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  1. #101
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    Okay, now I got a good, one, I wanna talk about wearing shorts without liners, like seriously, people still do that? Doesn't it make your junk get all nasty and rashy? I like liners, but damn they are expensive. I also like to use that slippery stuff so I don't get rashy, but oooooh does my stuff stink after a long day of riding!

  2. #102
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    I only clicked here because I was curious WTH about tube vs tubeless was being discussed in 2018.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I only clicked here because I was curious WTH about tube vs tubeless was being discussed in 2018.
    Next you should swing on into the SS forum and tell everyone about how all real mountain bikers put as many gears possible on their bikes. Well, as many cool gears as possible; wouldn't want to be caught with more than one chainring or anything. Cuz 2018.
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  4. #104
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    You know the old saying, you can lead a horse to water and sometimes the horse will crap in it.

  5. #105
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    I know...i am going to get on a forum where people discuss things...and then get mad when people discuss things...especially things that I don't find interesting, or have seen before.

    The nerve!!!!







    just sayin'....
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  6. #106
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    Did this happen when fat bikes became mainstream too? I don't recall.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    Did this happen when fat bikes became mainstream too? I don't recall.
    Yes - that's when the self-proclaimed gear gods decreed that it was now impossible for anyone past, present or future to ride or have ridden in any amount of snow without one. And dork-mitts are mandatory if the temp falls under 49F.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillaroida View Post
    How is asking a question a perfect example of what he was talking about?
    It only makes sense if you are paranoid, and think everyone is judging you and your equipment choices every time you ride.

  9. #109
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    So in conclusion:

    Schizoid personalities run tubes
    Antisocial personalities run cushcore
    Dependent persionalities run tubeless

    Great info!

    Now the big question: What would a narcisist run?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So in conclusion:

    Schizoid personalities run tubes
    Antisocial personalities run cushcore
    Dependent persionalities run tubeless

    Great info!

    Now the big question: What would a narcisist run?
    I play drums in a cushcore band!!! Hella mosh pits!
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So in conclusion:

    Schizoid personalities run tubes
    Antisocial personalities run cushcore
    Dependent persionalities run tubeless

    Great info!

    Now the big question: What would a narcisist run?
    I inflate my tires with my own breath because it's about 100 times better than the air from a floor pump because I'm basically the best at everything. Not sure what a narcissist would do, because I'm above all that.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So in conclusion:

    Schizoid personalities run tubes
    Antisocial personalities run cushcore
    Dependent persionalities run tubeless

    Great info!

    Now the big question: What would a narcisist run?
    Quote Originally Posted by formula4speed View Post
    I inflate my tires with my own breath because it's about 100 times better than the air from a floor pump because I'm basically the best at everything. Not sure what a narcissist would do, because I'm above all that.
    Well played, well played.

  13. #113
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So in conclusion:

    Schizoid personalities run tubes
    Antisocial personalities run cushcore
    Dependent persionalities run tubeless

    Great info!

    Now the big question: What would a narcisist run?
    Dude, reread this thread. All the narcissists have already chimed in!

    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    2.35 is a minus tire!
    Not all of them - Schwalbe 2.35's plump-up real nice on a wide rim!

  15. #115
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    It's all that nitrogen... and maybe a bit o' methane

    Quote Originally Posted by formula4speed View Post
    I inflate my tires with my own breath because it's about 100 times better than the air from a floor pump because I'm basically the best at everything. Not sure what a narcissist would do, because I'm above all that.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    I agree. I'm skeptical that an average rider could tell the difference. I think it's largely placebo effect.

    I don't care for super low pressures either. I usually ride around 25-30 psi in my 2.35s. Less than that feels vague and squirmy.

    Tubeless are great for flat prevention though.
    Quote Originally Posted by one piece crank View Post
    Not all of them - Schwalbe 2.35's plump-up real nice on a wide rim!
    They might plump up when ya cook em, but sure don't have that 3.0 feel.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  17. #117
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    Wink And the Trifecta Winner is .. .. ..

    Quote Originally Posted by fillaroida View Post
    Folks have been running tubeless/droppers for well over a decade.

    “Newer trends”?


    "Glad you found it works well for you and makes the rides better, safer , faster , more comfortable, less flat tires ..."

    Well, that's not exactly the
    Oprahesque Drama, rationale, justification or reasoning
    I was talking about, but this new 10 years thing .... S OL D - I'm doing it !!

    PLEASE;
    cut and paste words from other context strategically to win some points by misrepresenting what I said.

    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiek376 View Post
    I'm positive this has been discussed, maybe I'm bad at the search function!

    I just picked up a kona big honzo (standard, not dl). This is my first plus bike. I've read that I need to go tubeless to truly get the benefits of the plus tires? Is this true? Anyone running with tubes at lower pressures and rolling along fine?
    your bike will roll fine. you dont "need" to go tubeless but the chances of getting a flat due to low pressure but going tubeless helps in this regard, without a doubt.

    in addition to lessening the chances of a flat, youll drop a lot of weight from your bike in a crucial area. anything from 1-2lbs depending on the tube. a ring of tape and 2-4oz of sealant is all you need.

    theres really no benefit to running a tube on a plus bike. ive destroyed exactly one tire bad enough that it didnt self seal, and it was such that a tube wouldnt have been helpful either considering the size of the puncture.

    there seems to be a lot of **** measuring going on in this thread instead of actual help. were grown adults who ride bikes in the woods like when we were kids. we dont need any help being made fun of guys.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post

    PLEASE;
    cut and paste words from other context strategically to win some points by misrepresenting what I said.
    How is quoting exactly what you posted and asking a question “misrepresenting what you said”?

    You continue to struggle here.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillaroida View Post
    How is quoting exactly what you posted and asking a question “misrepresenting what you said”?

    You continue to struggle here.
    You don't mean like struggle reading right ?

    The rest of the sentence (for context) ie; words following "newer trends"

    ...or reading the various features others have endeavored to add, upgrade or update to for any reason-

    I'm just a rider with the tires and seatpost that came on my bike,
    like it the way it is and ain't got nothing to fix yet.
    Darn IT !
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Next you should swing on into the SS forum and tell everyone about how all real mountain bikers put as many gears possible on their bikes. Well, as many cool gears as possible; wouldn't want to be caught with more than one chainring or anything. Cuz 2018.
    When my HT is setup SS it is still tubeless.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  22. #122
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    I still think we're missing an incredibly opportunity to use the momentum created in this thread to discuss really important issues that affect global comfort:

    Ergo vs non ergo grips, does it make my butt look bigger?

    Short vs long brake levers, see below:
    Two finger braking, technique, laziness, or weak hands?

    1x vs 2 x, oh my!

    Padded shorts, just for old butts or not enough time in the saddle?

    Tight fitting jerseys, good form or dependent on "form"?

    Multi lens sunglasses or lenses that adjust, will my it improve my Strava times?

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I still think we're missing an incredibly opportunity to use the momentum created in this thread to discuss really important issues that affect global comfort:

    Ergo vs non ergo grips, does it make my butt look bigger?

    Short vs long brake levers, see below:
    Two finger braking, technique, laziness, or weak hands?

    1x vs 2 x, oh my!

    Padded shorts, just for old butts or not enough time in the saddle?

    Tight fitting jerseys, good form or dependent on "form"?

    Multi lens sunglasses or lenses that adjust, will my it improve my Strava times?
    awesome!!!

    Those are actually as ridiculous sounding as some of the serious topics we see at our professional development conference every year...and the clinics themselves are usually the same
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I still think we're missing an incredibly opportunity to use the momentum created in this thread to discuss really important issues that affect global comfort:

    Ergo vs non ergo grips, does it make my butt look bigger?

    Ergo grips may be comfortable but make you look like a dork.

    Short vs long brake levers, see below:
    Two finger braking, technique, laziness, or weak hands?

    Two fingers = poor technique

    1x vs 2 x, oh my!

    What is 2X?

    Padded shorts, just for old butts or not enough time in the saddle?

    Poor saddle fit.

    Tight fitting jerseys, good form or dependent on "form"?

    Unless someone is paying you they are dorky.

    Multi lens sunglasses or lenses that adjust, will my it improve my Strava times?
    Absolutely not. Lenses can't change tint fast enough. We have fast trails that go from clearcut to thick woods in .5 heartbeats, and lenses that change tint are only going to slow you down.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  25. #125
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    How about flip downs, it could be as simple as finger tap.

    I'd hate to have my Strava times slowed down, heavens to Bestsy!

    So I got this idea from a book about Neanderthals... they had very prominent brows which likely served to block the sun; I don't think Neanderthals were into baseball.

    So maybe some sort of graft or an insert like piercings, how cool would that be to adjust the shade based on the weather!

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Absolutely not. Lenses can't change tint fast enough. We have fast trails that go from clearcut to thick woods in .5 heartbeats, and lenses that change tint are only going to slow you down.

  26. #126
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    Remote dropper shades!

  27. #127
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    Dude, I think your on to something here, seriously, a simple tap to the eye piece and the shade raises or lowers, I'm thinking patentable idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoker View Post
    Remote dropper shades!

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    When my HT is setup SS it is still tubeless.

    Everyone knows that full suspension and gears are faster and perform better.
    Get with the program.
    It's 2018 FFS!
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeakymcgillicuddy View Post
    I have. I agree that it can be the way to go for a lot of people in a lot of situations...but others are just making things more complicated for no good reason. Setup is usually pretty simple, but sometimes it's messy and more of a struggle than a tube would ever be. You have to keep your tires pressured and add sealant occasionally. Changing tires can be messy. If you break a spoke off at the nipple you have to re-tape and reset. All minor and manageable issues, but I try not to complicate things without reason. I'm running my pressure as low as I care to go...any less and I'll be beating up my rim. I don't have issues with pinches or punctures. What would I be gaining by going tubeless?
    " Setup is usually pretty simple, but sometimes it's messy and more of a struggle than a tube would ever be."

    The way It was shown to me and with that methode I've not had messy and have not struggled,, but yes a tube Is easier.

    "You have to keep your tires pressured and add sealant occasionally."
    Tubeless I loose about 2-3 psi per week if the bike sits, With my normal 2 to 3 rides a week I loose a pound or so every couple of days.
    Tubed I'd loose about 2-3 psi per week if the bike sits, With my normal 2 to 3 rides a week I loose a pound or so every couple of days.

    As for adding:
    Up to about five months nothing, then I add sealant through the valve stem with no mess or problems. The core spins right out. This takes about 5 minutes of shaking and beating the two 2 oz bottles to death and a few more minutes to squeeze Into the tire, Never breaking the oh so important rim bead to tire seal.
    15 minutes total, then I go ride.
    Unlike changing a tube my wheel stays on the bike, NO tire tools needed, No remounting because I've had NO FLATS.
    Adding sealant doesn't even get my hands dirty,,,, crap that sounded gay ~~)


    "What would I be gaining by going tubeless?"
    Oh not much, just something that's not important to everyone I guess,,
    only,,
    "Lightweight tires and tubes or a fresh tubeless setup can make a big difference in how your bike handles. Not only does fresh rubber give you more traction, reducing the rotating mass of any wheel makes your bike feel much faster.
    By dropping weight from the wheels, your not only reducing the total mass but also the amount you have to accelerate and decelerate while riding."

    Taken from MBA Jan 2018 page 34, right hand column , third paragraph....

    The change going tubeless was profound for me and every single rider I know and have ridden with, all of them all said the same things about the benefit.

    All I want Is for those who have not yet gave It an honest try to just go for it.

    Oh yeah before I forget If you use fingerless gloves the wind drag will slow you down big time, Remember to wax your helmet, trim your beard and SHAVE YOUR GUNS :P~)
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  30. #130
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    The drop down lenses needs a bar mounted wireless remote.

    Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    All I want Is for those who have not yet gave It an honest try to just go for it.

    Oh yeah before I forget If you use fingerless gloves the wind drag will slow you down big time :P~)
    Sensible advice. I don't know what I don't know, just too busy with work, grampa day care and some rides squeezed in.

    One of the guys I ride with is a even-tempered wrench who I truly believe gets as much mental health out of using his work shop, tools and bike futzing as riding. He'll convert me over any time and show me the how-to. Just put it off thinking I'll have that need or excuse when the tires are toast or the flats plague me.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoker View Post
    Remote dropper shades!
    I was running proflex mechanical dropper shades 20 years ago. It has been done before, marketing suckers!!!!

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    [B]
    All I want Is for those who have not yet gave It an honest try to just go for it.
    Same as dropper posts, I've run tubeless enough to know how it works for me, which is perfectly functional but with no noticeable difference in performance. Then at some point, I end up having to put a tube in trailside, which also is perfectly functional with no performance hit that I can feel. Then I come to the conclusion that I don't feel any burning need fix something that isn't broken and happily just leave the tube in.

    On my plus bike, my tubes have outlasted 2 sets of tires without a patch, and there's no way the worn out tires would be holding air if I tried to run them tubeless; they'd be bleeding out the sidewalls like you read about even after I did a number of repairs to them.
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  34. #134
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    Maybe it's just me but I can actually feel a huge difference in the way the tires feel with a tubeless setup. They just give more neutral feedback and don't bounce as much. Like adding more rebound damping to a fork. That for me is worth going tubeless alone.

  35. #135
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    Well the tube I installed only lasted for 1.5 rides. My conclusion is that tubes are good for kom's but a burden for everyday riding.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUGlife View Post
    Maybe it's just me but I can actually feel a huge difference in the way the tires feel with a tubeless setup. They just give more neutral feedback and don't bounce as much. Like adding more rebound damping to a fork. That for me is worth going tubeless alone.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUGlife View Post
    Maybe it's just me but I can actually feel a huge difference in the way the tires feel with a tubeless setup. They just give more neutral feedback and don't bounce as much. Like adding more rebound damping to a fork. That for me is worth going tubeless alone.
    My experience as well. The tire doesn't have to fight the pushback and friction of the tube.

    Not sure why anyone would run tubes these days.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    My experience as well. The tire doesn't have to fight the pushback and friction of the tube.
    Not sure why anyone would run tubes these days.
    Yeah one thread responder thought I was kidding when I spoke of tube/tire
    sidewall friction messing up the supple feeling of a tubeless set up.

    So many think something Is bhullcit If they personally have not tested It out. Or they cannot accept that something as Inexpensive and simple as a tubeless setup could give a noticeable performance gain that could be a greater benefit than the latest expensive mod they did to a bike.

    Yeah really It Is hard to believe that In 2018 with all the great bike advancements out anyone would cripple a bikes handling by running tubes.

    Lead a horse to water,,,, don't know why I even got In this thread.
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  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    Yeah one thread responder thought I was kidding when I spoke of tube/tire
    sidewall friction messing up the supple feeling of a tubeless set up.
    Since it's likely you're talking about one of my posts I'll just reiterate that it's only my personal experience, never said it was bs but for the life of me I can't feel any magical difference in the ride and can't really run lower pressures.

    I do have a lot of experience with both setups and would never choose tubes again but for different reasons than those.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  40. #140
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    we could have a WAY better argument about dropper posts.... who's starting the thread????

    on this subject; after poo-pooing tubeless for years as messy and not worth it i finally tried it and got my own compressor (key to tubeless happiness IMHO). After swearing at the first couple installs; I now can't imagine going back... And believe me; I am a techno curmudgeon (rigid bike; just recently got gears due to age and declining fitness).

    I still don't believe in droppers (i got long legs; so i can simply stand up and the seat goes way far away from me junk).

  41. #141
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    Here is an interesting read: Clinchers, tubulars and tubeless - which tyre system is the fastest? (video) - Cycling Weekly

    I know this is for road bikes but I don't see why the results would be so much different for mountain bikes?
    There was only 5 watts difference so I can't believe that one could really notice the difference in rolling resistance on mountain bikes between tubes and tubeless.
    The big difference is likely to be in the particular tire you are running. Tread pattern and sidewall stiffness contribute a lot more to rolling resistance than running tubeless in my opinion. A supple sidewall with a good rolling tread will probably make a bigger difference. But then you might not have the traction you want or you may suffer more sidewall tears.
    Like I stated earlier I prefer tubeless but for reasons other than rolling resistance.
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Here is an interesting read: Clinchers, tubulars and tubeless - which tyre system is the fastest? (video) - Cycling Weekly

    I know this is for road bikes but I don't see why the results would be so much different for mountain bikes?
    There was only 5 watts difference so I can't believe that one could really notice the difference in rolling resistance on mountain bikes between tubes and tubeless.
    The big difference is likely to be in the particular tire you are running. Tread pattern and sidewall stiffness contribute a lot more to rolling resistance than running tubeless in my opinion. A supple sidewall with a good rolling tread will probably make a bigger difference. But then you might not have the traction you want or you may suffer more sidewall tears.
    Like I stated earlier I prefer tubeless but for reasons other than rolling resistance.
    I would say there is a pretty big difference between what a road tire has to go through, and what a MTB tire goes through on a typical ride. Pure rolling resistance is but part of the total equation. The ability to conform (due to lower tire pressures) to the trail surface and grip is more of what I notice versus rolling resistance when it comes to tubeless versus tubed.

    Maybe I am agreeing with your other reasons for preferring tubeless, but it is hard to tell from your post.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    cripple a bikes handling by running tubes.
    Exaggerate much?
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Exaggerate much?
    I tend agree with this, some may feel a difference. I only noticed a difference in how supple it feels at high speeds on chatter. Not much, not enough to care. The matter of sidewall support, aka wider rims, ya that made a difference running tubes versus tubeless. Wider tires on narrow rims werent great tubeless. Tubed felt perfect. Move to wider rims and life became bliss running tubeless.

    But major effects on bikes handling... Maybe at a world cup racing level where they will notice every tiny variation. Tire design, pressure and so on matter so much more.

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    You don't have to be a top level racer to feel the difference that tubeless makes. When rolling over roots and rocks the bike just reacts less and doesn't ping off them as hard. I would argue that people that say they can't tell the difference haven't spend the time getting it right. Tire pressure is key and if you don't run lower pressures in your tubeless setup it will feel just like a tube tire. Go tubeless, drop a few psi and then tell me you can't tell the difference.

    Oh, and no flats! Doesn't matter if you ride in thorny trails or not, there's always that barb wire fence under the grass or poky stick to get you when you least expect it.

    Tubeless is the perfect trifecta: less weight, better tire performance, fewer flats. It's science.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Exaggerate much?
    Yeah, that is a bit excessive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    Yeah one thread responder thought I was kidding when I spoke of tube/tire
    sidewall friction messing up the supple feeling of a tubeless set up.
    No. That's just you being dense.

    I was not chuckling because I thought you were kidding.

    I was chuckling because you believe, and were spouting, the ole talc/friction myth.

    Anyone choosing to ride with tubes in the plus size?-idiot.png

    Educate yourself:

    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/talcum.html

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Exaggerate much?
    I dunno... crippled biking for past few hundred years ? Might be sumthin' to it.

    There's got to be reason's I've yet to win a race.
    Oh wait ,,, I guess entering a race would be the first step !!

    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Not sure why anyone would run tubes these days.
    My reasoning hasn't really changed. I'll wait for a tube or tire failure since my bike isn't very old, came with a nice set of tires and I have the pressure where the bike handles and responds predictably and as I like.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    My experience as well. The tire doesn't have to fight the pushback and friction of the tube.

    Not sure why anyone would run tubes these days.
    I'm not sure why anyone would use a +tire that weighs more than a 4.8...
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  50. #150
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    I remember doing a Trek demo in 2002 @ South Mountain Park in Phoenix. Didn't care too much for the Fuel I tested except was impressed enough with its tire performance to ask about it when I returned the bike. Was told it was probably because I had just had my first ride on tubeless tires. They were set to the same 32 psi (2.0 tires) I normally ran. Took a little time to convert and test but have basically been a tubeless fan ever since. Not sure how this relates to plus tires as my Chameleon didn't even come with tubes and I've noticed that the tubed holdouts tend to run heavier/larger tires. Do know that the almost 1.5 lbs. I lost in rotational weight on my fatbike made a big difference. Converting to tubeless was also the point where I quit getting 4+ flats a week (I try to ride every day).
    Mole

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUGlife View Post
    Tire pressure is key and if you don't run lower pressures in your tubeless setup it will feel just like a tube tire. Go tubeless, drop a few psi and then tell me you can't tell the difference.
    So they feel the same to you, until you drop a few psi in the tubeless?

    Would stand to reason that they'd feel the same to you once again after you drop a few psi in the tubes too, wouldn't it?

    I run my plus tires as soft with tubes as I want them to be. Any lower, they float, self-steer, rim-strike and roll over under cornering. Not looking to win the "I run the lowest pressure on the internet" contest myself so I can't see why I would ever want to run under 10 psi on dirt and rock (do get away with it in the snow though though.) If weight were a major concern of mine, I can't say an FS with 3" tires would exactly be my choice of bike in the first place either.

    Nothing wrong at all going with tubeless if you like it of course, has some weight advantage and is huge if you get a lot of punctures for sure. Same tires at the same pressure and I don't really notice any difference in feel or handling though, not that I claim to be highly sensitive or operate at an elite level or anything like that.

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  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    I'm not sure why anyone would use a +tire that weighs more than a 4.8...
    I agree, my plus tires are at 800 and 820 grams, right about where my 2.35's of just three years back weighed. But still far less than many 2.somethings, I'll prolly try a 2.6 wide in the low 700's. Tried a 1,000 gram 2.35 with some badazz knobs, felt like I put water in the things when pedaling up a hill.
    “I seek only the Flow”,
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  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I remember doing a Trek demo in 2002 @ South Mountain Park in Phoenix. Didn't care too much for the Fuel I tested except was impressed enough with its tire performance to ask about it when I returned the bike. Was told it was probably because I had just had my first ride on tubeless tires. They were set to the same 32 psi (2.0 tires) I normally ran. Took a little time to convert and test but have basically been a tubeless fan ever since. Not sure how this relates to plus tires as my Chameleon didn't even come with tubes and I've noticed that the tubed holdouts tend to run heavier/larger tires. Do know that the almost 1.5 lbs. I lost in rotational weight on my fatbike made a big difference. Converting to tubeless was also the point where I quit getting 4+ flats a week (I try to ride every day).
    Mole
    Yup,
    You Said, "except was impressed enough with its tire performance"
    and they Said, "it was probably because I had just had my first ride on tubeless tires"

    And this point,"They were set to the same 32 psi (2.0 tires) I normally ran"

    My Plus bike, a very efficient Slack Hard Tail absolutely sucked In handling and had this terrible boat anchor feeling In my hands when carving corners.

    As I said before, I yanked the tubes after a round trip of only ONE mile and went back out,
    Suddenly I had a very efficient feeling surprisingly light, hard tail under me with bucket loads of traction with the plus tires with a no pig feel. :P

    Then I see comments like, "highly sensitive or operate at an elite level", That's definitely not me!

    or,,,

    "I was chuckling because you believe, and were spouting, the ole talc/friction myth"

    OK I admit that is an old chunk of BS, Inner tire sidewalls and tubes are not really smooth

    BUT !

    Lighter tires and tires with thinner side walls respond/handle better,, this I know to be true at least for me.
    I believe a tire sidewall supported by a tube pressing against it will be stiffer and screw up the tires ability to conform to the trail.

    I can feel major differences when I changed things like,
    aluminum to carbon handlebars,
    Lighter tires,
    Tubeless,
    A lighter stiffer crank set was a real surprise..
    The thing that really surprised me was my new bike with It's cheap house brand BOOST wheels felt Just like my $1,000 American classic wheels.
    Seems the added spoke angle from the minimal boost spacing change really did stiffen up things..
    I would not be the least bit surprised If many found this one to be total BullHockey.

    But weighed against all of these upgrades I've done and how much they Improved my bike, (The wheels were a grand, the crank was $550, the handle bar was $225),,,

    Taken against all that, spending $25 on some really cool looking red tubeless valve stems and $6 on two 2 oz bottle of tire sealant, In this I felt the greatest overall performance boost..

    Like one said, "It's 2018 and people still run tubes" I find this very odd.
    "Can't feel the difference" tells me that person Is doing It wrong.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone choosing to ride with tubes in the plus size?-tire-clearance.jpg  

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  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    Yup,
    You Said, "except was impressed enough with its tire performance"
    and they Said, "it was probably because I had just had my first ride on tubeless tires"

    And this point,"They were set to the same 32 psi (2.0 tires) I normally ran"

    My Plus bike, a very efficient Slack Hard Tail absolutely sucked In handling and had this terrible boat anchor feeling In my hands when carving corners.

    As I said before, I yanked the tubes after a round trip of only ONE mile and went back out,
    Suddenly I had a very efficient feeling surprisingly light, hard tail under me with bucket loads of traction with the plus tires with a no pig feel. :P

    Then I see comments like, "highly sensitive or operate at an elite level", That's definitely not me!

    or,,,

    "I was chuckling because you believe, and were spouting, the ole talc/friction myth"

    OK I admit that is an old chunk of BS, Inner tire sidewalls and tubes are not really smooth

    BUT !

    Lighter tires and tires with thinner side walls respond/handle better,, this I know to be true at least for me.
    I believe a tire sidewall supported by a tube pressing against it will be stiffer and screw up the tires ability to conform to the trail.

    I can feel major differences when I changed things like,
    aluminum to carbon handlebars,
    Lighter tires,
    Tubeless,
    A lighter stiffer crank set was a real surprise..
    The thing that really surprised me was my new bike with It's cheap house brand BOOST wheels felt Just like my $1,000 American classic wheels.
    Seems the added spoke angle from the minimal boost spacing change really did stiffen up things..
    I would not be the least bit surprised If many found this one to be total BullHockey.

    But weighed against all of these upgrades I've done and how much they Improved my bike, (The wheels were a grand, the crank was $550, the handle bar was $225),,,

    Taken against all that, spending $25 on some really cool looking red tubeless valve stems and $6 on two 2 oz bottle of tire sealant, In this I felt the greatest overall performance boost..

    Like one said, "It's 2018 and people still run tubes" I find this very odd.
    "Can't feel the difference" tells me that person Is doing It wrong.
    Who you trying to convince?

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    Hell no
    Yep.

    Hell I run sealant on my road bikes too, especially with tubulars!

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post
    I agree, my plus tires are at 800 and 820 grams, right about where my 2.35's of just three years back weighed. But still far less than many 2.somethings, I'll prolly try a 2.6 wide in the low 700's. Tried a 1,000 gram 2.35 with some badazz knobs, felt like I put water in the things when pedaling up a hill.
    I have a pair of 3.0's in 720g and a pair in 820g. My bike is very comfortable and rides efficiently with Q-Tubes TU-6661 SL's and feels no different than it did tubeless. After the marathon of changing tires while it was tubeless, I found myself wondering if scumless tubeless will be reinvented.

    There's nothing like installing load range E tires on a Subaru!!
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  57. #157
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    Holy Batman and Robin, are you guys still talking about tubeless stuff?

    Damn, go ride your bikes!

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Holy Batman and Robin, are you guys still talking about tubeless stuff?

    Damn, go ride your bikes!
    Bored from life? Spending too much time in Forums? Go cycling instead of posting crap...

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Holy Batman and Robin, are you guys still talking about tubeless stuff?

    Damn, go ride your bikes!

    You've taken a 3 day break, but some of this is tube stuff also !


    Around the time I got my plus bike, they were said/thought by some to be a cheater, making riding easier and less challenging. I laughed along with some of that jibber just as I realized my "magic bike" was pennies on the dollar to any one bike they'd collected in their stable.

    "Sho Nuff rider of many years and experience! I won the lottery finding this one here!"

    Much of that commentary came from riders that have some pretty nice or high-end bikes, purchase the latest gadgets, continue/d improving on or searching for better wheels, lighter handle bars, carbon this or titanium that.

    I guess we make allowances for or overlook that spending, all the upgrades and niceties, complement the looks and higher tier bling and not remind them of their scorn, downcast opinions, judgement and shaming of others who went the easy way.

    Can't Be Easy for 'em.
    Those days of deciding if it's the wet trails bike, the high country climber, the downhill barnburner or the ummmmm ,,, let's see. What else do 'we' have hiding back there ?

    I'll wait on the dropper and the tire goop a bit more but my guess is soon and maybe in my 57th year, I'll be ready for a some of these new fangled advantages for the magic bike.
    Last edited by bachman1961; 05-20-2018 at 01:04 PM.
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  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osco View Post

    I can feel major differences when I changed things like,
    aluminum to carbon handlebars,
    Lighter tires,
    Tubeless,
    A lighter stiffer crank set was a real surprise..
    The thing that really surprised me was my new bike with It's cheap house brand BOOST wheels felt Just like my $1,000 American classic wheels.
    Seems the added spoke angle from the minimal boost spacing change really did stiffen up things..
    I would not be the least bit surprised If many found this one to be total BullHockey.

    But weighed against all of these upgrades I've done and how much they Improved my bike, (The wheels were a grand, the crank was $550, the handle bar was $225),,,
    I think most of what you think you're feeling is due to a much lighter wallet.

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  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I think most of what you think you're feeling is due to a much lighter wallet.

    Hahaha True Dat :P
    “I seek only the Flow”,
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  62. #162
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    I can't believe there are 160 replies about tubes in + tires!!!

    I thought it would be one of those zero reply threads where everyone is thinking DUH of course everyone goes tubeless, and didn't even bother replying.

    I have no idea how much tubeless helps vs. tubes, because they only + tire I have is tubeless; I have not put in a tube yet. All I know is that on certain trails a 2.8 tire completely destroys the downhill time vs. a 2.5 tire. Totally destroys it. My favorite trail previously had a best time for the 26" bike of 11 minutes 45 seconds, 26 x 2.4 tire in front. The 26 x 2.8's time was 10 minutes 5 seconds. Just completely blows a more narrow tire away. Like the rocks are not even there. 27.5's previous best time 9 minutes 55 seconds with Maxxis 2.5. Put on the 26 x 2.8, best time was 8 minutes 50 seconds, a full minute faster with a 0.5 inch shorter 26" tire in front! Just 0.3 more inches of width in front yields amazing results. I like it so much I went 26 x 2.5 in back and converted my 27.5 bike to a 26 1/2+, just for the hell of it. With the seat down it feels like a different bike for sure.

    If you do end up using tubes though, I cannot recommend the pair of Kenda 2.4-2.7 tubes on Amazon (I have one in back on a 2.35 tire, not in a real + tire). First off, they do not have the usual removable valve core for adding sealant, and while trying to monkey around with the screw I ended up ruining it and couldn't get it to hold air, threw it in the trash. Second, even the tube with the good valve could not be hooked up properly to a floor pump, and I had to end up using a mini pump just to put air in it. Inferior tubes. They weigh 11 ounces each if anyone is wondering. No idea what brand of tubes new + bikes come with, if any.
    Pierced from below, souls of my treacherous past

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Tubes seem to work great for you in your location so I guess I might not bother with it either if I were in your shoes.


    It's different where I am though, based on personal experience and also observations while working in shops I can say for certain that tubeless is superior for at least 9/10 mountain bikers in the southwest, and I'm sure probably the rest of the western us too.

    I still carry a tube just in case but instead of having to use it once or twice a month it's more like once every 3 years now, and if/when I start carrying a plug kit I might never need it.

    If I were forced to choose between having either disc brakes or tubeless wheels it would be a tough decision.

    Oh c'mon man you have to choose disc brakes right? Tubes are not going to land you in the hospital like rim brakes could, and eventually would.

    For anyone putting tubes in + tires or at least 2.4 tires, do not buy the Kenda 2.4-2.7 tubes. First off, they have no removable valve stem, which sucks because it makes it that much harder to add sealant. Second, I could not even get them to hook up properly to my floor pump and had to use a tighter-seal mini pump to get air in. BTW it's in the back of a 2.35, not in front and not in a + tire. But they still suck regardless.
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  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I can't believe there are 160 replies about tubes in + tires!!!

    I thought it would be one of those zero reply threads where everyone is thinking DUH of course everyone goes tubeless, and didn't even bother replying.
    Yeah, it seems there are a few opinions / experiences amongst the cycling population.

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  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Oh c'mon man you have to choose disc brakes right? Tubes are not going to land you in the hospital like rim brakes could, and eventually would.

    I rode rim brakes for years, still do on the road and never have been hospitalized due to them. Actually my v-brakes stopped just fine but I do like discs better.

    It would honestly be a difficult decision for me and I'm glad I don't have to make it.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  66. #166
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    Anyone choosing to ride with tubes in the plus size?-threads-dead-baby-threads-dead.jpg
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