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  1. #1
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    Going back to a hardtail maybe?

    Current setup is a SC 5010 that I outfitted with 2.8 maxxis rekons. I really like the 27.5 plus tire set up and thinking I need to go back to a true 27.5 plus hardtail. I live in NC so mostly rocky rooty single track no extreme drops maybe 2-3 feet. The 5010 is a 2015 and I have been told that the newer version have a longer top tube. I always felt like I needed to scoot back on the seat while riding but did not have enough room to do so. I have been looking very hard at the guerilla gravity pedalhead thinking this might be my one do it all bike. Also considering the Felt surplus, Spot Rocker, SC chameleon and the specialized fuse fatty expert.

    Am I crazy thinking about going from full suspension to a 27.5 plus HT? The Pedalhead is getting some great review but I would have to buy without ever sitting on it. Closest dealer is 4.5 hrs away. I also like the fact frame is made in USA and help support a newer startup company. Just looking for some opinions. I may just be looking for justification to buy a new bike who knows.

    Anyone else in similar situation? If I do buy a new bike the 5010 will go up for sale.

  2. #2
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    If I could only have one bike it would be a hard-tail. I like the full-sus for the extra safety margin it gives me but the hard-tail is more versatile and fun to ride. Ironically, one of the reasons I bought a full-sus was that fact that I was doing more small drops and harder riding on the hard-tail and I don't want to break the frame. Yeah, I know it will take a lot of abuse but it will fail and drops will hasten that day.

    So, no, I don't think you're crazy. The hard-tail might be a bit slower on some trails but over all I reckon you'll have more fun. Now, if you could keep both bikes..... ;0)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    If I could only have one bike it would be a hard-tail. I like the full-sus for the extra safety margin it gives me but the hard-tail is more versatile and fun to ride. Ironically, one of the reasons I bought a full-sus was that fact that I was doing more small drops and harder riding on the hard-tail and I don't want to break the frame. Yeah, I know it will take a lot of abuse but it will fail and drops will hasten that day.

    So, no, I don't think you're crazy. The hard-tail might be a bit slower on some trails but over all I reckon you'll have more fun. Now, if you could keep both bikes..... ;0)
    I agree with Mr Pig, if I only owned one bike it would be a hardtail. That said, limiting myself to one bike ain't gonna happen. I've got eight bikes hanging in the garage at the moment. Let's see...
    1. Mtn FS (brand new -- yeah!)
    2. Mtn geared hardtail
    3. Mtn SS hardtail
    4. Mtn tourer
    5. Commute bike
    6. Road bike
    7. 26" BMXy
    8. My old Mtn FS... now for sale (already replaced by #1 above)

    Anyway, back to the point -- if only one bike, would it be FS or hardtail? Hardtail for me primarily because I live in the Pacific Northwet where we suffer rain & mud for about 8 months of the year and I don't want to subject expensive monkey motion pivots to destructive sludge & grit. That gets expensive. Besides, during Oregon's soft, sloppy, comparatively low-speed mud season I don't miss suspension.

    But during the PNW's dry, high-speed summer season and for spring & fall Moab / Sedona / Fruita / Gooseberry Mesa road trips, I'm not going without an FS sled. Priorities, priorities.
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  4. #4
    Why so uptite?
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    If I could only have 1 bike it would be a hardtail with 100-120mm front suspension fork & 2.8-3.0" tires.

    I'm lucky that I have a plus hardtail (Titanium) w/ 120mm suspension fork, plus full suspension (Carbon) w/ 120mm travel front & rear and a plus rigid (carbon). But I still prefer the plus hardtail for all around riding.
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  5. #5
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    My only MTB's for the past 7 years have been hardtails. Don't have any desire to go back to full squish unless money becomes no object.

  6. #6
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    I've had a myriad of full suspension bikes over the last 10ish years. I ride mostly mixed condition. Local spot has a bit of everything. I recently switched to a 27.5+ hardtail. At first I thought I made a mistake, but I just needed to remember how to ride a hardtail. The only time I've missed the full suspension is when going fast down certain steep rocky sections, especially if I'm tired. But its a mixed bag, other times I prefer the more physical nature of the hardtail. Some rough sections I've managed to flow pretty well on the hardtail, and it was more fun than on a full suspension. Perhaps its just a matter of learning where to find the "hardtail" lines.

  7. #7
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    The advent of plus tires that stick to the ground, longer travel forks, dropper seatposts, geometry evolution along with much improved braking performance, tubeless tires and carbon componentries for extra control/comfort have all truly meshed in such way to make it a no-brainer to own a hardtail again today in 2017. Never thought I would go back to a HT after moving on to full-suspension 14 years ago. As the story goes, I sold my full-suspension last year and a HT+ is the only MTB currently in my bike stable.

    I would still recommend a full-suspension MTB to those who ride often on very aggressive/technical terrain (e.g., enduro, freeride, downhill) or to someone who needs the additional cushion due to back (e.g., spinal discs) issues.

  8. #8
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    My opinion, if I could only have 1 bike, it would be a short travel 29er FS with "good" geo, just like my Phantom is 105/130, it takes the edge off in the rear like no HT can, but is also better on about everything else but really smooth climbing. That said, going to PLUS on my rigid and HT has definitely made them bikes I reach for more often these days and if it's a true PLUS frame that will fit a 3.0" and steel, then even better IMHO.

    To me only owning one bike just isn't right, if you can afford it, get the PLUS HT and then set you 5010 up as a more aggressive Trail bike for those bigger days, or if you can't afford that, strip the parts off the 5010, but keepo the frame for those "in case" moments/days when you might want/need it - for me that would mean basically keeping it setup just without wheels and fork and maybe cranks
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  9. #9
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Bike Porn

    I had a full squish, sold It after one ride on my Hard Tail Plus bike.

    I'm good :P

    Going back to a hardtail maybe?-img_20170315_141603_996.jpgGoing back to a hardtail maybe?-img_20170315_141529_319.jpgGoing back to a hardtail maybe?-img_20170315_141549_582.jpgGoing back to a hardtail maybe?-img_20170315_141649_940.jpg


    I don't clip In any more,

    I hated my old Hard Tail because of the beatings It gave me.
    My full squish was tons of fun but I wanted HT efficiency, found myself riding locked out too often, was time for a change.

    A Hard Tail Plus bike Is all Hard Tail efficient and fun without the Harshness :P

    Fwiw a Dropper seat post Is just as Important as going tubeless~
    I'm sticking to the 2.8 wides, as I cannot Imagine the need for more traction or float..
    “I seek only the Flow”, "27.5+ Hard Tails Rock"
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  10. #10
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    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I am pretty sure Pedalhead will be in my future very soon. It seems like the riding I do and the trails I ride the plus hardtail should be perfect.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    When ya get Into the roots or nasty chuddar stand up,, It will make you Stronger...
    “I seek only the Flow”, "27.5+ Hard Tails Rock"
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    I had a full squish, sold It after one ride on my Hard Tail Plus bike.

    I'm good

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    I don't clip In any more,

    I hated my old Hard Tail because of the beatings It gave me.
    My full squish was tons of fun but I wanted HT efficiency, found myself riding locked out too often, was time for a change.

    A Hard Tail Plus bike Is all Hard Tail efficient and fun without the Harshness

    Fwiw a Dropper seat post Is just as Important as going tubeless~
    I'm sticking to the 2.8 wides, as I cannot Imagine the need for more traction or float..
    What's the bag on your top tube, and do you hit it at all when you pedal? Sorry for the hijack- I've been thinking about that position for awhile.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbolster24 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I am pretty sure Pedalhead will be in my future very soon. It seems like the riding I do and the trails I ride the plus hardtail should be perfect.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

    You will love the hard tail, and the pedalhead is a great rig. I only have one bike, coming to me this Thursday infact, and I went hardtail. This is after demoing a ton of bikes (though I am not a very skilled rider). I did go Ti, so it'll have a pinch of give to it, but the + tire and front fork are all you really need.

    The guys at GG are awesome dudes too, so your money is going to nice guys... if that matters.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    When ya get Into the roots or nasty chuddar stand up,, It will make you Stronger...
    Who wouldn't stand through that stuff regardless of suspension setup? Is that a thing to actually beat yourself up through miles of rocks and roots?

  15. #15
    chasing simplicity
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    I had a 5010 (v1)...moved to a 29/27.5+ hardtail with two wheel sets (29 er 23mm and 27.5 39mm internal), both sets build exactly with same boost hubs and rotors, and I swap all the time. Either you're not crazy or we all are...either way, fun!
    I know what it's like to be dead. "To Die & Live In LA."

  16. #16
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    I think you will be happy with your decision. I also had a 2015 5010, and switched to a 29+ hardtail at the beginning of last season. I live in upstate NY with similar trail conditions to what you described. I couldn't be happier with the hardtail, it is an absolute blast.

  17. #17
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    What's the bag on your top tube, and do you hit it at all when you pedal? Sorry for the hijack- I've been thinking about that position for awhile.
    I don't remember, Topeak I think, people call em gas tanks, suppose to be up front at the stem. It's really small, cost about $12 and there are many longer ones. and nope I don't make contact with anything, ever. They are both frame wide or a tad more, top one Holds cell phone and an energy bar, bottom one holds the standard trail repair gear and supplies.
    “I seek only the Flow”, "27.5+ Hard Tails Rock"
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    I don't remember, Topeak I think, people call em gas tanks, suppose to be up front at the stem. It's really small, cost about $12 and there are many longer ones. and nope I don't make contact with anything, ever. They are both frame wide or a tad more, top one Holds cell phone and an energy bar, bottom one holds the standard trail repair gear and supplies.
    Nice. The trip geeks call them bento boxes, but I'm on the lookout for a reasonably priced one.

  19. #19
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    Pedalhead is on order will provide some feedback after I get a few rides in.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbolster24 View Post
    Pedalhead is on order will provide some feedback after I get a few rides in.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
    Nice, welcome to the GG club.

  21. #21
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    I am making a similar search now, and plan to buy a 29+ carbon hard tail frame to build up a superlight bike. I have a Santa Cruz Hightower with both 27.5+ wheelset and 29 (kind plus, 29x2.6" tires) so I have played a bit with larger tires and would keep that bike. It has proven to be incredibly versatile, but I think for some of the rides I do I would like to build up a hard tail.

    I would do 29x3.0" or maybe even 3.25" on i40 or i45 rims for the hard tail. My big question is should I go fully rigid or do a 120mm suspension fork? I think the front suspension would soften the ride a bit more, and so while I love the idea of a super light carbon fork, I wonder if my body will need front suspension for longer rides on a hard tail....

    Any thoughts?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by backinmysaddle View Post
    I would do 29x3.0" or maybe even 3.25" on i40 or i45 rims for the hard tail. My big question is should I go fully rigid or do a 120mm suspension fork? I think the front suspension would soften the ride a bit more, and so while I love the idea of a super light carbon fork, I wonder if my body will need front suspension for longer rides on a hard tail....

    Any thoughts?
    The front suspension would soften the ride by a LOT more than a rigid carbon fork. Unless you'll be sticking to purely flow trails or gravel roads, you'll appreciate having a suspension fork, IMHO. 120mm sounds ideal.

  23. #23
    Why so uptite?
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    Quote Originally Posted by backinmysaddle View Post
    I think the front suspension would soften the ride a bit more, and so while I love the idea of a super light carbon fork, I wonder if my body will need front suspension for longer rides on a hard tail....

    Any thoughts?
    I'd suggest adding a suspension fork. I have both, rigid (carbon) and front suspension. I find the rigid just too much unless things are smooth and flowing. The upper body is forced to absorb so much on rigid if things get rough. I find myself getting tired and sloppy too quick on a longer tide.

    If you get a good suspension fork with a 'true' lockout you can have both in one package.
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  24. #24
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    How long are you talking and what sort of terrain? If it's going to be mainly smoother trails (like is the trend building these days), then no need for a sus fork, if you're going to be riding rough trails for long periods, then maybe a sus fork. Personally if I'm looking at a HT it's got to be Steel or Ti, especially if I'm looking for compliance, as most carbon or alu frames aren't generally "soft" rides.

    Quote Originally Posted by backinmysaddle View Post
    I am making a similar search now, and plan to buy a 29+ carbon hard tail frame to build up a superlight bike. I have a Santa Cruz Hightower with both 27.5+ wheelset and 29 (kind plus, 29x2.6" tires) so I have played a bit with larger tires and would keep that bike. It has proven to be incredibly versatile, but I think for some of the rides I do I would like to build up a hard tail.

    I would do 29x3.0" or maybe even 3.25" on i40 or i45 rims for the hard tail. My big question is should I go fully rigid or do a 120mm suspension fork? I think the front suspension would soften the ride a bit more, and so while I love the idea of a super light carbon fork, I wonder if my body will need front suspension for longer rides on a hard tail....

    Any thoughts?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  25. #25
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    I did it for Financial reasons I'm allowing myself one bike this summer, So far I'm content. If I could just leave it alone and stop buying stuff for it that'd be good.

  26. #26
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    N+1 ......Funny I have 3 HT's now, but will be buying a FS bike soon. Some trails are more fun with a FS bike for me.

    Last summer was the first time I didn't have a FS bike for the last 15 years. It feels like its time to pick one up.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by backinmysaddle View Post
    I am making a similar search now, and plan to buy a 29+ carbon hard tail frame to build up a superlight bike. I have a Santa Cruz Hightower with both 27.5+ wheelset and 29 (kind plus, 29x2.6" tires) so I have played a bit with larger tires and would keep that bike. It has proven to be incredibly versatile, but I think for some of the rides I do I would like to build up a hard tail.

    I would do 29x3.0" or maybe even 3.25" on i40 or i45 rims for the hard tail. My big question is should I go fully rigid or do a 120mm suspension fork? I think the front suspension would soften the ride a bit more, and so while I love the idea of a super light carbon fork, I wonder if my body will need front suspension for longer rides on a hard tail....

    Any thoughts?
    I say since you're keeping the FS, go completely opposite and go with a rigid fork. Your body will adapt the more you ride it, and it will make you a better, smoother rider. I would think for your really long days in the saddle you would us the Hightower anyway. Any trail can be ridden at a reasonable pace on a rigid bike, especially a 29+ rigid bike. The rigid fork will also be cheaper, lighter, and require less maintenance, which is always nice when you have more than one bike.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I say since you're keeping the FS, go completely opposite and go with a rigid fork. Your body will adapt the more you ride it, and it will make you a better, smoother rider. I would think for your really long days in the saddle you would us the Hightower anyway. Any trail can be ridden at a reasonable pace on a rigid bike, especially a 29+ rigid bike. The rigid fork will also be cheaper, lighter, and require less maintenance, which is always nice when you have more than one bike.
    Thanks for that nudge, I was on a 10 mile ride yesterday afternoon and was leaning toward that direction. The Hightower is so versatile that I can use it for so much, I think I would like to have the "spread" between these two bikes fairly big. So I think at least initially I will set up as a fully rigid and see how I can deal with getting the most from the bigger tires. If it winds up being intolerable, I can always look for a suspension fork.

  29. #29
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    A lightweight lockable fork is a good compromise, a Float, Reba, SID, Sektor etc. Even a locked suspension fork does not feel as quick and direct as a rigid fork but the flip side is that they are vastly better on rough tracks. Like night and day better.

    It depends on what you ride but rough trails on a rigid bike at any kind of pace is tough. If you go fast enough you can hardly see! The world is a blur. It also makes long ride very tiring.

    The simplicity of a rigid bike is great though. It's not just the lack of maintenance but they have a purity about the way they ride that feels great too. There is just something about a rigid that makes you feel that this is how a bicycle should feel. The smile-per-mile quota is higher on a rigid.

  30. #30
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    Well all parts arrived and just got her together. Taking to bike shop for quick once over tomorrow and hopefully hit the trails. 27.5 x3. 0 tires seem a whole lot bigger then the 2.8's I was riding. Looks to be a really fun bike.



    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

  31. #31
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    Nice pedalhead. I think you will love it and be surprised what it can handle.

  32. #32
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    I made the switch to 27.5x2.8 HT from a full suspension XC bike. I live in northern NJ ... so lots of similar terrain (roots and rocks.)

    I went with an Otso Voytek from the folks at Wolftooth. 120mm Fox 34 build with I9 36mm wheels. Love this set up and I rarely miss the rear suspension. Right now, this is my only mountain bike. But I'm sure I'll pick up a full squish (Scott Spark?) for variety.
    Going back to a hardtail maybe?-voytek.jpg
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Single_Trak_Mind View Post
    I made the switch to 27.5x2.8 HT from a full suspension XC bike. I live in northern NJ ... so lots of similar terrain (roots and rocks.)

    I went with an Otso Voytek from the folks at Wolftooth. 120mm Fox 34 build with I9 36mm wheels. Love this set up and I rarely miss the rear suspension. Right now, this is my only mountain bike. But I'm sure I'll pick up a full squish (Scott Spark?) for variety.
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    Sweet bike you got there!

  34. #34
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    I have had numerous full suspension bikes but always gravitate back to a hardtail.
    A plus bike makes this transition even easier.
    I like to stand and climb and for that reason alone I don't get along with full suspension.
    Another factor on full suspension is the sheer maintenance factor, several times that of a front fork with all the pivots and bearings and trying to keep things quiet. I have a rockshox reba on my old 29er with probably over 20,000 miles on it and only one rebuild and it still works well.
    I bought my Stache 5 rigid and although there are things I liked about it, there were just too many situtations that called for a suspension fork to really make the bike off road ready. With a suspension fork and a dropper post and some beefy tires it is the most capable off road bike I have ever had. I think rigid is fine but only for the road! Otherwise the hands and body just get beat to shit!

  35. #35
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    Last week I was in San Jose del Cabo and found a local bike store w rentals and some new local trails that were kind of sandy/loose so I took out a 26" fully rigid fat bike. What a blast, I think I am going to put some money aside to build up a 29x3.25 fully rigid. The fat bike was a bit more tire than I need or want, but I did get a sense of the small bump absorption of a fat/plus tire with no suspension. It is bouncier than suspension in the sense that you can tune rebound w suspension, but it did a nice job taking the edge off nonetheless. I was on trails that were largely XC, no drops over say 4-6" so pretty smooth. Everyone there was on 3" or bigger and many on hardtails. I couldnt see much advantage to a front suspension on that terrain. So I'll have to think about the local trails a bit, but there is definitely some non enduro stuff out there where I would prefer fully rigid.

  36. #36
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbolster24 View Post
    Well all parts arrived and just got her together. Taking to bike shop for quick once over tomorrow and hopefully hit the trails. 27.5 x3. 0 tires seem a whole lot bigger then the 2.8's I was riding. Looks to be a really fun bike.



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    Nice looking bike. Hardtail pluses are where it's at in my book.

  38. #38
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    Yet somehow there is a huge market and amount of people who ride rigid off road and have fun doing so If you try to ride the same rough trails you ride on your FS, as hard on a rigid, then you will end up feeling quite sore unless you're super fit and/or super talented.

    IMHO, I like the fact that the rigid upfront reminds you that it's the same out back, so don't go writing cheques upfront the rear can't cash so easily FYI I own a full stable, rigid, HT, short travel FS, mid range FS and if I had to only have one bike, it would definitely be a nice short travel 29er FS.

    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    ......With a suspension fork and a dropper post and some beefy tires it is the most capable off road bike I have ever had. I think rigid is fine but only for the road! Otherwise the hands and body just get beat to shit!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  39. #39
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    One month in for riding a steel 27.5 plus h/t. Eveything I hoped for "plus" some.
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  40. #40
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    My Hard Tail Plus bike Is pretty plush to me, I used to lock out my rear on my full squish and now with this hard tail BECAUSE of the plus tires I often lock out my fork for the ride into the park and forget to unlock it for most of or even the whole ride :P

    Hard Tail efficiency Is hard to beat and plus tires at sub 15 psi pressures really take the harshness out of the hard tail..
    “I seek only the Flow”, "27.5+ Hard Tails Rock"
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  41. #41
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    Watching some of the riders and videos on full sus bikes descending those rocky, rooty drops that barley resemble a trail if they even are a trail, makes me realize I don't go in search of those types of trails and if I found my way to one occasionally, it would be by accident rather than choice, and the one time I might use/appreciate that level of control, comfort and traction.

    I really do feel fortunate that I'm not so versatile of a rider to justify or need a few types of bikes.
    Everything I'm reading by those that test ride or purchased a 27.5 plus has been very reassuring. The strong points were exactly my hot buttons for my next bike or even justifying making a change.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbolster24 View Post
    Well all parts arrived and just got her together. Taking to bike shop for quick once over tomorrow and hopefully hit the trails. 27.5 x3. 0 tires seem a whole lot bigger then the 2.8's I was riding. Looks to be a really fun bike.



    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    Very nce bike, great colours, you will really enjoy the trails on a hardtail, they are such fun.

  43. #43
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    Trails finally opened up today so taking her on the maiden voyage. Going to ride a trail that I have been riding full suspension for the past 9 months so should get a pretty good idea. Small climbs, roots, whindy, some flow and a few rock gardens. Will report back.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    I really do feel fortunate that I'm not so versatile of a rider to justify or need a few types of bikes.
    Neither am I but it's still excelant! :0)

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