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Thread: 27.5+ Tires

  1. #1
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    27.5+ Tires



    Just starting a thread to discuss the new B+ tire format that is starting to gather steam.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    interesting indeed.

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    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    My pair of WTB Trailblazers landed last week. Mounted to 40mm Derby rims they measure 60mm tread width and 70mm casing width. They fit in my Jones Ti Spaceframe with plenty of clearance.

    Trying to decide if I should ride them or wait for the Vee Trax Fatty. I just heard they will be released in the next week or two, and should be wider and lighter than the Trailblazer.
    27.5+ Tires-trailblazer-3.jpg27.5+ Tires-trailblazer-1.jpg27.5+ Tires-jones-trailblazer-3.jpg27.5+ Tires-jones-trailblazer-1.jpg

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    For those looking in on 27.5+ for the first time, Panaracer and Vee both have tires coming in this size as well.

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    what is the name of the 27.5+ Panaracer tire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    what is the name of the 27.5+ Panaracer tire?
    Fat B Nimble, same as their fat bike and 29+ tire. They announced the 27.5+ and 29+ versions at Interbike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    what is the name of the 27.5+ Panaracer tire?
    FatBnimble. Panaracer is making that tire in a 29x3 and a 27.5x3.

    Edit: Bikeny beat me to the board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    FatBnimble. Panaracer is making that tire in a 29x3 and a 27.5x3.

    Edit: Bikeny beat me to the board.
    which makes you slow like tom brady

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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    which makes you slow like tom brady
    Do I get his wife too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Do I get his wife too?
    for a nominal fee sure.

  12. #12
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    cool post on WTB's FB page. Two bikes at IB with Trailblazers. One from 44 bikes and the other a Jones Spaceframe. WTB - Rad Bikes of Interbike | WTB

    On the Jones, with an eccentric BB he just rotated the BB to the top and eliminated most of the 6-10 mm BB drop that results from using the 650B/Trailblazer wheel. Pretty smart!

    mike

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    Now, I'm going to have to hold onto my 650 wheelset for awhile!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    My pair of WTB Trailblazers landed last week. Mounted to 40mm Derby rims they measure 60mm tread width and 70mm casing width. They fit in my Jones Ti Spaceframe with plenty of clearance.
    What's the BB height of your Jones bike with these wheels on it?
    Thanks.
    Great prices - some sweet vintage stuff: http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...product=101010

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    On the Jones, with an eccentric BB he just rotated the BB to the top and eliminated most of the 6-10 mm BB drop that results from using the 650B/Trailblazer wheel. Pretty smart!
    The ebb helps, but only if you aren't already riding with it set for highest position, especially since the Jones already has a low bb height. Some bikes are on the verge of being too low for certain types of riding as it is. This tire may not suit chunkier riding where riders rely on clearance, but that type of riding is not what the Trailblazer designed for so personal tastes and terrain are likely to play a bigger factor than an ebb on whether this tire will work for riders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    The ebb helps, but only if you aren't already riding with it set for highest position, especially since the Jones already has a low bb height. Some bikes are on the verge of being too low for certain types of riding as it is. This tire may not suit chunkier riding where riders rely on clearance, but that type of riding is not what the Trailblazer designed for so personal tastes and terrain are likely to play a bigger factor than an ebb on whether this tire will work for riders.
    I'm actually hoping the Trailblazer will work well on low speed chunk at lower pressures.
    I will have to be pretty aware of BB height. We will see...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    My pair of WTB Trailblazers landed last week. Mounted to 40mm Derby rims they measure 60mm tread width and 70mm casing width. They fit in my Jones Ti Spaceframe with plenty of clearance.

    Trying to decide if I should ride them or wait for the Vee Trax Fatty. I just heard they will be released in the next week or two, and should be wider and lighter than the Trailblazer.
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    Please.. Please.. Give 'er a try
    I would love to hear your what you think about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    I'm actually hoping the Trailblazer will work well on low speed chunk at lower pressures.
    I will have to be pretty aware of BB height. We will see...
    Well, let us know. I'm in a position where I really can't afford loss of bb height. Low pressure will drop it even further.

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    It's kind of funny that this is like the original French system of fitting tires, where you had a set outside <em>tire</em> diameter (600, 650, or 700mm) and several width designations (A, B, and C). Going to a fatter tire meant using a smaller rim, and your bottom bracket height and gearing would stay the same.

    Maybe we should start calling these 29E tires...

  20. #20
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    desperate attempt to make 29'ers relevant since 27.5 is in town and will surely own the entire market shortly....

    I kid I kid...now want some 650b+ but ditched my 29'er

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    Quote Originally Posted by Entrenador View Post
    What's the BB height of your Jones bike with these wheels on it?
    Thanks.
    I put that in another post, forget to mention it here. My EBB is set at around the 10:00 position, and the BB height is about 11.5". Sounds like it might be a bit low for chunk.

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    I am super excited about 27.5+ as it fills in one of the last gaps in choice for diameter/width (we now have 31x3, 29xanything you want up to 4.8", 27.5xanything up to 3" or so, etc) but honestly, they are not going to work that well on most 29" frames. Anything big enough to achieve the same diameter as a 29x2.3 or so is going to be too huge to fit in most frames, and a smaller tire (like the WTB) is going to cause a lot of people BB height/pedal strike problems, especially if run at low pressure where you're looking at 15+mm less BB height.

    But they are still awesome and I want some.

    -Walt

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    I'm planning on getting a 27.5 x 3.25 tire, once they actually exist. I'm going to put it on a 40mm Derby rim and see what it looks like. If it looks good I'm going to get a 27.5 wheelset for my Mukluk and try them out. If that goes well I might have a bike made that uses that tire. I hope that more than one tire company makes tires around that size.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    I'm planning on getting a 27.5 x 3.25 tire, once they actually exist. I'm going to put it on a 40mm Derby rim and see what it looks like. If it looks good I'm going to get a 27.5 wheelset for my Mukluk and try them out. If that goes well I might have a bike made that uses that tire. I hope that more than one tire company makes tires around that size.
    I am doing the same exact thing, although my frame is already done and waiting on the tires. The bike has a 73mm bb, 135 symmetrical rear, can fit 26x3.8, as shown in pics. I think a 27.5 with a 3.2 tire will be very similar in height to what I am currently running. Wheelset is being built as we speak, tires in a couple weeks I hope.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5+ Tires-photo-9.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-6.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-1.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-3.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-5.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    I am doing the same exact thing, although my frame is already done and waiting on the tires. The bike has a 73mm bb, 135 symmetrical rear, can fit 26x3.8, as shown in pics. I think a 27.5 with a 3.2 tire will be very similar in height to what I am currently running. Wheelset is being built as we speak, tires in a couple weeks I hope.
    Cool bike. Did you have it built with these new 27.5+ tires in mind?

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    That thing is awesome. How much clearance is there for the crankarms?

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    I am doing the same exact thing, although my frame is already done and waiting on the tires. The bike has a 73mm bb, 135 symmetrical rear, can fit 26x3.8, as shown in pics. I think a 27.5 with a 3.2 tire will be very similar in height to what I am currently running. Wheelset is being built as we speak, tires in a couple weeks I hope.
    Thanks for posting that. Very inspirational. And very cool. I'm glad Walt is excited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    That thing is awesome. How much clearance is there for the crankarms?

    -Walt
    Thanks. Dave Wiseman is a newer builder, but was a pro, amazing to work with. Very complicated build, had it made to run fat 26, 27.5 + or even 29+. Cranks have enough clearance, crank protectors take up a little space, still room to spare
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5+ Tires-image.jpg  

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    Well, I'd probably want more room, but as long as they don't rub when you're on the gas, it's good to go!

    Freaking sweet bike.

    I'm doing a fattie (that will do 27.5+ as well) for my wife right now on an 83mm shell which allows a bit more wiggle room to fit bigger (ie ~110mm) tires and a derailleur/gears. No way is she going to ride a fat singlespeed! Now that there are more crank options in 83mm popping up, I'm a pretty big fan of that width as a compromise as it allows quite a bit shorter stays and some more flexibility with tires. Most people don't notice the Q factor difference between 73/83, but 100mm is often a bit much.

    Anyway, I digress. Love the red hammertone powdercoat, too!
    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Well, I'd probably want more room, but as long as they don't rub when you're on the gas, it's good to go!

    Freaking sweet bike.

    I'm doing a fattie (that will do 27.5+ as well) for my wife right now on an 83mm shell which allows a bit more wiggle room to fit bigger (ie ~110mm) tires and a derailleur/gears. No way is she going to ride a fat singlespeed! Now that there are more crank options in 83mm popping up, I'm a pretty big fan of that width as a compromise as it allows quite a bit shorter stays and some more flexibility with tires. Most people don't notice the Q factor difference between 73/83, but 100mm is often a bit much.

    Anyway, I digress. Love the red hammertone powdercoat, too!
    -Walt
    I have a couple hundred miles on it, always on the gas and not a rub. Wet paint, no powdercoat, 7 coats to get that look. Probably a pound of paint, but soo cool in the sun.

    Post a pic of your wife's bike when you are done, I have always loved your frames.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    Thanks. Dave Wiseman is a newer builder, but was a pro, amazing to work with. Very complicated build, had it made to run fat 26, 27.5 + or even 29+. Cranks have enough clearance, crank protectors take up a little space, still room to spare
    Any pics with 29+ in there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Any pics with 29+ in there?
    I don't have any pics. I put a Rabbit Hole with a Knard in, with the paragon set almost all the way back and it fit well. I will never run one though, I don't like the height of a 29+, that's why I want a 27.5+.
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    I'm with you on this one. I want to build a 27.5+ too.

    Curious -anyone know if the WTB 2.8" tire will fit a Rockshox Revelation or Fox Float 27.5" fork? Or, is it limited to a 29er fork retrofit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    I don't have any pics. I put a Rabbit Hole with a Knard in, with the paragon set almost all the way back and it fit well. I will never run one though, I don't like the height of a 29+, that's why I want a 27.5+.
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    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
    same applies to 26+ tires however most will fit 650b bikes but require 26" rims

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    I'm suspecting the same. An article describes the outer diameter as 28.6" with 45mm wide rims. I'd like to put them on 40mm wide rims, so the outer diameter would be about the same. At 28.6", I'm pretty sure the wheel/tire combo will not fit a 27.5" Fox Float that I have on a bike right now. And if the combo is limited to 29er forks and frames, then its slightly smaller size will be harder to take advantage of in terms of head tube height (an area of focus for shorter riders) and shorter chain stays.

    Perhaps these tires can be made a little smaller in outer diameter with a narrower rim, but then the tire pressure will have to be kept higher to prevent the tire from rolling and squirming, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
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    How about posting some diameters so we can see what will fit on our bikes?

    I'm thinking a mid fat (less than 4") on a 27.5 might be a nice summer tire compliment to a fat bike 26 x 4".

    Anyone have a source for less expensive rims 40-50mm, ie not Surly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How about posting some diameters so we can see what will fit on our bikes?

    I'm thinking a mid fat (less than 4") on a 27.5 might be a nice summer tire compliment to a fat bike 26 x 4".

    Anyone have a source for less expensive rims 40-50mm, ie not Surly?
    I have the Nextie 40mm carbon rims. They look really well made. Came in at 420g a piece. In the process of building them up.

    Carbon Fiber 650B/27.5" MTB Rim 40mm width Clincher Hookless Tubeless Compatible Mountain Bike [NXT650BH01]
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
    It's the same thing with 29+, fits only a few forks, just barely. It really is a better fit with existing 29er's if you can get over a cm BB drop ( no big deal for me). The guys over there seemed to whine about it and moved it here. 650B+ is also a good fit for fatbikes for non snow/sand riding.

    I'm hoping we will see a few production 650B+ bikes and, of course, the inevitable customs should start trickling out. That's what I' going to do, have my custom filet brazed 29er hardtail's seat stays replaced to give me room for 3.2" 650B+ tires. ( chainstays and fork will fit already)

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?

    my new XTC 27.5 just has enough mud clearance with 2.3 on it to get packed with mud and leaves and still spin somewhat. not gonna be able to fit any 650b+ therefore I hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    my new XTC 27.5 just has enough mud clearance with 2.3 on it to get packed with mud and leaves and still spin somewhat. not gonna be able to fit any 650b+ therefore I hate
    Use a wide 26" rim like this:Velocity Wheels with as large of a tire that will work on your frame, even a 2.2/.3 will do, add 15psi and ride. Although the trailblazers are labeled 27.5 it only refers to the bead diameter and is sized to fit existing 29" frames. You can get nearly the same effect going down a bead size for your bike.

    The key to + I have found has more to do with rim width than the tire itself. YMMV.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
    I'm guessing small niche. The WTB tire weighs as much as the wide, burly, 29er tires, has narrower tread, will have fitment issues with lots of frames, and your bb will drop. The only big advantage is cush/comfort, which is certainly appealing, but wide 29er tires with tall casings, like Maxxis tires, are already pretty cushy. Some folks say you will get some float in snow and sand with the Trailblazer, but anyone who rides fat bikes will tell you this tire will only bring marginal gains on soft surfaces, at least over any distance. I certainly wouldn't expect this tire to be great for snow or sand.

    If you have a 29er with wider stays, and already have a wideish 27.5 wheel set, then why not give the tire a shot? I would if I were in that situation. However, I don't have the money to spend on a new wheelset that I can only use with one tire.

    The wider 27.5+ tires coming out are only going to work in fat bikes. Maybe 29+ bikes? Panaracer and Vee must be banking on fat bikers using those tires to build summer wheels. Or there are bikes in the works that will be designed around these tires? I agree with another poster: the most appealing 27.5 plus tires would be 3.0-3.5 wide and have a bike that is geo specific for trail riding.
    Last edited by Slow Danger; 09-24-2014 at 11:54 AM.

  44. #44
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    This sounds familar:

    <em>I'm guessing small niche. The WTB Nano tire weighs as much as the wide, burly, 26" tires, has narrower tread, will have fitment issues with lots of frames, and your bb will rise. The only big advantage is cush/comfort, which is certainly appealing, but wide 26" tires with tall casings, like the Gazza, are already pretty cushy.</em>

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    This sounds familar:

    <em>I'm guessing small niche. The WTB Nano tire weighs as much as the wide, burly, 26" tires, has narrower tread, will have fitment issues with lots of frames, and your bb will rise. The only big advantage is cush/comfort, which is certainly appealing, but wide 26" tires with tall casings, like the Gazza, are already pretty cushy.</em>
    The concept of 27.5+ has great potential. And I'm hoping/looking forward to bikes being designed around 3.0-3.5 wide tires. Can't wait. But the WTB seems like a niche tire to me. I guess there could be a lot of folks out there who already have both wheels and a frame that can use this tire though. WTB was way out ahead on 29ers. The Trailblazer is just a wide 27.5 tire...not a new bike platform.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    But the WTB seems like a niche tire to me.
    Sure it is. Like the Nano before it, it's a tire to test the waters and they had to make some compromises to increase the odds of retrofit-ability.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    WTB was way out ahead on 29ers. The Trailblazer is just a wide 27.5 tire...not a new bike platform.
    They weren't that far ahead. There were several big wheel 700c bikes and tires - the Bianchi Project 7, Diamond Back Overdrive, Bruce Gordon Rock N' Road for example. For tires you had the much knobbier Rock N' Road / Hakkapellita, Panaracer Smoke 700c, and the big 45mm cross tires on the Bianchi. You could just as well say the Nano was just a wide cyclocross tire, not a new bike platform.

    Heck, why not just say the Endo was just a wide Gazza? I think there's a problem of perspective here, in that because the 650+ tire fits in between other sizes it's not "new".

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Sure it is. Like the Nano before it, it's a tire to test the waters and they had to make some compromises to increase the odds of retrofit-ability.
    Well, I guess the difference is that in today's bike industry adaptation is much faster. You are reaching back 15 years or better to make a point. In fact, Vee tires 27.5x3.25 was announced by Bike's Direct before I even heard of the WTB tire. Panaracer was announced within a month of the first public news of the WTB. Bikes are likely already on the way. The public doesn't need to be "sold" on the concept of new wheel sizes these days. They just like to argue about which is best. I'm not trying to poop in WTB's punch or anything. It's a cool idea that I'm sure some people will love. And if I didn't have to spend a ton of money to make the Trailblazer work, I'd be buying one. I'm not resistant to new ideas. I'm waiting for the next logical step. If WTB moves the needle some, great.

  49. #49
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    please no pooping in the punch bowl..

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Well, I guess the difference is that in today's bike industry adaptation is much faster. You are reaching back 15 years or better to make a point. In fact, Vee tires 27.5x3.25 was announced by Bike's Direct before I even heard of the WTB tire. Panaracer was announced within a month of the first public news of the WTB. Bikes are likely already on the way. The public doesn't need to be "sold" on the concept of new wheel sizes these days. They just like to argue about which is best. I'm not trying to poop in WTB's punch or anything. It's a cool idea that I'm sure some people will love. And if I didn't have to spend a ton of money to make the Trailblazer work, I'd be buying one. I'm not resistant to new ideas. I'm waiting for the next logical step. If WTB moves the needle some, great.
    Some of your reasoning is correct, but your timeline is way off. Panaracer announced their 650B+ this month at Interbike best I can tell. The WTB tire was first shown at Sea Otter in early April on the Rocky Mountain Sherpa prototype. The Trax Fatty was first shown at the Taipei show in early March, over 6 months ago.

    But yes, adaptation happens much faster these days, and companies as well as riders are much more likely and quicker to try new things like these plus sized tires. Obviously, BD has a bike in the works for the 650b+ tire size, and I'm sure there are more in development as we speak. I also think it will be a great option for a summer wheelset for fatbikes.

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