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  1. #1
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    29+ tire choices

    I see two 29+ tire choices (Knard and Dirt Wizard) on the Surly site. Are these the only choices at this time?

  2. #2
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    Dirt Wizard in 29+ flavor is not available yet, so the Knard is it for now, I suppose you have two choices, 27 or 120 tpi.

  3. #3
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    Vee Rubber has a 29+ tire in their marketing info, but I haven't see one on anyone's bike.
    Safe riding,

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coloradoxj13 View Post
    Dirt Wizard in 29+ flavor is not available yet, so the Knard is it for now, I suppose you have two choices, 27 or 120 tpi.
    The ETA that folks in the Surly sub-forum are talking about for the 29+ DW is August. I want to believe that's wrong, but it may be bang on. For the moment there's nothing to do, but rock your Knards and wait.
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  5. #5
    squish, squish in da fish
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    real nice clark! i hope they don't release the DW at the end of a riding season. that's just silly marketing

  6. #6
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    I agree. Announcing a product in Sept 2013 and delivering in Sept 2014 is a bit [actually a lot] lame.

    Having said that the wet parts of the year are when many riders want to switch out their Knards for something more aggressive so a fall release isn't totally goofy from that perspective.

    I'm not suggesting anyone actually planned things that way.
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  7. #7
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    true that, but you could also have 'em for the earlier wet season of lets say spring.

  8. #8
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    Dumb question. what's the difference between fat tires and 29+

  9. #9
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    One is slow and one is fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNin9r View Post
    Dumb question. what's the difference between fat tires and 29+

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    One is slow and one is fast.
    thanks! no seriously...

  11. #11
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    29+ is made to go on a 29er (622mm bead set diameter, or BSD) rim, and is about 3" wide.

    Fat tires are typically made to go on a 26" (559mm BSD) rim and are in the range of 3.8" ~ 5" wide. Because of the wider tire, the outer diameter is close to that of a 29er.

    They're also slow

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNin9r View Post
    thanks! no seriously...

  12. #12
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    haha awesome. rep for you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNin9r View Post
    Dumb question. what's the difference between fat tires and 29+
    With 4" or 5" tires you can ride some soft terrain like deep snow and sand that would stop a normal MTB. 29+ tires really don't go anywhere a normal 29er couldn't go, but they provide good traction and a bit better ride through say gravel or sandy section on a normal MTB trail. 29+ also gives you great roll through tech sections due to how tall the tire is.
    Safe riding,

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  14. #14
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    that and they are at an od greater than 29 which slackens your head a lil bit. a fun tire, so not to be taken seriously

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    One is slow and one is fast.
    I actually agree with this statement. 29+ is the next 27.5 once people figure out they are 26" wheels with marginally taller tread. And people will get tired of 15-18 pounds wheels once the novelty wears off or if you need to climb hills.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    I actually agree with this statement. 29+ is the next 27.5 once people figure out they are 26" wheels with marginally taller tread. And people will get tired of 15-18 pounds wheels once the novelty wears off or if you need to climb hills.
    your post is obscure. 29+ is a 29er tire, not a 27.5 or a 26 w/ a taller tread. the tread is 4" taller than a 26. its a 29er high volume tire, thee end. i climb hills with them no problem so i think you might need to HTFU

  17. #17
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    I think GSJ was making two points:

    - there's only a small difference between 26" and 27.5", about the same as between 29 and 29+. So similar to all those punters who saw 27.5 as revolutionary, the current crop of 29er riders may see 29+ as the Next Big Thing.

    - or coming at it from the other way, people will realize their fat bikes are too slow and ponderous for everyday riding, so they'll downsize, but still want some simple cush. So... 29+.

    Of course, what's stopping this is the fact that there's currently only one tire and two frames that work with 29+.

    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    your post is obscure. 29+ is a 29er tire, not a 27.5 or a 26 w/ a taller tread. the tread is 4" taller than a 26. its a 29er high volume tire, thee end. i climb hills with them no problem so i think you might need to HTFU

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    - or coming at it from the other way, people will realize their fat bikes are too slow and ponderous for everyday riding, so they'll downsize, but still want some simple cush. So... 29+.

    Of course, what's stopping this is the fact that there's currently only one tire and two frames that work with 29+.
    I posted the info below in another thread. There are quite a few 29+ compatible frames. The tires are the issue.

    There are tons of 29er tires so if you have a fatbike and want a faster dirt ride no need to really worry about 29+ just roll with "normal" 29er rubber.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    29+ stuff....

    29+ Tires

    Surly Knard 29 x 3 [available now]
    Surly Dirt Wizard 29 x 2.75 [summer 2014??]
    Vee Rubber Vee8 29 x 3 [available ???]

    29+ Rims

    Surly Rabbit Hole 29 x 50mm [available now]
    Velocity Dually 29 x 45mm [available now]
    Velocity Blunt 35 29 x 35mm [available now]
    Derby Carbon 29 x 35mm [available now]
    Schlick North Paw 29 x 47mm [available now]
    Stan's 29 x 50mm rim [available ??]

    29+ Bikes

    Surly Krampus
    Surly ECR
    Some fatbikes
    -- Pugsley
    -- Ti Mukluk [pre-2013]
    Carver Gnarvester
    Muru Mungo
    RSD Bikes
    Lenz Sport Fat-Moth
    Travers Bikes Rudy Fat
    38 Frameworks Mastadon
    Singular Rooster

    All the custom frame builders can do a 29+ if they are interested in the format and design challenges.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I posted the info below in another thread. There are quite a few 29+ compatible frames. The tires are the issue.
    Add the REEBdonkadonk to that list of 29+ compatible frames
    Tested: REEB Reebdonkadonk Mountain Flyer Magazine

  20. #20
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    After a few 'attempts' of riding my Krampus in snow, I find that test ride/report a bit questionable. Even misleading, maybe outright deceiving. Comparing it to a fat bike and a normal 29 with skinny aggressive tires, my opinion is the knard is the worst of both worlds. It behaves pretty much as it does in muddy/wet conditions; worthless.

  21. #21
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    Another to add to the list.
    Just spotted in twitter, a maxxis chronicle.
    29x3

  22. #22
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    no date though, huh?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by octavius View Post
    Another to add to the list.
    Just spotted in twitter, a maxxis chronicle.
    29x3
    Image courtesy of On One's Brant Richards
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 29+ tire choices-maxxis-chronicle-29-.jpg  

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  24. #24
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    thanks GT, just wish it was a better pic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    thanks GT, just wish it was a better pic.
    From here:

    Taipei Cycle Show First Look: Maxxis Mammoth and Chronicle Fat Bike and 29+ Tires



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  26. #26
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    That tread looks nice. I'll definitely keep my eyes open for some user reviews when they get out into the wild.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That tread looks nice. I'll definitely keep my eyes open for some user reviews when they get out into the wild.
    Maxxis is saying fall.

    I'm saying, "must haz now."
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky View Post
    Maxxis is saying fall.

    I'm saying, "must haz now."
    LOL - I have learned my lesson. I'm thinking spring 2015!
    Safe riding,

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    After a few 'attempts' of riding my Krampus in snow, I find that test ride/report a bit questionable. Even misleading, maybe outright deceiving. Comparing it to a fat bike and a normal 29 with skinny aggressive tires, my opinion is the knard is the worst of both worlds. It behaves pretty much as it does in muddy/wet conditions; worthless.
    I agree. Can't wait until some better tires come out so I can steer in the snow again.

  30. #30
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    Vee Tire Trax Fatty 29+

    Here is another from the Taipei show:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 29+ tire choices-trax-fatty.jpg  


  31. #31
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    damn i wish i would've held out a little bit before buying the knard. might be a knard for sale here soon & still has all whiskers on it, maybe 30 miles.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    damn i wish i would've held out a little bit before buying the knard. might be a knard for sale here soon & still has all whiskers on it, maybe 30 miles.
    Unless you can actually find these new tires for sale I'd keep the Knard. No telling when they'll be ready for sale. Just look at the 29+ Dirt Wizard.
    Safe riding,

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  33. #33
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    yeah i know, pretty soon it will be back to the dirt and the knard will be shelved for a bit. i'm rolling a mid fat front on my xc ht on some duallys i built several weeks ago. the duallys are going on my nimble 9 w/o the knard. i guess i could still roll the knard on my p35's though. just thinking out loud sorry


    that chronicle does look nice though

  34. #34
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    Any have updates on the maxxis and vee rubber 29er plus.
    Especially the chronicle

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozisnipe View Post
    Any have updates on the maxxis and vee rubber 29er plus.
    Especially the chronicle
    I haven't seen anything hit the market. I think we'd see quite a few people posting when they do. So far nothing.
    Safe riding,

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  36. #36
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    29+ tire choices

    I'm awaiting 27.5+ as I think that would be perfect compliment for my fatbike

  37. #37
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    Here's my quick initial thoughts on the 3.0 Maxxis Chronicle.

    Bad Idea Racing: The Chroni(what)cles of Gnarnia



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  38. #38
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    mmm does it offer better cornering or braking grip? those are my issues with my knards. nothing quite like the sound of a 3" wide tire skidding into a tight corner.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    mmm does it offer better cornering or braking grip? those are my issues with my knards. nothing quite like the sound of a 3" wide tire skidding into a tight corner.
    It was kinda slick out there, being all the rain and humidity. That said, it never let me down. Pushed it as hard as I was willing to and never slipped unexpectedly. Did feel a bit like driving a four wheel drive truck, but as would be expected with this much rubber pulling the front end around.
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  40. #40
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    Well glad to see this tire coming one step closer to reality.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky View Post
    It was kinda slick out there, being all the rain and humidity. That said, it never let me down. Pushed it as hard as I was willing to and never slipped unexpectedly. Did feel a bit like driving a four wheel drive truck, but as would be expected with this much rubber pulling the front end around.
    thanks dude!

  42. #42
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    Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3" tires are out. Anybody picked up a set or have some real world experience on these?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3" tires are out. Anybody picked up a set or have some real world experience on these?
    Available where???

  44. #44
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    QBP. Your LBS can get them.

  45. #45
    74 & 29 pilot
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    I have one coming in the mail tomorrow and a Gnarvester frame next week. I was thinking of running it on front and will replace the Knard on the front of my Les to try it out. I'll post some pics tomorrow night.

    Bought it from AEBike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post
    I have one coming in the mail tomorrow and a Gnarvester frame next week. I was thinking of running it on front and will replace the Knard on the front of my Les to try it out. I'll post some pics tomorrow night.

    Bought it from AEBike.
    thats where i ordered mine from. should be here end of the week. i hope they are more durable the 120tpi knards. i love the knards but hate their delicate sidewalls.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    QBP. Your LBS can get them.
    I see them listed at some stores now. AEBike seems to have the best price.

    Anyone know if/when the 27.5+ version will be available? I've got a project just waiting for these!

  48. #48
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    Looks like Bontrager is getting into the game too.

    29+ tire choices-10556316_10204274436318372_1006704539956557180_n.jpg
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  49. #49
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    The more 29+ tires the merrier.
    Safe riding,

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  50. #50
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    anyone know what version of the vee rubber tire AE is selling, can't seem to tell from their site?

    here are the three models listed on the vee rubber website for the trax fatty:
    $100- 293.0 (WB, 72 TPI) (Weight: 1025)
    $110- 293.0 (FB, 72 TPI) (Weight: 950)
    $120- 293.0 (FB, 120 TPI) (Weight: 920)

    tread pattern looks decent (though i'd like a tire with deeper knobs for fall/winter). I liked all the regular vee rubber tires i have tried so far so i am hoping this is a winner.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    anyone know what version of the vee rubber tire AE is selling, can't seem to tell from their site?

    here are the three models listed on the vee rubber website for the trax fatty:
    $100- 293.0 (WB, 72 TPI) (Weight: 1025)
    $110- 293.0 (FB, 72 TPI) (Weight: 950)
    $120- 293.0 (FB, 120 TPI) (Weight: 920)

    tread pattern looks decent (though i'd like a tire with deeper knobs for fall/winter). I liked all the regular vee rubber tires i have tried so far so i am hoping this is a winner.
    It's the last one on your list. Says right in the listing, 120tpi folding bead.

  52. #52
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    doh reading... I FAIL.

    thanks!!!

  53. #53
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    Just caught wind of those last night.

    Here are the specs:

    FT/RR/PR : Dual
    Size : 29 x 3.00
    TPI : 120
    Durometer : 62a/60a
    Bead : Aramid
    Type : TLR/Clincher
    Color : Black
    Weight : 850g

    And here's a pic:



    The bad news? ETA of 12/8/14.

    That said, I've been riding the Chronicles for a ~month. I tend to reserve this bike/these tires for mellower trips where float is necessary and techy chunk isn't as prevalent. So far so good, especially the tubelessness.

  54. #54
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    Any idea on the measured width of the bontrager tire? How do you like the maxis tire? What width rim are you using with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Just caught wind of those last night.

    Here are the specs:

    FT/RR/PR : Dual
    Size : 29 x 3.00
    TPI : 120
    Durometer : 62a/60a
    Bead : Aramid
    Type : TLR/Clincher
    Color : Black
    Weight : 850g

    And here's a pic:



    The bad news? ETA of 12/8/14.

    That said, I've been riding the Chronicles for a ~month. I tend to reserve this bike/these tires for mellower trips where float is necessary and techy chunk isn't as prevalent. So far so good, especially the tubelessness.
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If I told you I saw a unicorn ****ing a leprechaun trail side, you'd probably be suspicious.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Just caught wind of those last night.

    Here are the specs:

    FT/RR/PR : Dual
    Size : 29 x 3.00
    TPI : 120
    Durometer : 62a/60a
    Bead : Aramid
    Type : TLR/Clincher
    Color : Black
    Weight : 850g
    Thanks Mikesee! That is sweet; I love Bonti tires!

    Got the Fat Trax today and will mount it later on my Derby 35mm wide rim to see if it fits in my Fox 32 that has a 29/3.0 Knard in it now.


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  56. #56
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    So, I realize these are on a 35/29mm rim, but the size of the Fatty Trax is a little disappointing compared to the Knard on the same rim. The only good thing about the smaller size is that it actually fit in the back of my Les with 2.5mm on each side! If I had a few more millimeters on each side, I'd cancel my Gnarvester; Plenty of room for the diameter of the tire. Also, the Fatty clears on the fork bridge by a few more millimeters. Both tires were measured at 30 psi on the exact same rim, right after mounted and before being ridden.

    Knard 3.0 on Derby wide rim:
    knob to knob


    casing


    Fatty Trax on Derby wide rim:
    knob to knob


    casing


    2014 Fox 32 Float 120mm clearance:




    Comparison of the two on Derby wide rims:



    So, my tire came in 40gr lighter than advertised, but I think it's because they shorted me on tread. The casing is quite wider than the tread, and will grow even more on a 50mm wide rim. It will be a good, fast rolling rear tire on my Derby's until I build some 50mm rims; When someone makes some carbon hoops. The Trax Fatty, was a little tougher to get on the rim, but not really hard. They also seated and held air without Stan's, which the Knard would not hold air due to leaking around the bead.

    Can't wait to build my Gnarvester and take full advantage of this setup!
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  57. #57
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    Have you ridden the trax yet?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan GSR View Post
    Have you ridden the trax yet?
    Not really, just on the street. I did take it on a fairly steep pea sized loose gravel walking path at a really slow speed and a relatively high torque; No slippage.

    Not sure I want to ride it on my Les on real trails, as the clearance is pretty minimal.
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  59. #59
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    Im interested as a front tire

  60. #60
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    No, I mounted it on front, but the narrower tread patch doesn't seem like it will have very good bite when leaning. Maybe, when I get some 50mm rims.

    I could be wrong though, as I am most of the time.
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  61. #61
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    It's bigger than the ardent 2.4 I'm also considering

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    anxious to see these mounted on a 50 or 45mm rim. They look more aggressive than I had pictured, and I question whether anybody needs knobs pointed 90* to the right or left, but it does seem to have a pronounced shoulder where the knobbage stops.

  63. #63
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    MTB Pilot: I can't tell from your pictures, but is the Knard brand new as well, and just mounted? Just asking because new tires will grow after a couple of days of being aired up, and tires this big could easily grow 3mm to 5mm wider and taller.

  64. #64
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    Mike - do you have any idea when the Chronicle will be available for sale?

  65. #65
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    Question for those of you who have been following the 29+ tire saga closely...I'm running 120tpi Knards on my Krampus at the moment. For the most part I am happy, but there are some scenarios where I wouldn't mind some extra bite...particularly at the side of the tire. Initial reports about the 26" Dirt Wizard are that it's got an aggressive tread with great traction at the expense of being slow rolling.

    My 29+ rig mostly sees touring use so I don't want a slow rolling tire.

    I'm hoping that there is a compromise option that has decent side knobs without going fully knobby - which in a 3" tire is overkill for my needs.

    Any thoughts on which 29+ tires might fit the bill?
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Question for those of you who have been following the 29+ tire saga closely...I'm running 120tpi Knards on my Krampus at the moment. For the most part I am happy, but there are some scenarios where I wouldn't mind some extra bite...particularly at the side of the tire. Initial reports about the 26" Dirt Wizard are that it's got an aggressive tread with great traction at the expense of being slow rolling.

    My 29+ rig mostly sees touring use so I don't want a slow rolling tire.

    I'm hoping that there is a compromise option that has decent side knobs without going fully knobby - which in a 3" tire is overkill for my needs.

    Any thoughts on which 29+ tires might fit the bill?
    FWIW, the current 26" Dirt Wizard tread isn't the same as the upcoming 29". At least that's what I've been told. Casing will be bigger too--full 3" instead of 2.75".

    Trax Fatty's seem to have decent side knobs. Haven't ridden them yet.

    Chronicle seems to be the best overall combo of speed and bite that I've actually been able to see/fondle/ride.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    FWIW, the current 26" Dirt Wizard tread isn't the same as the upcoming 29". At least that's what I've been told. Casing will be bigger too--full 3" instead of 2.75".

    Trax Fatty's seem to have decent side knobs. Haven't ridden them yet.

    Chronicle seems to be the best overall combo of speed and bite that I've actually been able to see/fondle/ride.


    Thanks Mike. I'll keep an eye out for the Chronicle. I have enough life left in my Knards to get me through the rest of the year.

    Interesting to hear your comments on a different version of the DWs for 29+. Hopefully we'll see 'em this year.
    Safe riding,

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  68. #68
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    I want to know about casing thickness? Are all these new tires as wimpy in the casing
    as the Knards? Judging by the weight I would think so. Ill just stick with the Minions I think.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    MTB Pilot: I can't tell from your pictures, but is the Knard brand new as well, and just mounted? Just asking because new tires will grow after a couple of days of being aired up, and tires this big could easily grow 3mm to 5mm wider and taller.
    Yes, both tires were new and measured about 10 mins after being inflated to 30 psi. The Knard has about 12 miles on it now. I will re measure both of these tires after I build the Gnarvester and get some miles on the tires.

    The casing on the Trax Fatty felt quite a bit sturdier than the Knard.
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  70. #70
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    Rode my Vee Trax fatty last night and enjoyed it. It was moist/wet here and also dry in parts. A good overall test. Set up tubeless on my Duallies but burped and burped and burped until I was rolling back to the car on a half aired drag tire.

    Grip was great. Tubeless setup was great. No complaints at all except with the Velocity rim and the tubeless set up. Will get tubes tonight before I head out for SSUSA.

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  71. #71
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    That's what I figured. For where I ride and how I ride Ill stick with Minions.
    Thanks

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixgeardan View Post
    I want to know about casing thickness? Are all these new tires as wimpy in the casing
    as the Knards? Judging by the weight I would think so. Ill just stick with the Minions I think.
    Nothing in 29+ will ever approach your Minion casings for durability. If they did no one would buy them because they'd be 1500g+.

    That said, both Trax Fatty and Chronicle casings seem much improved over the paper-thin Knards.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Grip was great. Tubeless setup was great. No complaints at all except with the Velocity rim and the tubeless set up.
    Hahaha! I feel your pain on the duallys.

    Vikb the chronicle looks like the way to go if they ever release them. Im very intersted in that bonty. that pattern looks like a fast rolling tire.

  74. #74
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    Chronicle Review, hopefully they will be available soon

    First Look! – Maxxis Chronicle 29+ Tire | FAT-BIKE.COM
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  75. #75
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    Mtbpilot those tires actually make derbys look kinda normal. I know on my 650b derbys the tires look tiny compared to the rim.

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    A width of 2.7"/69mm is just about right for many standard 29er forks which allows for many more potential customers. I don't really get why no one made that size before 29+ was a thing. My current Vee Rubber Mission 2.4 actually has a 2.25/57mm casing on a 21mm ID rim but my Flyxii FK-8 rigid fork has room for 70mm. Big 2.4 tires get up to about 63mm on a 30mm ID rim but that is still short of what I want.

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    Got my trax fattys mounted up yesterday. Took them out for a spin this morning. The narrow tread pattern gives up nothing to the knards. They roll just as good and have just as much if not more cornering grip. Mine weighed in at 900 grams dead on. On my duallies they measured 2.75 block to block and 2.95 at the casing. I set them up tubeless aired up to 50psi and let them sit overnight to stretch them out. Settled on 14psi front and 16 rear. I will drop down to 12 front and 14 rear on the next ride. The sidewall on them is much beefier then 120tpi knards.

  78. #78
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    got a couple more rides in since mounting them up. found that they are a little more picky with pressure then the knards. ive settled on 13f 15r. i rode the second outing with 12 and 14. at 12 the front would burp ever so slightly on the dually when standing and cranking up hill. my krampus is setup ss. this eventually left me in around 8 psi by the end of my 15 mile loop. at this super low pressure the rolling resistance ramped way up and felt like i was dragging a tank. also at lower pressures they tend to have an auto steer effect. this goes away at higher pressures. at the 13/15 combo they roll fast and grip really well in the turns but ride a little harsher then the knard. overall im happy with this tire. at 30$ cheaper, 100g lighter plus the tr casing Vee has given us a really good alternative. i still plan on trying the Chronicle when it comes out.

    also i weigh 220lb all geared up. for what its worth

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    ...

    That said, both Trax Fatty and Chronicle casings seem much improved over the paper-thin Knards.
    WEEEELLLLLLL... Not so fast. 43 miles, 24 on tame, loose trails and 19 on rocky, chunky, loose trails. Last night on the way back in riding fairly fast speed on a solid rock section, just a few loose rocks around, I tore a hole in the the casing and knob. I'm guessing that the loss of air caused the small dent in rim and pinch hole in the bead. I was running 18 PSI which had been tested for 10 miles prior to this event on REALLY chunky terrain and was no where close to bottoming the tire to rim. I was running 14.5 on the tame trails. I weigh somewhere between 205-210 lbs depending on what I'm carrying. Pretty big hole in the casing and torn knob right next to it. Stan's filled the hole, but couldn't get the bead to stop leaking. I think the rim is fine; There is no cracking, stress fracturing or de-lamination. I'm happy it was the HD version of the Derby!

    So, the Knard on the front has ridden all of the same terrain, over the same chunk, and no problems yet. Vee Rubber's Silica, SMILICA! I'm also seeing chord on the side of the casing where the seem is... I'm giving this tire a FAIL for my riding... I doesn't even measure 3 inches, even on somebody's wider rim earlier, and the casing doesn't stand up to rocky terrain. Will the 72TPI be better at withstanding cuts in the casing?

    What's your opinions about warranty action? Is it just the way things go and I'm just unlucky or is a less than 50 mile 3.0 tire with Silica suppose to handle rocky terrain?

    HURRY UP MAXXIS AND BONTRAGER!!! I need tires that were actually meant to be put on a mountain bike and not a beach cruiser!!!!!

    ALSO: Look at the last few pics to see the cornering knobs starting to disintegrate; Vee must be in business with Schwalbe







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  80. #80
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    I destroyed a new tire on ride 3 or 5. Bummer, but putting a rock through the tread isn't a warranty issue any more than crashing and denting a frame is. I tried to save it, but in the end the damage was too severe to fix. So I bought a new tire.

    Same brand/model.

    No problems with the new one.

    Sometimes stuff just happens.
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  81. #81
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    Yeah, that's what my thinking is... Just had some preconceived notion that 29+ tires would be much more durable, since with bigger tires the idea is to be able to ride any terrain. That is my last Vee Rubber tire though. My LBS found the 72 TPI through J&B, but I'm not gonna bother since it doesn't measure 3 inches anyway. Such a waist of $80!

    I ordered the 24TPI and another 120TPI in the mean time. Will the 24TPI steel bead set up tubeless on hookless bead rim?

    Can't wait for the Chronicle and the Bonti Chupacabra to come out! Guitar Ted Productions: News Season Part 4: Tires V2 Trek 2015 mountain bikes - part I - BikeRadar
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post
    Just had some preconceived notion that 29+ tires would be much more durable, since with bigger tires the idea is to be able to ride any terrain.
    Since bigger tires are...well...bigger they make them thinner to keep the weight down...otherwise they'd be so burly it wouldn't be much fun to pedal.

    One incident of rock damage to one specific tire doesn't mean anything. It's totally random. Now if that happens to you 3 times in a short period of time your terrain is just too gnarly for that particular tire and your riding style.
    Safe riding,

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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Since bigger tires are...well...bigger they make them thinner to keep the weight down...otherwise they'd be so burly it wouldn't be much fun to pedal.
    This. Folks wouldn't want a 29 X 3.0" tire that weighed 1500 grams, but it would be a tire that would hold up to rocks and abuse much better. When the weight limits get pushed, bad things might happen. They definitely will happen more often than if the tires weighed more.

    One incident of rock damage to one specific tire doesn't mean anything. It's totally random. Now if that happens to you 3 times in a short period of time your terrain is just too gnarly for that particular tire and your riding style.
    I get why this upsets folks though. I mean, if you have three failures, that's $240.00 down the tubes! Hard to self fund that kind of research.
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    I get why this upsets folks though. I mean, if you have three failures, that's $240.00 down the tubes! Hard to self fund that kind of research.
    Sure, but looking at it the other way 1 incident of anything has no meaning for analysis purposes.

    My GF got 2 or 3 flats in a 1-2 week period on her commuter bike and wanted to swap the fast/light/supple tires I put on that bike to maximize her low leg power for some heavy/stiff/slow "flat resistant" rubber. She rationalized 2-3 flats over that period meant the tires were just not up to the job and she'd be fixing flats non-stop.

    I told her even that many flats doesn't mean anything just stay the course. 2 years later and no more flats.

    Crazy thing is if she had bought the flat resistant tires she would probably also have no flats and would convince herself they were the reason and never go back to supple tires. Despite the fact that wouldn't be true.

    Lighter/supple tires are really beneficial if you are weaker or you are riding longer/harder relative to your potential. It's worth the odd puncture/problem to stick with them.

    At the very least be aware that one problem is not something you can draw any conclusions from about the tire and it's applicability to your riding needs.

    I don't like spending money replacing tires early either. Sometimes it happens though and that's just mountain biking.
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Sure, but looking at it the other way 1 incident of anything has no meaning for analysis purposes.

    ...

    I told her even that many flats doesn't mean anything just stay the course. 2 years later and no more flats.

    ...

    ...

    At the very least be aware that one problem is not something you can draw any conclusions from about the tire and it's applicability to your riding needs.

    ...
    SOOOO, which number or how many flats do you have to have for it to mean something? To you it's not 1-3; Maybe it's 4?

    Saying a hole in a tire and knob doesn't mean anything is quite naive in my opinion. There's a 50% chance that this was just unlucky and a fluke, AND a 50% chance that the casing and rubber compound on this tire just can't hold up to rugged, rocky terrain.

    I've run some tires for years that have never had flats in this terrain, let a lone a hole torn in them, and I've had others that ended in the same manner 25-60 miles in; I didn't buy those again.

    Again, its a 50/50 chance that either it was a fluke or this tire simply won't hold up in my terrain, but saying that 1 hole doesn't mean anything, is denying the FACT that this tire got a hole and tore a knob in this terrain. I'm not willing to spend another $160-200 to find out if flukes come in threes.

    The reality is that this tire punctured in rocky terrain in the first 50 miles. Do with the facts as you like, but don't deny reality.
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post

    The reality is that this tire punctured in rocky terrain in the first 50 miles. Do with the facts as you like, but don't deny reality.
    I'm not denying the incident. I'm saying you are extrapolating meaning into it that is based on nothing.

    The following situations could all be true based on the one data point you have:

    - you'll never have another problem with that brand/model of tire
    - you'll have a few problems with that brand/model of tire
    - you'll have lots of problems with that brand/model of tire

    Your 50/50 number is totally made up fantasy. It's not based on anything real.

    Now as a consumer you can do whatever you want. Never buy that tire again. Never buy that brand again. It's a free world.

    Just don't tell yourself that the decision is based on a reasonable understanding of the situation.

    It's not like I am making this idea up. It's basic statistics.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Since bigger tires are...well...bigger they make them thinner to keep the weight down...otherwise they'd be so burly it wouldn't be much fun to pedal.

    One incident of rock damage to one specific tire doesn't mean anything. It's totally random. Now if that happens to you 3 times in a short period of time your terrain is just too gnarly for that particular tire and your riding style.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm not denying the incident. I'm saying you are extrapolating meaning into it that is based on nothing.

    The following situations could all be true based on the one data point you have:

    - you'll never have another problem with that brand/model of tire
    - you'll have a few problems with that brand/model of tire
    - you'll have lots of problems with that brand/model of tire

    Your 50/50 number is totally made up fantasy. It's not based on anything real.

    Now as a consumer you can do whatever you want. Never buy that tire again. Never buy that brand again. It's a free world.

    Just don't tell yourself that the decision is based on a reasonable understanding of the situation.

    It's not like I am making this idea up. It's basic statistics.
    So your saying it's a random fluke the tire got a hole in it, or it got a hole in it because of the rocks? Wait, or both?

    How do I, the rider of this terrain in which the tire got a hole in it, not have a reasonable understanding of the situation?

    How is 50/50 fantasy; Should it be 25/25/25/25? Maybe 75/25...
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post
    So your saying it's a random fluke the tire got a hole in it, or it got a hole in it because of the rocks? Wait, or both?

    How is 50/50 fantasy; Should it be 25/25/25/25? Maybe 75/25...
    That's the point. One incident on a new tire doesn't give you enough information to know what's going.

    The fantasy part is assuming you know.

    Anyways I'll stop there.

    I hope you have better luck with whatever 29+ tires you run in the future.
    Safe riding,

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  89. #89
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    Your right, in that I don't have enough information, but I have plenty of experience that let's me make an educated guess. I made an assumption on the 2.25 Racing Ralph pacestar with SS when the first one, I bought two at the same time, had a hole torn in the casing between knobs, and tried the second one with the same results. I thought the first one was a fluke, but I assumed wrong. I had the same thing happen with 2 Maxxis Ardent 27.5x2.3 tires also.

    Like I said, I'm not assuming I know for sure, but I'm making an educated guess, based on my past experience that this tires casing isn't going to hold up for my style of riding, in all of the possible terrain that I ride in AZ. I'm also not willing to spend $80+ again on the same tire to find out if I'm right or wrong... right now. Who knows, I may go down the line and have bad results with all the available tires and come full circle back to the Trax.

    For now, I'll give the Knard, in both TPIs, a shot on the rear and see how it goes while I wait for the Maxxis and Bonti tires to come available.

    Thanks for your opinions, pointed debate and hopes for my luck to improve!

    Til next time...
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  90. #90
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    confirmed today
    vee trax fatty fits manitou tower pro on a stans arch ex

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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post
    So, I realize these are on a 35/29mm rim, but the size of the Fatty Trax is a little disappointing compared to the Knard on the same rim. The only good thing about the smaller size is that it actually fit in the back of my Les with 2.5mm on each side! If I had a few more millimeters on each side, I'd cancel my Gnarvester; Plenty of room for the diameter of the tire. Also, the Fatty clears on the fork bridge by a few more millimeters. Both tires were measured at 30 psi on the exact same rim, right after mounted and before being ridden.
    I'm surprised we don't see a few 29 x 2.7" tires come out as there are a bunch of non-29+ frames and forks that could fit these out in the world so they's have access to a wider market than a true 3" 29+ tire.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm surprised we don't see a few 29 x 2.7" tires come out as there are a bunch of non-29+ frames and forks that could fit these out in the world so they's have access to a wider market than a true 3" 29+ tire.
    While that may work, this very idea is what drives the so called "B+" idea. Bigger volume, 2.8"-ish width, just slightly less diameter than a 2.3" 29"er tire, and the ability to fit a plethora of 29"er frames, (theoretically).

    The tires and rims are just getting out there and soon I will be finding out if any of this makes sense. Gotta go build some wheels now......
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    While that may work, this very idea is what drives the so called "B+" idea. Bigger volume, 2.8"-ish width, just slightly less diameter than a 2.3" 29"er tire, and the ability to fit a plethora of 29"er frames, (theoretically).

    The tires and rims are just getting out there and soon I will be finding out if any of this makes sense. Gotta go build some wheels now......
    I'm sure it will be a good solution for some people.

    The benefit with 29+ is two fold:

    1. wide low pressure tires for cush and traction

    2. very tall tires for amazing roll through the gnar

    B+ will give you #1, but won't give you benefit #2.

    If B+ means you can keep the same frame/fork that could be worth it for a bunch of people, but I do see it as not getting the full benefits of 29+. OTOH if the B+ tires are lighter maybe that will be worth it for folks having to accelerate their bikes a lot.

    I'll keep an eye out for your reviews comparing 29+ to B+.
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    The B+ makes the most sense to me at 3.0, 3.25, & 3.5 tire widths where the diameter can reach 29inches. The WTB tire GT is reporting on is a nice effort, but according tho his website, it's not really very wide, it's not really close to a 2.3 29inch tires diameter, and it's really not particularly light at 900 grams. Plus, we'll have to wait and see how many bikes it can actually fit with the wider rims needed to maximize the tire size.

    I'm guessing there are going to be some B+ dedicated bikes coming out in the next year, so I think it will be cool to see where the concept goes.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    I'm guessing there are going to be some B+ dedicated bikes coming out in the next year, so I think it will be cool to see where the concept goes.
    More choices are more betterer!

    The good thing with fatbikes being popular is that the idea of a 3" tire seems totally reasonable.
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The good thing with fatbikes being popular is that the idea of a 3" tire seems totally reasonable.
    Certainly better than the days when XC racing dictated everything in the biz.

  98. #98
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    There is already a 2.9 tire full 29" diameter on the way.
    A bike by any other name is still a bike.

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    `So, the B+ tire would be perfect for the guy who was dissing 29ers when he got his new 27.5 bike and now wishes he had kept his mouth shut.

  100. #100
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    lol, faux 29 is what a b+ should be called.

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