production tires/rims/frames to see if people have any problems that didn't show up in the prototype testing before they commit to a bigger production run."

    ^This^

    Also, new format, try it and see if it flies. Flops? Not like you had 5000 of them in the back room at that point.

    Not like every single guy on the interwebz that thinks it's cool, will actually translate into a purchase....
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  11. #211
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    I would love one of these. Looks like such great fun. I would like to know whether these wheels will fit in an existing suspension 29 fork?

  12. #212
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    I just want tires, I already have a frame and 50mm wheels to use them with. Sucks I have to wait till next summer to taste the candy...

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    So I was going to buy a Karate Monkey or similar, but I can't see any legitimate reason not to go with a Krampus instead if the geometry is within reason. I would build it with normal 29er wheels and tires, and maybe later get the 3" stuff. Thoughts? It seems to have all the same features, plus slacker head angle (which I very much like) and the ability to run big rubber....

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Train View Post
    So I was going to buy a Karate Monkey or similar, but I can't see any legitimate reason not to go with a Krampus instead if the geometry is within reason. I would build it with normal 29er wheels and tires, and maybe later get the 3" stuff. Thoughts? It seems to have all the same features, plus slacker head angle (which I very much like) and the ability to run big rubber....
    Karate Monkey always should be a little more manoeuvrable than a Krampus because of its steeper steering angle and shorter chainstays. Suppose Krampus will be a little more "downhill" orientated - which must not be bad

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Just got a call from Surly/QBP last night (I'd just closed, glad I took the call!)

    Apparently they are prebooking these, and not surprisingly, expect the first somewhat limited run, to sell out fast.

    Frame sets will be black, completes will be Moonlit Swamp (assuming that's the cool bass boat green we're seeing).

    Tires will be in 27 and 120 TPI.

    Tires will be sold with frames, no tires only for the first run, and no extra tires, two tires, one frame, you go now....

    Just tossing out info that I now have, didn't know if all that was already on the table.

    I did a preorder, and I would suggest anyone who wants them, to chat ASAP with their local Surly slinger about calling QBP first thing in the AM. Prebooking will commence Monday AM, and likely won't last till Tuesday.

    Go get 'em tiger(s).
    Thanks for the heads up MCC...just made my pre-order

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    I think it's a great idea to have wider bigger wheels. I think that if there were a 650B class wide rim with fat tires that would fit in existing 29er forks and frames, that would be a great way for current owners of 29ers to dip their toes in the wider fatter tire waters.
    Last edited by dakota650r; 08-05-2012 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Didn't mean to hit post just yet

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    Ohhh man. I am wondering now how long it'll be before I can snag just a rim and tiret

  19. #219
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    What's the official cost for frame? Rims? Tires?

    Looking to possibly order these vs a complete bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    What's the official cost for frame? Rims? Tires?

    Looking to possibly order these vs a complete bike.
    The complete bike is said to be available in March of 2013.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dakota650r View Post
    I think it's a great idea to have wider bigger wheels. I think that if there were a 650B class wide rim with fat tires that would fit in existing 29er forks and frames, that would be a great way for current owners of 29ers to dip their toes in the wider fatter tire waters.
    650B is not magic. It doesn't make chainstays on skinny wheeled bikes wider. Do take a ruler to 29" bike's chainstays, see how a 3" tire would do in terms of lateral clearance.
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    BFL outer diameter will not clear the Jones

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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe
    Those links didn't work for me. What is the actual OA Diameter and width of a BFL?
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    The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"

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  26. #226
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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe
    I have BFL mounted on a 72mm rim on my Spaceframe (Truss fork) and there is plenty of clearance.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
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    It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe
    Well, that's what happens when you try to mount a bicycle frame inside another bicycle frame.

    Y'all should try to start another "Knard/Rabbit Hole in other bikes" thread for your respective bicycles. I started one in the Surly forum for Ogres/Karate Monkeys so as to not clutter up this Krampus thread with tire fitment questions about other bikes.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
    The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"
    So basically the same as a 3.8 fat tire. All my fat tires are 29" on 47mm rims and 3 1/4" wide. The Nates are a little wider.
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  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    So basically the same as a 3.8 fat tire. All my fat tires are 29" on 47mm rims and 3 1/4" wide. The Nates are a little wider.
    My 29 x 2.4" Racing Ralph is over 29" OD mounted on Flow rims. Knards will be something like the 30.4-30.5" Surly has said they'll be - similar to a BFL 4.7" tire.
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  30. #230
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    I have a frameset on pre-order, with rims and tires. This ain't cheap stuff. My LBS guy tells me that Surly expects to ship framesets in December. I asked for a Large. No geometry information available, so that will have to do.

    So, four months or so to assemble the rest of the parts to build a bike. There is little published information about the frame. I guess I can assume a seatpost diameter of 27.2mm, since the other Surly frames use that size. Did eventually find that the rims are drilled with 64 holes, so I will need 32 hole hubs.

    Thanks for the heads-up on pre-ordering. I don't know if they sold out the pre-order amount yet, but I did get my order in on August 6th. I am excited, but do not like to wait four months for the frameset, rims, and tires.
    Last edited by DavyRay; 08-08-2012 at 03:31 AM. Reason: Reduce whining. Add info.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Knards will be something like the 30.4-30.5" Surly has said they'll be - similar to a BFL 4.7" tire.
    That is the statement that prompted me to ask how big BFLs were. Someone measured them and said they were 29" in dia. That is not 30.5".

    My 2.5 Dissents are around 29.5" so I wouldn't be surprised it the Knards are 30.5"

    But the BFLs do not appear to be that big.
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  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    That is the statement that prompted me to ask how big BFLs were. Someone measured them and said they were 29" in dia. That is not 30.5".

    My 2.5 Dissents are around 29.5" so I wouldn't be surprised it the Knards are 30.5"

    But the BFLs do not appear to be that big.
    Who stated this? Seems like measuring error. 29" tall implies just 3.25" above the rim edge.
    Maybe on a crazy wide rim it will flatten out to be 29". and for the bike computer 29" x pi might be quite accurate considering sag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeviChe View Post
    The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"
    I have found that rim width doesn't make much difference in diameter either despite the logic that it should. Maybe if you went from a 1/2'' to a 4" it might but going from say 25mm to 35mm it didn't.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Krampus-bfl-29-inch.jpg  

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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavyRay View Post
    I have a frameset on pre-order, with rims and tires. This ain't cheap stuff. My LBS guy tells me that Surly expects to ship framesets in December.
    So how much are they? I've read $750 for the frameset. How much for rims and tires?

    Thanks!

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    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
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  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
    Holy crap!!!
    I understand the challenges inherent when starting something different and new like this, economies of scale, yadda yadda yadda...but this is a lot. Even at shop-guy pricing, I don't know if I can justify these. Hopefully when they sell a bunch, the pricing will come down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    I have BFL mounted on a 72mm rim on my Spaceframe (Truss fork) and there is plenty of clearance.
    The crown clearance is what Im concerned about, not the width. The Knard is suppuse to be 30.5" OD tall. Even with my Hans Dampf 2.35 on P35 rim, there is 1/2" of clearance.

    No matter, I think Id like to ride these tires double fat anyway.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
    Haha, I own a fatbike, so I looked at those prices and went "hmm, that's about right."

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    27.2 seatpost is a big mistake, I hope they don't go this route. I bend these suckers like they're wet noodles. Yes Thomsons are hard to bend, but why choose a size that is prone to bending? I'm only 185, if I rode like I do and were 210, I don't think a 27.2 thomson would survive.

    30.9 and 31.6 are very common sizes and both would do a much better job, especially on this new more downhill oriented 29er.

    And price... I was thinking I'd go ahead and order one of these, but it looks like just buying the necessary pieces is over $1k (shop cost), so I'll probably wait and hope economies of scale make this more affordable in another year.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    27.2 seatpost is a big mistake, I hope they don't go this route. I bend these suckers like they're wet noodles. Yes Thomsons are hard to bend, but why choose a size that is prone to bending? I'm only 185, if I rode like I do and were 210, I don't think a 27.2 thomson would survive.

    30.9 and 31.6 are very common sizes and both would do a much better job, especially on this new more downhill oriented 29er.

    And price... I was thinking I'd go ahead and order one of these, but it looks like just buying the necessary pieces is over $1k (shop cost), so I'll probably wait and hope economies of scale make this more affordable in another year.
    Not to keep harping on the "I guess you've never owned a fatbike" thing, but the economies of scale thing probably won't work out to your advantage within a year... as an example, the Surly Endomorph tire, which has been around since at least 2006, is still fetching $110 at a lot of vendors. You can find them here and there for $70 or so, but I bet a loooooooot more of those have been sold in the past 6 years than what I reckon the quantities for the Knard will be in the first year. The Larry, Nate, Husker Du's, etc are constantly up in the $110-120 range.

    As far as the 27.2mm seatpost, I dunno, Surly likes that for some reason, probably for vibration damping(?)- but FWIW, my Pugsley has seen mostly rock crawling and rough trail riding, and I've never bent a seatpost, and I'm 200lbs without gear, and like to sit most of the time. I did bend the stock seat though, but that was because I had it setback quite a bit.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.

    yikes.

    I fold.
    The low tpi tires will probably be less.

    With their fat tires the price keeps going up, as well as quality I think, and the price of a top line fat tire is in the $150 range. Gotta pay if you want to play. Nothing rides like a fat tire. I wish these were a little fatter actually unless they do end up at a true 3" width. 32" dia wouldn't hurt either. I don't know if there will be any advantage if they are only a tiny bit taller than a fat tire but not as wide. Fat tires work better than 29.5" 29er tires.

    As far as the rims, $150 sound a little greedy. It doesn't really cost much more to make a 50mm than a 35mm and look where P35s are in price.
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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post

    As far as the 27.2mm seatpost, I dunno, Surly likes that for some reason, probably for vibration damping(?)- but FWIW, my Pugsley has seen mostly rock crawling and rough trail riding, and I've never bent a seatpost, and I'm 200lbs without gear, and like to sit most of the time. I did bend the stock seat though, but that was because I had it setback quite a bit.
    I've been running an Alien lightweight aluminum 27.2 seat post for at least 10 years on one bike that has morphed into many different creations. All of them ridden hard, and I have never had an issue. Skinny does provide for a little bit a give and makes for a better ride. I'm in the 200lb range too. My 215lb friend who breaks things regularly road it the other day and it survived.

    27.2 titanium would probably make for a nice ride.
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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    As far as the rims, $150 sound a little greedy. It doesn't really cost much more to make a 50mm than a 35mm and look where P35s are in price.
    It's all about volume of production not the quantity of aluminum used. P35s will sell 100 to every Rabbit Hole rim sold that drops the cost significantly.
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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Haha, I own a fatbike, so I looked at those prices and went "hmm, that's about right."
    Yeah, but on the flip side. For those prices, I'd rather just go full fat since it will be a second bike anyway. I wonder how many other people will thing along the same lines. A 65mm Marge Lite and a Husker Du really aren't that much heavier.

    Some people may want it for a one bike quiver, I totally get that.
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    Surly details

    We'll be posting extensively throughout the week starting Monday August 13th about all of our new gizmos and do-dads on our blog at surlybikes dot com. We will try and cover all of your questions we've seen on these forums.

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  46. #246
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    Seems VERY greedy on these tires. As a motocross/off road motorcycle rider, we pay $70 for top shelf terrain specific full knobby tires from major mfg. like Dunlop Michelin Bridgestone.....just sayin.

  47. #247
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    The tires are only worth what people will pay for them. I have a feeling that the prices will stay for now. As previously mentioned, fatbike tires are selling well around that price.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJones View Post
    So how much are they? I've read $750 for the frameset. How much for rims and tires?

    Thanks!
    On the phone, my LBS guy said $725 for the frameset, $150 for the rim, $90 for the 27tpi tire, and $120-130 for the 120tpi tire. This was all verbal. I was a bit shocked at the prices, but made the pre-order anyway. I went for the 120tpi tires.

    I'm now looking for parts to complete the build in four months or so. I am actually considering making a gruppo by robbing parts from my 2007 Diamondback Response Sport. Wouldn't that be cool? Not exactly like the SLX gruppo planned for the production bike. That would be Hayes mechanical disk brakes and Alvio derailleur.

    I am going to attend a promo event in Lake Norman State Park. Troutman, NC this upcoming weekend. I hope to see a Krampus or two there.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunkster View Post
    Seems VERY greedy on these tires. As a motocross/off road motorcycle rider, we pay $70 for top shelf terrain specific full knobby tires from major mfg. like Dunlop Michelin Bridgestone.....just sayin.
    The comparison between bike tires and moto/car tires is invalid. I get what you are saying, but it's apples and oranges.

    As far as I understand, Surly, when they came out with the Endomorph, had to contract with Innova to manfacture a mold large enough to make that tire- nothing that big heretofore had existed. That costs $$$.

    I can't say what went into making a 29x3 tire, but yeah, apples and oranges.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob@Surly View Post
    We'll be posting extensively throughout the week starting Monday August 13th about all of our new gizmos and do-dads on our blog at surlybikes dot com. We will try and cover all of your questions we've seen on these forums.

    End transmission.

    BoB
    Thanks BoB. You rule.
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  51. #251
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    i agree with apples/oranges comparing to mx bike tires...however they keep talking about the tires being "moto inspired"!! Oh and yes THANKS Bob...will be checking the site...here's hoping that frame will be orderable in that metallic green!!!!

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    I am 6'4" and I know not a single person with longer legs than myself without being inches taller. I have done XC racing up the steepest hills, and have learned to shift my weight the hard way.

    IMO wheels, cranks and chainstays are all neglected height-specific parameters on the bikes. Standardized to one size fits no-one for cost and simplicity. No reason why S and M frames should share the same wheels, someone is drawing the short straw. There should be a wheel size difference of about 2" for a 2" frame height increment. Wheels are just less than your inseam. 2"in the frame is 4" in the body.

    Tall riders will need to man up, and deal with long chainstays. Learrn to loft a front wheel by will, not by merely allowing it to loft.
    good point!..but I guess that short riders could enjoy the benefits of bigger wheels as well..but Im with you about chain stay lengths : longer legs and arms apply more leverage to lift front wheel..I also would think that smaller and lighter riders would be happier if they could choose frames with thinner and more comfortable steel or alu tubes..I remember that past Commencal frames used to have different diameter tubes for small and bigger frames..

  53. #253
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    Until the US realizes significant bike part production capabilities:
    Silver Update 8/10/12 American Delusion - YouTube

    Do realize that the USD is losing value relative to the Chinese Yuan. Things get less cheap, and more expensive. Get used to it. If you are to complain, you are a few decades too late. This process cannot be reversed.
    American cars in Yuan must be getting cheaper quickly. If they can even find some models they'd want to drive.
    Check out the video. I was surprised as well on some little facts on China.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jingleman View Post
    good point!..but I guess that short riders could enjoy the benefits of bigger wheels as well..but Im with you about chain stay lengths : longer legs and arms apply more leverage to lift front wheel..I also would think that smaller and lighter riders would be happier if they could choose frames with thinner and more comfortable steel or alu tubes..I remember that past Commencal frames used to have different diameter tubes for small and bigger frames..
    I think it's not well thought out when big guys, 250 to 300lbs, think they should be riding the same bike that 150lb guys ride and think are suffering greatly if they can't. I'm 200 so I'm basically in the middle but I still build to suit. Light where it can be and stronger where it needs to be.

    And yeah if you are outside of average, maybe < than 5'6" or > than 6'4", smaller or bigger wheel size makes a lot of sense.

    I saw a really tricked out triathlon road bike a few days ago. The entire thing was carbon and it was built around 650 wheels. It was for a guys wife and she was going to be in an Iron Man in a couple of weeks. I bet it fit her perfectly and probably weighed 12 lbs.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    Until the US realizes significant bike part production capabilities:
    Silver Update 8/10/12 American Delusion - YouTube

    Do realize that the USD is losing value relative to the Chinese Yuan. Things get less cheap, and more expensive. Get used to it. If you are to complain, you are a few decades too late. This process cannot be reversed.
    American cars in Yuan must be getting cheaper quickly. If they can even find some models they'd want to drive.
    Check out the video. I was surprised as well on some little facts on China.
    Maybe eventually there will be an upsurge in their buying US goods because of it and things will even out.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  56. #256
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    I had the opportunity to demo a Krampus today and I loved it! No time soon will my bike budget allow for such a niche bike though.
    -rides bikes for fun.

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    Re

    Quote Originally Posted by robtre View Post
    I had the opportunity to demo a Krampus today and I loved it! No time soon will my bike budget allow for such a niche bike though.
    I would like to hear more of your thoughts on how it rides. Big lazy steamroller? Still has some numbleness like a quick handling singletracker? Or just an big fat Huffy?

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtre View Post
    I had the opportunity to demo a Krampus today and I loved it! No time soon will my bike budget allow for such a niche bike though.
    Hmmm. I got to ride a Krampus today at a demo. I just took it on the easy trail. No surprise, it rolled over exposed tree roots and little rocks with far less wrenching than my 26" bike. A couple of us there have framesets on order. One guy rode the large and extra large and changed his pre-order to extra large. I decided to leave mine at large, even though I had no problem riding the extra large.

    The really bad news was that I got to also ride a Salsa Spearfish 2 and loved it. Even with my limited experience, I was faster on the easy trail with it than on the Krampus. The worse news is that it costs around $2800 or so.

    Nice demo at the lake.
    Last edited by DavyRay; 08-12-2012 at 02:15 PM. Reason: specifics

  59. #259
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    Rode the mighty Krampus this weekend! Had a large frame already on order-but found the XL was spot on for me. I already ride 2.4 Mtn Kings on P35 rims-and I do not think the tires will work on these "little" rims-they are big,really big. The ride was just enough more cush than the set I use-enough to convince me to get the whole pakage complete(and the green paint rocks!) As a rigid rider-not racer-whole love rough tecnical trails-this will be a perfect bike. It handles very well on singletrack-good balence. Also likes to go fast in the roots. I took the roughest rooty lines-and also rode my own wheels the same-it was eye opening how much smoother. I didn't go real low on the tire pressure-did'nt want to risk a problem-I could have gone much lower. It rides like a 29er-not a fatbike though-if you get a chance try one. I am stoked-now to wait the mothes away till it comes in. I cant post pics-but there are some on my FB....bz truewheel. I compared a 3.8/3.0.2.2 in one shot-shows alot! Also saw/played with 2013 Salsa's....Mukluk/Spearfish/Horsethief/El Mar.....the line is gonna be in my shop if I can swing it...all are very empressive this year!
    i own a bikeshop in WV thetruewheelwv.com

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikesdad View Post
    It's the bike I've been day dreaming about.<iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://tinyurl.com/27shlk6" vspale=0></iframe>
    <iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://tinyurl.com/yz4gjyd" vspale=0></iframe>
    Its super cool

  61. #261
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    I also got a chance to ride the mighty Krampus last weekend, it is not a 29er and it is not a fat bike, somewhere in the middle, really fun to ride, I am trying to decide if I neeone or not at the moment.

  62. #262
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    I've had my LBS working on lining up an XL for me the past couple of weeks... Fingers crossed but it is looking doubtful that anything gets into Canada but hopefully a few trickle north of the border. I don't want to wait until next year!

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29buzz View Post
    Rode the mighty Krampus this weekend! Had a large frame already on order-but found the XL was spot on for me. I already ride 2.4 Mtn Kings on P35 rims-and I do not think the tires will work on these "little" rims-they are big,really big. The ride was just enough more cush than the set I use-enough to convince me to get the whole pakage complete(and the green paint rocks!) As a rigid rider-not racer-whole love rough tecnical trails-this will be a perfect bike. It handles very well on singletrack-good balence. Also likes to go fast in the roots. I took the roughest rooty lines-and also rode my own wheels the same-it was eye opening how much smoother. I didn't go real low on the tire pressure-did'nt want to risk a problem-I could have gone much lower. It rides like a 29er-not a fatbike though-if you get a chance try one. I am stoked-now to wait the mothes away till it comes in. I cant post pics-but there are some on my FB....bz truewheel. I compared a 3.8/3.0.2.2 in one shot-shows alot! Also saw/played with 2013 Salsa's....Mukluk/Spearfish/Horsethief/El Mar.....the line is gonna be in my shop if I can swing it...all are very empressive this year!
    Hey, Buzz. I'm the guy who rode that XL right after you. I did not change my order. Are your arms longer than mine? I could not decide that the larger frame was better for me.

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  64. #264
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    DavyRay......I went with the XL because I will set mine up much taller in the front-taller stem and a riser bar-I ride my bars high. The LG would have worked,but with a really high stem/riser. In just the parking lot-the XL felt better. I have a 24.9 TT now and a 110mm 17d stem on my current ride. I have tires,rims/frameset ordered-will build up as my only mtb...I really loved the ride.

    Keep on hangin'
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  65. #265
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    I've read that the Krampus has a slack HT angle. Anyone got an idea of what that means to Surly? I'd love to know the HT angle with the stock fork and the fork length.
    Safe riding,

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  66. #266
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    I think it's 70
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    I think it's 70
    That's not slack. 64 is slack. 67-68 is sought after these days by those who have tried it.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    That's not slack. 64 is slack. 67-68 is sought after these days by those who have tried it.
    Are you the guy listing eBay auctions with "Sought After" in the headline?

    I'm just replying to dudes post with what "I think" is the headtube angle of the Surly Krampus...it might be 69, but that's still not "sought after" I guess.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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  69. #269
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    "Wherein We Attempt to Answer Your Krampus Questions": Blog | Surly Bikes

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    That's not slack. 64 is slack. 67-68 is sought after these days by those who have tried it.
    It seems like there would be some sort of trade off when you stray from the norm, otherwise everyone would do it? As someone that has only ridden bikes with typical XC hartdtail geometry, so I am curious to hear from people that have ridden slack tubes what the benefits would be?

    I am currently intrigued by the slack 64.3 degrees of the Generator!

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomz View Post
    It seems like there would be some sort of trade off when you stray from the norm, otherwise everyone would do it? As someone that has only ridden bikes with typical XC hartdtail geometry, so I am curious to hear from people that have ridden slack tubes what the benefits would be?

    I am currently intrigued by the slack 64.3 degrees of the Generator!
    My local riding is rocky rooty BC all mountain terrain. I've got an XC geo 29er hard tail [~71 deg HT angle] and it struggles a bit. So I'm interested in trying something with slacker angles to tame the trails.

    My 26er MTB has a 67 deg HT angle and that rides well here both up and down.
    Safe riding,

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  72. #272
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    Oops....

  73. #273
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    Still trying to make sense of sizing for a possible order. For folks who have ridden the bike: for someone around 6.1, who likes a ETT around 24.6 or so, am I looking at L or XL? I know there are personal preferences etc., but just curious if a big mistake one way or other.

  74. #274
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    Long top tube, short stem, really wide bars. This is EXACTLY how I like my bikes to fit, this thing is gonna be awesome. 44mm head tube is also most welcome as well as I ride slammed and am always trying to lower stack height.

    Stoked!

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo View Post
    Long top tube, short stem, really wide bars. This is EXACTLY how I like my bikes to fit, this thing is gonna be awesome.
    Same here!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    I'm 225, and have ridden 27.2 seatposts on many bikes without problem. Either your form is shiite or your buttcheeks must have superpowers.
    or maybe you ride slow and gentle? Not sure why you think these are the only two possibilities. But what can I say, I'm fast and I ride hard and maybe my cheeks do have power, but I don't think they're super. Riding a hardtail, having a bmx background, being in pretty good shape, taking downhills faster than average, all of these things lead to what is perhaps an above average requirement for seatpost strength.

    MTB's shouldn't be designed to meet just the demands of the average rider, but a reasonably extreme rider. The Krampus is an extreme sort of bike, so if somebody who is in the top 10% for seatpost abuse on an xc bike has problems with the component, i"d say its under-engineered.

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomz View Post
    It seems like there would be some sort of trade off when you stray from the norm, otherwise everyone would do it? As someone that has only ridden bikes with typical XC hartdtail geometry, so I am curious to hear from people that have ridden slack tubes what the benefits would be?

    I am currently intrigued by the slack 64.3 degrees of the Generator!
    I took a quick look and measurement of the generator (a hybrid commuter type bike) on the website you linked, that bike is right around 73° HTA, nowhere near 64°.

    I took a measurement from a sideview photo of Krampus, it is indeed very close to 70° HTA, effective seat tube angle was around 74°.

    Very slack HTA is good for going downhill since you are less likely to endo over the bars on a downhill, slack HTA helps compensate for the fact that the hill is not level ground. Other than that, a slacker HTA makes the bike track stronger and steer slow. Steering feeling get really ugly fast if you dont pair a slack HTA with a fork that has enough rake to keep the trail within reason. Slack HTA will increase the front-center measurement (and wheelbase) so the bike also becomes less nimble just due to the extra length.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    I took a quick look and measurement of the generator (a hybrid commuter type bike) on the website you linked, that bike is right around 73° HTA, nowhere near 64°.

    I took a measurement from a sideview photo of Krampus, it is indeed very close to 70° HTA, effective seat tube angle was around 74°.

    Very slack HTA is good for going downhill since you are less likely to endo over the bars on a downhill, slack HTA helps compensate for the fact that the hill is not level ground. Other than that, a slacker HTA makes the bike track stronger and steer slow. Steering feeling get really ugly fast if you dont pair a slack HTA with a fork that has enough rake to keep the trail within reason. Slack HTA will increase the front-center measurement (and wheelbase) so the bike also becomes less nimble just due to the extra length.
    My mistake, I was talking about the seat tube angle and everyone else was talking head tube angle. I will go back to being a lurker since I have no need for a Krampus anyway... enjoy!

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by chunkylover53 View Post
    Still trying to make sense of sizing for a possible order. For folks who have ridden the bike: for someone around 6.1, who likes a ETT around 24.6 or so, am I looking at L or XL? I know there are personal preferences etc., but just curious if a big mistake one way or other.
    I don't have enough experience to know much about sizing. I did ride a L and an XL. I am about 6'1". I have a Large on order, and decided to leave it at that. I took the large on a trail, and was comfortable on it. I also rode the XL around the parking lot, and did not see any advantage to the larger frame. I could reach everything.

    Buzz, on the other hand, decide to change his order to an XL after his test rides. Have you read the Surly Blog comments on sizing? There is a link to that a few posts back.

  80. #280
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    It will be interesting to see what sort of rack, fender, and bottle cage mounts the final Krampus gets. If it's loaded like the Ogre, I'm in for a frameset. If not, I probably can't justify buying it. I'm sure it isn't really intended to be an all-purpose bike, but I see potential for all terrain touring.

  81. #281
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    The bike is cool, the tire equally if not more so. Looking forward to stuffing into a rigid fork...could also be interesting for DH 29ers with dual crown forks...

  82. #282
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    I got a Large to try for a while, will do some riding in the dirt this afternoon and in the weekend. It is fun how good it rolls on pavement with less then 1 bar tire pressure. We have quite some sandy tracks here, must be great to float through these sections. This is one of the pre production bikes, so final specs may be different (like the double front setup)

    Krampus thing | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    Last edited by JJT; 08-17-2012 at 06:52 AM.
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  83. #283
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    JJT... please update after your extensive ride(s). This bike is on my short list and I really want to hear some real-world feedback. Cheers!

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJT View Post
    I got a Large to try for a while, will do some riding in the dirt this afternoon and in the weekend. It is fun how good it rolls on pavement with less then 1 bar tire pressure. We have quite some sandy tracks here, must be great to float through these sections. This is one of the pre production bikes, so final specs may be different (like the double front setup)

    Krampus thing | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


    I hadn't noticed that the extra holes allowing for offset would also allow for cross-lacing. For these tall wheels and trying to ride like a dh bike, cross-lacing seems like it would be a great choice. Not sure if the angle of the nipple coming off the rim would be an issue, but having the option seems like a good thing.

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post


    I hadn't noticed that the extra holes allowing for offset would also allow for cross-lacing. For these tall wheels and trying to ride like a dh bike, cross-lacing seems like it would be a great choice. Not sure if the angle of the nipple coming off the rim would be an issue, but having the option seems like a good thing.
    with brass maybe it would be ok, would go that route with alloy though
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  86. #286
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    Please Jelle,

    Can I test it within the next week? I am in Leiden, so not too far from you..
    Ridin ridin ridin..... raw ti!

  87. #287
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    Your Rabbit Hole Looks Knardy

    "We've told you most of the pertinent details of the new 29x3.0 Surly Knard tire. It'll be about 820g for the 120tpi folding version and pretty close to that for the 27tpi. It's got blocks and whatnot for a tread pattern and it is 100% the best thing ever in the history of the universe and if you don't buy two you don't know anything about anything and you're a big jerk. It's also a very nice tire.



    So nice that we're going to make it in a 26x3.8" too.





    THE RABBIT HOLE

    It's a 50mm rim built for getting wide with 29ers. It will fit 29" tires down to about 2.4 or 2.5" and - of course - up to the Surly 29x3.0 Knard with which it was tandemly designed. It's got all of the nice features of our fat-bicycling rims - the cutouts for weight savings, the 64 spoke hole pattern for symmetric or asymmetric builds - but it's, you know, bigger in the circumference sort of way. It will weigh about 700grams and will help you be a better person.

    It's a single wall rim, but only mostly. There are actually internal spaces near the sidewall areas that make it a bit of a hybrid between single wall and double. Cut one in half and you'll see.

    This sucka is going to come in traditional light-sucking black or in fancy shiny silver. Oh yes.



    Here are some numbers that might help you decide if Knard or Rabbit Hole are right for you:

    The Knard 3.0 tire on a Rabbit Hole 50mm rim will be 75.8mm/77.7mm (casing/tread) wide and will have a diameter or 779.4mm (at 19psi).

    The Knard 3.0 tire on a Velocity P35 will be 72.6mm/76.7mm wide and have a diameter of 778.6mm.

    A Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.4" tire will be 66.0mm/59.2mm wide and have a diameter of 752.2mm when mounted on a Rabbit Hole rim (at 35psi).

    A Continental Trail King 2.4" tire will be 65.5mm/57.1mm wide and have a diameter of 759.5mm when mounted on a Rabbit Hole rim (at 35psi).

    (The above numbers, as you may guess, will have some plus or minus to them when you mount up your own tires, because that's how the world works Ricky.)



    That's what you get for today. Thanks for hanging with our scribblings this week. Please let us know if you have questions about any of this, ok?



    Thanks,
    Skip"

  88. #288
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    The Krampus fork is supposed to be 120mm corrected. I guess that might be for a regular 29" tire, as visually there is little distance between the tire and the head tube. It's a tall tire, taller than I though from from pictures. 30.685" across of which 2x72.2mm rubber supposing a 635mm rim. It's A LOT of tire. It needs almost 15mm more clearance for the same amunt of travel, and then you need to select a fork to swallow the 3.06" true width...

  89. #289
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    Are the dropouts just the regular slotted dropouts like on the Karate Monkey and other Surly frames without any adjustment screws or anything? I'm just wondering what the insert is that I see in this picture:

  90. #290
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    Monkey Nuts | Parts | Surly Bikes

    Spacers for running a RD.

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    I'm 225, and have ridden 27.2 seatposts on many bikes without problem. Either your form is shiite or your buttcheeks must have superpowers.
    You should also consider how far the seatpost is extended.

    A long extended seatpost creates more leverage for something to break.

    I'm only about 155, but with long legs. I've broken one seat post and cracked one frame near the top of the seat tube.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    Monkey Nuts | Parts | Surly Bikes

    Spacers for running a RD.
    Wrong. You need it to move the rear wheel back if you want to use a *front* derailleur. Otherwise you can change the effective chainstay length for having a more manoeuvrable bike or not.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    Wrong. You need it to move the rear wheel back if you want to use a *front* derailleur. Otherwise you can change the effective chainstay length for having a more manoeuvrable bike or not.
    Is this because the front derailleur cage hits the tire itself when slammed forward? Maybe a road double derailleur with its shorter cage would work well?

  94. #294
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    dang, I botched that. I do wonder why they spec the Monkey Nuts if the stock complete bike is a 1x10?

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    dang, I botched that. I do wonder why they spec the Monkey Nuts if the stock complete bike is a 1x10?
    Well, I assume to leave options open in case you want to run a normal tire and shorten the wheelbase or something, I dunno.

  96. #296
    get down!
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    How did you get one already dude?!
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    dang, I botched that. I do wonder why they spec the Monkey Nuts if the stock complete bike is a 1x10?
    Some of the prototype Krampus rigs I've seen had a front derailleur so they are not setup in stock form.

    Has Surly released a full complete Krampus spec parts list yet?
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  98. #298
    JJT
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    Well, I had some really nice rides with the Krampus. I do not own a fatbike, I tried some in sandy conditions so I know what it feels like. The area where we live here in the Netherlands has sandy/hardpack tracks with quite some roots we do not have hills or mountains, but we have shorter and longer, steeper and less steep climbs, enough variation to make an off road ride lots of fun.

    I started my ride with a little more as 1 bar (on my old worn SKS rennkompressor, not sure how accurate that is..) and immediately felt the traction this rim tire combo has, amazing how fast I could corner. Take the difference in traction between 26 and 29 inch, double it and add it to the traction you have on a normal 29-er. That should gives an impression! Climbing on loose sandy climbs was lots of fun, sit down on the point of the saddle and keep on pedaling. It only got better when lowering the pressure some more. This made the tire a little squizzie, but I never felt the rim hitting a root. Tires float over small thing on the trail, more or less like the fatbikes do.

    The bike is 15kg (or 30lbs??), riding the flats is no problem, climbing is also no problem but off course you feel the difference if you are used to a less heavy bike. The bike really shines when you get the change to play, singletrack, jumps, drops, fallen trees, this bike begs to be played with. The wide bars give lots of control, although I would use some other bars on the bike if it was my own.. I am a bigger rider and for me the weight was not an issue. Bunny hopping was no problem, the float of the tires was great on sandy spots in fast downhills, I really had a good time with the bike.

    This is a pre production model, and a SRAM double crank was used. The derailler had some minor rub against the tire when using the small chainring, and the chain was rubbing the tire in the smallest gear. Production models should have 1 x 10, and with a MWOD crank the problem should be solved.












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  99. #299
    the air is thin up here..
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    Guh.

    Just when I thought I had finally finished/paid off "the last bike I'll ever buy".
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  100. #300
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    Two questions (not sure if these have been answered already):

    1) Is surly going to be fully prepared to meet the demand for rims and tires (beyond complete bikes)?

    2) How much lighter will a Knard wheel be than a comparable 50mm 26" rim and Larry tired wheel?

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