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Thread: Surly Krampus

  1. #101
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    Would a Cannondale Lefty 29er fork work on it?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    Would a Cannondale Lefty 29er fork work on it?
    There are Lefty conversion kits for the Pugsley etc so I imagine it would, one way or another

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom View Post
    Bike looks fantastic. Just wondering what frame, fork and wheelset will weigh...
    Also,how much and availability?
    I would venture to say that if weight was a real concern, this is probably not the bike for you.


    That said, this looks awesome.




    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    There are Lefty conversion kits for the Pugsley etc so I imagine it would, one way or another

    Yeah, it should. P321 or Mendon Cycle is selling/making some Pugs Fatbike Lefty clamps for Lefty Max (clamped on, not bonded steerer clamps) forks. IIRC, Mendon (not affiliated, other than receiving awesome service from him) has some Lefty Max 140 alu forks with PBR dampers at a good price to go in those clamps. You just have to build the correct offset on the front wheel, and limit the travel of the Lefty Max fork so the tire doesn't hit the crown.

    The forks are normally 140mm of travel, minus whatever it takes to clear the tire. For a regular 29er tire, the safe reduction is 30mm, leaving 110mm of travel.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 07-24-2012 at 09:49 PM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshKa View Post
    Me too, just because !

    Will (does) it fit a KM front fork ? Please Surly say yes !!
    KM fork is about 90 mm wide and a Knard tire has 3" = 75 mm. Height should be about 15 mm more an the KM fork has about 50 mm room. So it will fit without problems So I will build a Knard/Rabbithole frontwheel for my KM as soon as the parts are availiable
    Last edited by DerBergschreck; 07-25-2012 at 12:40 AM.

  5. #105
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    You wish your bike was this fun.

    I had a huge.....er....smile......the entire time i rode it.

  6. #106
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    Hurry knard!

    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    KM fork is about 90 mm wide and a Knard tire has 3" = 75 mm. Height should be about 15 mm more an the KM fork has about 50 mm room. So it will fit without problems So I will build a Knard/Rabbithole frontwheel for my KM as soon as the parts are availiable
    Me too!

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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I would venture to say that if weight was a real concern, this is probably not the bike for you.


    That said, this looks awesome.

    Yeah, it should. P321 or Mendon Cycle is selling/making some Pugs Fatbike Lefty clamps for Lefty Max (clamped on, not bonded steerer clamps) forks. IIRC, Mendon (not affiliated, other than receiving awesome service from him) has some Lefty Max 140 alu forks with PBR dampers at a good price to go in those clamps. You just have to build the correct offset on the front wheel, and limit the travel of the Lefty Max fork so the tire doesn't hit the crown.

    The forks are normally 140mm of travel, minus whatever it takes to clear the tire. For a regular 29er tire, the safe reduction is 30mm, leaving 110mm of travel.
    IIRC Mendon once said he could fit gazzis easily with the stock clamps.
    Still need ot reduce travle but other than that... maybe Mendon will drop by and confirm!
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  8. #108
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    I'm just curious as to whether or not it would be worthwhile to try to fit a Knard on the stock Alex Adventurer rim of the Ogre... if it did fit, i wonder if it would be too narrow a rim to even take advantage of the tire.

  9. #109
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    As well they should considering both Surly and Salsa are owned by the same company.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    One of those has never been within a country mile of my shop nor my bikes, so I have no clear idea.

    But I'd guess yes. Especially going forward--we all know Salsa will hop onto Surly's bandwagon and capitalize any way they can.

  10. #110
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    This news just in:

    from Surly HQ, the OD of the Knard is 30.4", about the same as a BFL, and will fit in a Pugs.

    That 30.4" is basically measured from the ground to the top of the tire, so those who wonder if it'll fit your existing bike just need to measure up from the ground to see if your bike has the clearance.

    Sorry if this has already been covered in this thread

    Pat

  11. #111
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    I asked this on Milltowns FB page but I wonder what this wheel/tire could do for the fat front crowd like my self. I would even love this rim with my studded rear tire to see what it could do.
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  12. #112
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    Really interested to hear the price on these tyres and rims, hoping that it's more reasonable than what Fatbike stuff costs, i.e. aroundabouts your avg decent rim like a Stans around $70-80 and hopefully less than $70 for the tyre.

    I've received some stupid, negative NEG rep and comments before (normally not signed by the loser), but this one for my reply to the thread below just absolutely amazes me - guess someone doesn't like me Normally a good sign you're being honest and forthtright

    Quote Originally Posted by Loser
    Don't think they ship these to the third world. Not to peckerheads like you, at any rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Most definitely sign me up for at least one of these Knard tyres when they're available, most definitely want one to put on the front of the KM with 2.55" WW LT outback
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    As well they should considering both Surly and Salsa are owned by the same company.

  14. #114
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    Yes, really Quality Bicycle Products

    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Surly bikes I have owned, 1x1- check, KM-check, Pacer check, Cross Check x3-check check check. Krampus- coming soon!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I was being sarcastic, I've my share of Surly and Salsa stuff. Although it just occurred to me that maybe the Surly/Salsa/QBP thing isn't common knowledge. But it certainly is known by Mikesee

  17. #117
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    Side note, it is interesting to see the coming together of Fatbikers and 29er heads in this thread ...not that the two are mutually exclusive, but still

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Really interested to hear the price on these tyres and rims, hoping that it's more reasonable than what Fatbike stuff costs, i.e. aroundabouts your avg decent rim like a Stans around $70-80 and hopefully less than $70 for the tyre.

    I've received some stupid, negative NEG rep and comments before (normally not signed by the loser), but this one for my reply to the thread below just absolutely amazes me - guess someone doesn't like me Normally a good sign you're being honest and forthtright
    well.. anyone who judges other people by what they can afford should be dealt w/ harshly.

  19. #119
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    Considering that everyone is all amazeballs that they had the mold to make this tire, I'm guessing it's going to be closer to fatbike tire than normal tire. I'm figuring $100 USD and if it falls within $20 higher or lower, so be it

  20. #120
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    Fatbikes are...

    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Side note, it is interesting to see the coming together of Fatbikers and 29er heads in this thread ...not that the two are mutually exclusive, but still
    ...29ers as far as tire OD is concerned! Here's an experiment I'm trying with my Pugsly; "Half-fat Doggie-style":
    <a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b426/pliebenberg/Bikes%20and%20Bike%20Hardware/Half%20Fat/?action=view&amp;current=P6110006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b426/pliebenberg/Bikes%20and%20Bike%20Hardware/Half%20Fat/P6110006.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
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  21. #121
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    This is the revenge of 29ers...
    ...silencing the 650B shouting...

    Pee in who's Koolaid?... LOL

    Go Krampus, go TwoNynePlus

    Gotta find even "BIGGER" Rocks to crush now!

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Considering that everyone is all amazeballs that they had the mold to make this tire, I'm guessing it's going to be closer to fatbike tire than normal tire. I'm figuring $100 USD and if it falls within $20 higher or lower, so be it
    The low volume will drive the price high. A cheap fatbike tire is $90 and a bling one is $150. If they offer the Gnard in 27tpi and 120tpi versions they probably be priced along the same lines.
    Safe riding,

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  23. #123
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    I'm not a mind reader nor do I play one on TV. It just seemed like kind of sharp edged anti-Salsa comment to me about how they jump on whatever bandwagon Surly develops. I think they're both great companies that happen to share a common owner. Maybe Salsa doesn't give Mike new free stuff to test like Surly does or something and it makes him sad? I don't know exactly the genesis of the Salsa slap.

    Originally Posted by mikesee
    One of those has never been within a country mile of my shop nor my bikes, so I have no clear idea.

    But I'd guess yes. Especially going forward--we all know Salsa will hop onto Surly's bandwagon and capitalize any way they can.
    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I was being sarcastic, I've my share of Surly and Salsa stuff. Although it just occurred to me that maybe the Surly/Salsa/QBP thing isn't common knowledge. But it certainly is known by Mikesee

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    I'm not a mind reader nor do I play one on TV.
    So why are you playing one on MTBR?

    Did Salsa pay you to post that?...
    Safe riding,

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  25. #125
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    Whole heartily agree and never do, I'll ride with anyone, riding on anything as long as it's safe. Not quite sure which way your comment was meant to go though.

    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    well.. anyone who judges other people by what they can afford should be dealt w/ harshly.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  26. #126
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    as far as the tire goes, I think one of the things i like most is the tread pattern. small, square knobs. they said "moto inspired." I think there is a reason every dirt bike tire there is has basically the same square knob pattern. because you don't need ridiculous knob shapes!!!!! they should make all sizes of this tire and people would buy them. perhaps even buy lots of them. simple, simple, simple!

  27. #127
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    So, with promises of mounting a 29er plus front wheel/tire are we rehashing the 69/96/55 concept on a bigger level?

    Can I be the first to say 30.4/29 = 39er, or 30.49er, or 59.4er, or 29erplus/29er, or can we have "E" added to the mix in millimeters? 698E Will Carver make a Killer E?

    Just ride the damn bike... LOL?

    Krampus, Krampus oh so Fine...
    ...your Big Tires are just Divine

  28. #128
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    Yes they did. I'm one of their (formerly secret) agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    So why are you playing one on MTBR?

    Did Salsa pay you to post that?...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA View Post
    So, with promises of mounting a 29er plus front wheel/tire are we rehashing the 69/96/55 concept on a bigger level?

    Can I be the first to say 30.4/29 = 39er, or 30.49er, or 59.4er, or 29erplus/29er, or can we have "E" added to the mix in millimeters? 698E Will Carver make a Killer E?

    Just ride the damn bike... LOL?

    Krampus, Krampus oh so Fine...
    ...your Big Tires are just Divine
    Well, opionion make bikes interesting. We like to personalize.
    I may an odd one wearing logo-less t-shirts in daily life, but most people like to be a billboard of their preference, or let thir bike extend their chosen identity.

    I am extremely grateful Surly made 29x3.0 happen. It looks to have been worth the wait double over. They don't do things half-azzed.
    698mm must happen also. Krampus likely is not the ideal framee for it though, as they seem to keep an eye on also fitting regular 29" tires. This means they'll need to use limited BB drop. With 29+ the BB is likely high-ish, as many playful bikes are. I would not be surprised if they used 68mm BB drop as works so well in regular sized for the KM. Sticking full-on 32"/698 wheels in that, will make it a bit toppy. Well, a lot. The skinny slick 698 tires would still be a fun addition for those in a one-bike marriage or dorm room, but such wheels would totally be wroth dedicated plus sized versions of Pacers, Cross-Checks and Karate Monkeys. I happen to own all in 622, BTW. I promise you, it will be as cool as 29+, just in its own way. 29+ is the not-skinny-anymore approach, 32" would be the tall people's fitted wheels, or medium folks' cool rollers. 36" is already out there, Waltworks has a decent knobby tire on the way, and even that clumsy size has a market. Unicyclists love it, oversized riders yearn for it. Undersized riders, just ride stairases up with sub-par quality heavy-azz tires. 36" when taken to commercial quality parts and a nice selection, will push some older bikes out of a stable for sure. Why commute (sub-urban and rural) the 700c skinny bike when the 36" performance bike is on stand-by? The float on those should be similar to 29+, just require gentler terrain and more speed to really shine I suppose.

    Isn't it great that we have sizes to pick from now? In MTB's at least. 650B is just superfluous, the difference with 26" is so small that it will simply not happen that it's closer to a sweet spot than 29". The sweet spot for many riders will be above 29. 29+ is a gentle way to mentally prepare for what will come. As is 36". It's out there, and it works. For the right rider (friggin' tall) it's already better than any alternative.
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  30. #130
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    Mukluk half fat 29er

    I've been running a Mukluk half fat front, 29er rear. I can run 29er front as well. The Kanard might be be a tight fit in the rear. This set up is much faster for dirt. I have not tried the rear fat, 29er front set up. Maybe with the Kanard?
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  31. #131
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    You think the Knard kanardly fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulmaag View Post
    I've been running a Mukluk half fat front, 29er rear. I can run 29er front as well. The Kanard might be be a tight fit in the rear. This set up is much faster for dirt. I have not tried the rear fat, 29er front set up. Maybe with the Kanard?

  32. #132
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    Sooo Close!!! Singlespeed ability desired (without tensioner)!

    Singlespeed option would have Sold Me!!!
    Horizontal Dropouts or EBB, or both…
    Bummer… Sooo Close!!!

    Maybe I will seek out a Fat Tire 36er+...

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1StuntMonkey View Post
    Singlespeed option would have Sold Me!!!
    Horizontal Dropouts or EBB, or both…
    Bummer… Sooo Close!!!

    Maybe I will seek out a Fat Tire 36er+...
    I see horizontal dropouts.

    Surly Krampus | Sweetbike (.org)
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex413 View Post
    I was going to build a KM this winter, but this might take its place.
    yeah.....me too! hard to wait for interbike or whenever we will get full numbers on the frame geo. i hope the chainstays aren't super long. but they probably are to fit that beefcake tire.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Train View Post
    yeah.....me too! hard to wait for interbike or whenever we will get full numbers on the frame geo. i hope the chainstays aren't super long. but they probably are to fit that beefcake tire.
    Try the pic pix counting method, some of the pics are pretty good for this.

    But first, have you ridden a rigid bike with (really) long stays? I found it to rail the corners. Just placed the rear wheel in the most aft position on a Monocog29. the difference to wheelieing was there, but it's not just downsides. Not at all. Comfort, climbing stability, downhill quietness, it's quite profound how that changes with long stays. Be open to it.

    Riders between 5' and 6'8', for a given frame model, all share one thing: chain stay length. Do the math on that. It's one of those things like crank length. You should try the size that fits you, and try and get used to it :-)
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    Try the pic pix counting method, some of the pics are pretty good for this.

    But first, have you ridden a rigid bike with (really) long stays? I found it to rail the corners. Just placed the rear wheel in the most aft position on a Monocog29. the difference to wheelieing was there, but it's not just downsides. Not at all. Comfort, climbing stability, downhill quietness, it's quite profound how that changes with long stays. Be open to it.

    Riders between 5' and 6'8', for a given frame model, all share one thing: chain stay length. Do the math on that. It's one of those things like crank length. You should try the size that fits you, and try and get used to it :-)
    you make a good point. I switched to a 29er, which also had longer stays than my older bike and I immediately noticed that my rear wheel would spin out easily; I compensated by keeping my weight further back, and my climbing is overall just as good.

    The question of getting the correct cs length for your body is one that doesn't seem to have a clear answer. The various factors that affect center of gravity and how mobile your center of gravity is do not clearly depend in any straightforward way on how tall you are. I would guess that a taller ride can move their center of gravity fore and aft more than a shorter rider, all else equal, which would suggest that finding your optimal cs length matters more for shorter riders than taller riders, but not that shorter riders need a shorter or longer cs than a similar taller rider.

    To me it seems that with such a large number of variables one's only option is to make an informed guess based one prior experience and expert advice. If you're really short, you may want to pay more attention.

    Regardless, at 5'8" I'm not worried at all about being able to change my riding style to make a Krampus work for me.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    you make a good point. I switched to a 29er, which also had longer stays than my older bike and I immediately noticed that my rear wheel would spin out easily; I compensated by keeping my weight further back, and my climbing is overall just as good.

    The question of getting the correct cs length for your body is one that doesn't seem to have a clear answer. The various factors that affect center of gravity and how mobile your center of gravity is do not clearly depend in any straightforward way on how tall you are. I would guess that a taller ride can move their center of gravity fore and aft more than a shorter rider, all else equal, which would suggest that finding your optimal cs length matters more for shorter riders than taller riders, but not that shorter riders need a shorter or longer cs than a similar taller rider.

    To me it seems that with such a large number of variables one's only option is to make an informed guess based one prior experience and expert advice. If you're really short, you may want to pay more attention.

    Regardless, at 5'8" I'm not worried at all about being able to change my riding style to make a Krampus work for me.
    I am 6'4" and I know not a single person with longer legs than myself without being inches taller. I have done XC racing up the steepest hills, and have learned to shift my weight the hard way.

    IMO wheels, cranks and chainstays are all neglected height-specific parameters on the bikes. Standardized to one size fits no-one for cost and simplicity. No reason why S and M frames should share the same wheels, someone is drawing the short straw. There should be a wheel size difference of about 2" for a 2" frame height increment. Wheels are just less than your inseam. 2"in the frame is 4" in the body.

    Tall riders will need to man up, and deal with long chainstays. Learrn to loft a front wheel by will, not by merely allowing it to loft.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  38. #138
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    Mr. Jones, meet Mr. Knard and Mr. Rabbit Hole. Gentlemen, we'll be spending a lot of time together
    I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
    650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by james-o View Post
    I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
    650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.
    Good points. And I have also been thinking about 650b. Tire and rims will no doubt be coming in those sizes seeing as how 650 seems to be the way the big hit bikes are going to go. For me, depends on the wait. I would build my Rabbit hole/knard wheel this winter. Jeff runs/has run 50mm 29er rims on the front and back of his bike with Ardents. He's very fond of the 72mm fat front with the BFL & 50 mm/Ardent rear. I couldn't anticipate the changes that would come with handling using the Knard/Rabbit Hole, but the thought of slacking the front of Jeff's bike a bit is kind of appealing. In fact, I'm going to run my headset spacers under the head tube with the truss as jeff mentions on his blog. Supposed to slack the bike just a bit.

    Oh, and with the Rabbit Hole/Knard I could lose at least 400 grams of rotational weight over my current fat front set-up.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by james-o View Post
    I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
    650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.


    The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL. Jeff runs a BFL on the front of the Jones so a Krampus-esque wheel/tire there shouldn't change anything.

    Will a Rabbit Hole fit on the back of a Jones?

    My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.
    Safe riding,

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  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL. Jeff runs a BFL on the front of the Jones so a Krampus-esque wheel/tire there shouldn't change anything.

    Will a Rabbit Hole fit on the back of a Jones?

    My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.
    A 47mm Kris Holm rim with a 2.55 WTB Dissent rubs on the rear of my Ti Jones. The same tire on a P35 on the rear of my steel Jones does not rub.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL.
    Oh crap... I was under the impression I could put a Rabbit Hole and Knard on the front of my Ogre but if this is true, I dunno then?

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Oh crap... I was under the impression I could put a Rabbit Hole and Knard on the front of my Ogre but if this is true, I dunno then?
    The Krampus wheel is tall, but not wide like a 5" tire. Surly has said the Rabbit Hole will work on the front of a Karate Monkey which means an Ogre is good to go...
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    A 47mm Kris Holm rim with a 2.55 WTB Dissent rubs on the rear of my Ti Jones. The same tire on a P35 on the rear of my steel Jones does not rub.
    Hmm. That doesn't bode well for the Rabbit Hole. I know Jeff and Aquaholic have been using 50mm rims on the Jones out back. Maybe they have the eccentric bottom bracket in a different position?

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Maybe they have the eccentric bottom bracket in a different position?
    or smaller tires.
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  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Hmm. That doesn't bode well for the Rabbit Hole. I know Jeff and Aquaholic have been using 50mm rims on the Jones out back. Maybe they have the eccentric bottom bracket in a different position?
    How does moving the bb affect the rear axle location?



  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    or smaller tires.
    Yes, smaller tires. 2.35 tires on the 47mm Kris Holm fit fine.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.
    With those large tires there has got to be some sag involved too. IOW with rider mounted the tire must flatten out a bit and lower the bike a bit because the pressure is so low. I don't know personally though, I haven't had an opportunity to ride one.

  49. #149
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    There aren't many 'stock' 29" frames that the RH/Knard are gonna fit into.

    Not without some serious muffin top action anyway.

    I had to run a 2.4 Ardent out back on an amphibious tour of Canyonlands this spring. No match for the Knard--none. 50mm rims pictured.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SNq_d97ImuGnqVby-y1N-RltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2niNYvNdgx0/UBQjFfjiIoI/AAAAAAAAg0k/3qEUjE0nuUI/s800/IMG_7181.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hEoKYZbQmtitCwHCuoMk8xltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iJIoFbJJFLw/UBQjHCOTlbI/AAAAAAAAg00/3FFlptex-MY/s800/IMG_7197.jpg" height="800" width="535" /></a>

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UipO6BpyecIhHgnQ08hZhRltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0GYACHltY4c/UBQjGIG_CsI/AAAAAAAAg0s/4-WjZwbW7EY/s800/IMG_7193.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    There were enough hard surfaces on this route that full fat made no sense--too heavy, too slow, too big of a magnet for goatheads. And enough soft surfaces that 'normal' 29" didn't make much sense either. The Krampus platform ticked all the right boxes, but since the frame/fork weren't available yet I did the next best thing.

    The combined speed and float are indeed the answer to the question that I've been asking the last few years. Now that this platform exists I've begun plotting other, similar, but better tours to places I'd not have wanted to go before.

    Gonna be a good fall. And winter. And spring...

    I heart Surly.

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    In fact, I'm going to run my headset spacers under the head tube with the truss as jeff mentions on his blog. Supposed to slack the bike just a bit
    No Jones-tech hijack intended here, but I have mine with a couple of spacers under the lower cup, feels good but only tweaks it ~1/4 degree, it's subtle but I doubt I'd really notice much now if I changed it back. A full degree I do start to feel though.

    Vik, that BFL looks quite close to a big 29x2.4" OD based on fork clearance in the pic, there's less in it than I thought. Headset spacers / cup depths can balance things a bit and minor differences you get used to. The bigger tyre volume willl be more noticable and fun.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    How does moving the bb affect the rear axle location?

    Yeah. That was a dumb thought on my part.

    Edit: Well, it wasn't really a thought at all. I think that was the mistake.

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    By the way, JNCarpenter, I covet your bike. Probably the most flexible bike I've seen. Full fat, 29er, fat front, now the Rabbit Hole/Knard. I guess the Pugs is the closest production bike to being able to do all these things. I wonder how your bike would do with 650b?

    If I were a bike producer, I would be striving to create a bike that has the flexibility to do all these wheel sizes well. Surly really is opening doors for others.

  53. #153
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    Good job! Surly Krampus in Japan

    Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.

    Very much not stock-standard, not production versions.

    They made my Karate Monkey with 47mm Kris Holm rims + 2.3 tyres look like a puny wee road bike.

    More pics here: Surly Japan Tour in Sapporo (2012) - a set on Flickr











    Last edited by jollynut; 07-31-2012 at 06:52 AM.
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  54. #154
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    So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.

    I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide.

    Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?

  55. #155
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    Thor explained to me today that they are both single wall and double wall. That is, they are double on the sides, and single in the middle.
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  56. #156
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    Clueless question: what headset system is used? Are the top and bottom bearing cups pressfit into the frame or is part of this system of the dropin integrated type? Thanks

  57. #157
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    One of the coolest things about Surly is that they use words in their advertisements/marketing that are not allowed to be posted here on this forum.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollynut View Post
    Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.

    Very much not stock-standard, not production versions.

    They made my Karate Monkey with 47mm Kris Holm rims + 2.3 tyres look like a puny wee road bike.

    More pics here: Surly Japan Tour in Sapporo (2012) - a set on Flickr

    Thanks for the pics....
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There aren't many 'stock' 29" frames that the RH/Knard are gonna fit into.

    Not without some serious muffin top action anyway.

    I had to run a 2.4 Ardent out back on an amphibious tour of Canyonlands this spring. No match for the Knard--none. 50mm rims pictured.

    There were enough hard surfaces on this route that full fat made no sense--too heavy, too slow, too big of a magnet for goatheads. And enough soft surfaces that 'normal' 29" didn't make much sense either. The Krampus platform ticked all the right boxes, but since the frame/fork weren't available yet I did the next best thing.

    The combined speed and float are indeed the answer to the question that I've been asking the last few years. Now that this platform exists I've begun plotting other, similar, but better tours to places I'd not have wanted to go before.

    Gonna be a good fall. And winter. And spring...

    I heart Surly.

    MC
    This is what I was hoping to see. I am already thinking along these lines for some bikepacking trips.
    Thanks for the input, Mike.

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  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollynut View Post

    Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?

  61. #161
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    awww man that super metal flakey paint would have been awesome, maybe not in that xmas green but still. probably more $$$ though to paint, i suppose it may have been axed to keep the cost down

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?
    The metallic/flecked green paint-job version was there yesterday also; I was told that that will be the production color. That metallic green is really nice in sunlight; photos do not do it justice. Photos of the metallic green always seem to show the color up much darker than it really is. The light-mint-green shown here is just a one-off job. I didn't ask about any other colors. But if previous bikes are any indication, I extremely highly doubt there will be color choices available
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  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    awww man that super metal flakey paint would have been awesome, maybe not in that xmas green but still. probably more $$$ though to paint, i suppose it may have been axed to keep the cost down
    See the reply below...this is a one-off color. The metallic green is still the planned production color.
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    too lazy to read the whole thread (tl;dr) but is the front wheel a good spacing or the old 100mm standard? I would be highly disappointed if it wasn't a 135mm spacing. Hard to tell from the pictures.

    edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.
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  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    too lazy to read the whole thread (tl;dr) but is the front wheel a good spacing or the old 100mm standard? I would be highly disappointed if it wasn't a 135mm spacing. Hard to tell from the pictures.

    edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.
    No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.
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  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.
    I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.
    Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.
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  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.
    OD is 30.4" Surly says their 3" 29er rubber has the same outer diameter as a Big Fat Larry and that it will work in a Pugs on their 50mm rim.

    It will also work in a Surly Ogre fork.
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  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.
    Everything I've read says that this was the precise design challenge that Surly posed for themselves.

    I know this is a probably a dumb question to most of you, but their other self-imposed challenge was to use a "no-offset fork." What does that mean, exactly? What's the value of drastically increasing trail figures? Not trying to be coy - I really just don't know.

    Or, by "offset," are they talking about side-to-side shifts and wider front hubs, like the Pugsly uses?
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  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Or, by "offset," are they talking about side-to-side shifts and wider front hubs, like the Pugsly uses?
    Offset to the side as in the Pugs to get driveline clearance in the rear. There isn't any need for an offset fork unless you want the wheels to be swappable front to rear like the Pugs.
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  71. #171
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    The Moonlander fork is non-offset 135mm and it should work. I have one on my Pugs with a BFL on a Rolling Daryl rim so the Knard/Rabbit Hole combo should fit fine. I switch it out and run it on my Niner MCR occasionally for the fat front setup and it works there too.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.

    I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide.

    Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?
    Granted single wall are not as strong as double wall and if they made them really thin and also drilled/cut double wall they might get the weight down some. But weight is an issue when rims get wide and with more tire to protect the rim you can get away with more. I have some 29er Kris Holm FR 47mm rims on as set of wheels and they are 895g each for those rims. That rim plus a heavy tire make for some heavy ass wheels.
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  73. #173
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    [QUOTE=jollynut;9549538]Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.



    thank you very much
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  74. #174
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    Would a "Lefty" Krampus be possible?

    Thanx, Dave.

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.
    Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.
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  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.
    Less trail doesn't give you slower steering. The lighter tire/rim should also steer more easily than a fat front. I'd expect a more lively ride.
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  77. #177
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    At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.
    My thoughts exactly.

  79. #179
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    Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?
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  80. #180
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    Opps. Double.
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  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?
    I talked to them at Surly and they said don't build anything around the current size. Wait until it goes into production at the end of the year. Guess they are still testing.

    But I would still like to hear the actual measurements both full width and OA Diameter. My 3.8 and 4" tires are actually only 3 1/4" wide on 47mm rims.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.
    That frequently happens with Surly bikes. I'm about to buy my fourth and most of them were like that

  83. #183
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    Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    t Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus?
    I can't see any reason not to buy a Krampus frame or complete if you are buying a new bike. What's the point of buying a KM when it's never going to be able to run 29 x 3" tires?

    You'll probably regret that decision very quickly.

    If you buy a Krampus frame and decide to run narrower 29er wheels and rubber it's no problem.
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  85. #185
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    that's what I want to consider. would the bb be too low on the krampus with regular 29" wheels, though?

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    that's what I want to consider. would the bb be too low on the krampus with regular 29" wheels, though?
    I can't say until they publish the frame specs.

    But let me say this a lot of fat bikers talk about using skinny 29er wheels/tires when they are buying their fat bikes. Very few actually bother because they like the way fat rubber works.

    Your BB will be a bit lower with normal 29er rubber, but that's secondary in my mind to getting access to 3" 29er tires. You may never want to use smaller rubber.
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  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I talked to them at Surly and they said don't build anything around the current size. Wait until it goes into production at the end of the year. Guess they are still testing.

    But I would still like to hear the actual measurements both full width and OA Diameter. My 3.8 and 4" tires are actually only 3 1/4" wide on 47mm rims.
    modifier- Gotcha, after more measuring tonight, it really doesn't matter. I'd have to buy a second frame anyway.
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  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a ss View Post
    looking for opinions, guys...i'm most likely going to purchase either the krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient i get and if/when i sell my stumpjumper). I read (on here i think) that the rabbit hole/knard will fit on the front of the karate monkey and a rabbit hole with a 29x2.5 tire (i think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a km vs a krampus and just making it like a krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since i'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a stumpjumper? Lol



    n + 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?
    I'm thinking if Surly wanted that info out there they'd have put it there themselves.

    So, for now, sorry--nope.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol
    My KM rubs in the rear with the wheel slammed foward in the slots. This is running a velocity p35 and racing ralph 2.4. I don't think the rabbit rim with a 2.5 will fit even pushed backwards.
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  91. #191
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    A Krampus with skinny rear tire, or 2 skinnies for that matter, will ride differently from a KM with 29+ front or 2 skinnies. Apparently Krampus will get a (very?) slacked out front end, whereas KM is actually one of the steeper ones still on the market.
    I just want to know Krampus' fork specs. Especially the rake (offset has proven too confusing a word in fat bike-context). Sortof hoping there will be significantly more rake than on the KM (43mm), but not counting on it.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  92. #192
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    Regarding a KM with a 2.5" tire on a Rabbit Hole, right now I'm running 2.3" Big Apples on Alex Adventurer (not so wide) rims on an Ogre (same as KM), and using Monkey Nuts it just *barely* clears the front derailleur. I'm not sure about side clearance, though

  93. #193
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    "thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.

  94. #194
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    Would the knard work on a standard, wider mtb rim? like for instance, the salsa ride and smile at 29mm? just a thought.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkrosbakken View Post
    Would the knard work on a standard, wider mtb rim? like for instance, the salsa ride and smile at 29mm? just a thought.
    You can mount it to a narrow 29er rim. Whether you like how it rides is another matter.

    I just swapped some 2.4" MTB tires from a standard rim to a Velocity P35. The wide tire on a wider rim is a noticeable improvement - particularly in steering accuracy. The wide tire of the narrower rim isn't as well supported and flexes more giving a vague feeling to the bike.

    The 2.4" tires on the narrower rims are totally useable, but they are much better on a wider rim.
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    Ya that's what I was afraid of. I'll still give it a try.

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    "thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.
    Yup, I now run mine mid way in the drops with no issue. I should clarify, I only had rub when cranking uphill super hard with the bike set up single speed.
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  98. #198
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    Decisions, decisions lol

  99. #199
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    Thin this one will be my new commuter/fun bike.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  100. #200
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    Just got a call from Surly/QBP last night (I'd just closed, glad I took the call!)

    Apparently they are prebooking these, and not surprisingly, expect the first somewhat limited run, to sell out fast.

    Frame sets will be black, completes will be Moonlit Swamp (assuming that's the cool bass boat green we're seeing).

    Tires will be in 27 and 120 TPI.

    Tires will be sold with frames, no tires only for the first run, and no extra tires, two tires, one frame, you go now....

    Just tossing out info that I now have, didn't know if all that was already on the table.

    I did a preorder, and I would suggest anyone who wants them, to chat ASAP with their local Surly slinger about calling QBP first thing in the AM. Prebooking will commence Monday AM, and likely won't last till Tuesday.

    Go get 'em tiger(s).
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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