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Thread: 27.5+ Tires

  1. #1
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    27.5+ Tires



    Just starting a thread to discuss the new B+ tire format that is starting to gather steam.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    interesting indeed.

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    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    My pair of WTB Trailblazers landed last week. Mounted to 40mm Derby rims they measure 60mm tread width and 70mm casing width. They fit in my Jones Ti Spaceframe with plenty of clearance.

    Trying to decide if I should ride them or wait for the Vee Trax Fatty. I just heard they will be released in the next week or two, and should be wider and lighter than the Trailblazer.
    27.5+ Tires-trailblazer-3.jpg27.5+ Tires-trailblazer-1.jpg27.5+ Tires-jones-trailblazer-3.jpg27.5+ Tires-jones-trailblazer-1.jpg

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    For those looking in on 27.5+ for the first time, Panaracer and Vee both have tires coming in this size as well.

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    what is the name of the 27.5+ Panaracer tire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    what is the name of the 27.5+ Panaracer tire?
    Fat B Nimble, same as their fat bike and 29+ tire. They announced the 27.5+ and 29+ versions at Interbike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    what is the name of the 27.5+ Panaracer tire?
    FatBnimble. Panaracer is making that tire in a 29x3 and a 27.5x3.

    Edit: Bikeny beat me to the board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    FatBnimble. Panaracer is making that tire in a 29x3 and a 27.5x3.

    Edit: Bikeny beat me to the board.
    which makes you slow like tom brady

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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    which makes you slow like tom brady
    Do I get his wife too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Do I get his wife too?
    for a nominal fee sure.

  12. #12
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    cool post on WTB's FB page. Two bikes at IB with Trailblazers. One from 44 bikes and the other a Jones Spaceframe. WTB - Rad Bikes of Interbike | WTB

    On the Jones, with an eccentric BB he just rotated the BB to the top and eliminated most of the 6-10 mm BB drop that results from using the 650B/Trailblazer wheel. Pretty smart!

    mike

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    Now, I'm going to have to hold onto my 650 wheelset for awhile!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    My pair of WTB Trailblazers landed last week. Mounted to 40mm Derby rims they measure 60mm tread width and 70mm casing width. They fit in my Jones Ti Spaceframe with plenty of clearance.
    What's the BB height of your Jones bike with these wheels on it?
    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    On the Jones, with an eccentric BB he just rotated the BB to the top and eliminated most of the 6-10 mm BB drop that results from using the 650B/Trailblazer wheel. Pretty smart!
    The ebb helps, but only if you aren't already riding with it set for highest position, especially since the Jones already has a low bb height. Some bikes are on the verge of being too low for certain types of riding as it is. This tire may not suit chunkier riding where riders rely on clearance, but that type of riding is not what the Trailblazer designed for so personal tastes and terrain are likely to play a bigger factor than an ebb on whether this tire will work for riders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    The ebb helps, but only if you aren't already riding with it set for highest position, especially since the Jones already has a low bb height. Some bikes are on the verge of being too low for certain types of riding as it is. This tire may not suit chunkier riding where riders rely on clearance, but that type of riding is not what the Trailblazer designed for so personal tastes and terrain are likely to play a bigger factor than an ebb on whether this tire will work for riders.
    I'm actually hoping the Trailblazer will work well on low speed chunk at lower pressures.
    I will have to be pretty aware of BB height. We will see...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    My pair of WTB Trailblazers landed last week. Mounted to 40mm Derby rims they measure 60mm tread width and 70mm casing width. They fit in my Jones Ti Spaceframe with plenty of clearance.

    Trying to decide if I should ride them or wait for the Vee Trax Fatty. I just heard they will be released in the next week or two, and should be wider and lighter than the Trailblazer.
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    Please.. Please.. Give 'er a try
    I would love to hear your what you think about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    I'm actually hoping the Trailblazer will work well on low speed chunk at lower pressures.
    I will have to be pretty aware of BB height. We will see...
    Well, let us know. I'm in a position where I really can't afford loss of bb height. Low pressure will drop it even further.

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    It's kind of funny that this is like the original French system of fitting tires, where you had a set outside <em>tire</em> diameter (600, 650, or 700mm) and several width designations (A, B, and C). Going to a fatter tire meant using a smaller rim, and your bottom bracket height and gearing would stay the same.

    Maybe we should start calling these 29E tires...

  20. #20
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    desperate attempt to make 29'ers relevant since 27.5 is in town and will surely own the entire market shortly....

    I kid I kid...now want some 650b+ but ditched my 29'er

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    Quote Originally Posted by Entrenador View Post
    What's the BB height of your Jones bike with these wheels on it?
    Thanks.
    I put that in another post, forget to mention it here. My EBB is set at around the 10:00 position, and the BB height is about 11.5". Sounds like it might be a bit low for chunk.

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    I am super excited about 27.5+ as it fills in one of the last gaps in choice for diameter/width (we now have 31x3, 29xanything you want up to 4.8", 27.5xanything up to 3" or so, etc) but honestly, they are not going to work that well on most 29" frames. Anything big enough to achieve the same diameter as a 29x2.3 or so is going to be too huge to fit in most frames, and a smaller tire (like the WTB) is going to cause a lot of people BB height/pedal strike problems, especially if run at low pressure where you're looking at 15+mm less BB height.

    But they are still awesome and I want some.

    -Walt

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    I'm planning on getting a 27.5 x 3.25 tire, once they actually exist. I'm going to put it on a 40mm Derby rim and see what it looks like. If it looks good I'm going to get a 27.5 wheelset for my Mukluk and try them out. If that goes well I might have a bike made that uses that tire. I hope that more than one tire company makes tires around that size.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    I'm planning on getting a 27.5 x 3.25 tire, once they actually exist. I'm going to put it on a 40mm Derby rim and see what it looks like. If it looks good I'm going to get a 27.5 wheelset for my Mukluk and try them out. If that goes well I might have a bike made that uses that tire. I hope that more than one tire company makes tires around that size.
    I am doing the same exact thing, although my frame is already done and waiting on the tires. The bike has a 73mm bb, 135 symmetrical rear, can fit 26x3.8, as shown in pics. I think a 27.5 with a 3.2 tire will be very similar in height to what I am currently running. Wheelset is being built as we speak, tires in a couple weeks I hope.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5+ Tires-photo-9.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-6.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-1.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-3.jpg  

    27.5+ Tires-photo-5.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    I am doing the same exact thing, although my frame is already done and waiting on the tires. The bike has a 73mm bb, 135 symmetrical rear, can fit 26x3.8, as shown in pics. I think a 27.5 with a 3.2 tire will be very similar in height to what I am currently running. Wheelset is being built as we speak, tires in a couple weeks I hope.
    Cool bike. Did you have it built with these new 27.5+ tires in mind?

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    That thing is awesome. How much clearance is there for the crankarms?

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    I am doing the same exact thing, although my frame is already done and waiting on the tires. The bike has a 73mm bb, 135 symmetrical rear, can fit 26x3.8, as shown in pics. I think a 27.5 with a 3.2 tire will be very similar in height to what I am currently running. Wheelset is being built as we speak, tires in a couple weeks I hope.
    Thanks for posting that. Very inspirational. And very cool. I'm glad Walt is excited.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    That thing is awesome. How much clearance is there for the crankarms?

    -Walt
    Thanks. Dave Wiseman is a newer builder, but was a pro, amazing to work with. Very complicated build, had it made to run fat 26, 27.5 + or even 29+. Cranks have enough clearance, crank protectors take up a little space, still room to spare
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5+ Tires-image.jpg  

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    Well, I'd probably want more room, but as long as they don't rub when you're on the gas, it's good to go!

    Freaking sweet bike.

    I'm doing a fattie (that will do 27.5+ as well) for my wife right now on an 83mm shell which allows a bit more wiggle room to fit bigger (ie ~110mm) tires and a derailleur/gears. No way is she going to ride a fat singlespeed! Now that there are more crank options in 83mm popping up, I'm a pretty big fan of that width as a compromise as it allows quite a bit shorter stays and some more flexibility with tires. Most people don't notice the Q factor difference between 73/83, but 100mm is often a bit much.

    Anyway, I digress. Love the red hammertone powdercoat, too!
    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Well, I'd probably want more room, but as long as they don't rub when you're on the gas, it's good to go!

    Freaking sweet bike.

    I'm doing a fattie (that will do 27.5+ as well) for my wife right now on an 83mm shell which allows a bit more wiggle room to fit bigger (ie ~110mm) tires and a derailleur/gears. No way is she going to ride a fat singlespeed! Now that there are more crank options in 83mm popping up, I'm a pretty big fan of that width as a compromise as it allows quite a bit shorter stays and some more flexibility with tires. Most people don't notice the Q factor difference between 73/83, but 100mm is often a bit much.

    Anyway, I digress. Love the red hammertone powdercoat, too!
    -Walt
    I have a couple hundred miles on it, always on the gas and not a rub. Wet paint, no powdercoat, 7 coats to get that look. Probably a pound of paint, but soo cool in the sun.

    Post a pic of your wife's bike when you are done, I have always loved your frames.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    Thanks. Dave Wiseman is a newer builder, but was a pro, amazing to work with. Very complicated build, had it made to run fat 26, 27.5 + or even 29+. Cranks have enough clearance, crank protectors take up a little space, still room to spare
    Any pics with 29+ in there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Any pics with 29+ in there?
    I don't have any pics. I put a Rabbit Hole with a Knard in, with the paragon set almost all the way back and it fit well. I will never run one though, I don't like the height of a 29+, that's why I want a 27.5+.
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    I'm with you on this one. I want to build a 27.5+ too.

    Curious -anyone know if the WTB 2.8" tire will fit a Rockshox Revelation or Fox Float 27.5" fork? Or, is it limited to a 29er fork retrofit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    I don't have any pics. I put a Rabbit Hole with a Knard in, with the paragon set almost all the way back and it fit well. I will never run one though, I don't like the height of a 29+, that's why I want a 27.5+.
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    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
    same applies to 26+ tires however most will fit 650b bikes but require 26" rims

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    I'm suspecting the same. An article describes the outer diameter as 28.6" with 45mm wide rims. I'd like to put them on 40mm wide rims, so the outer diameter would be about the same. At 28.6", I'm pretty sure the wheel/tire combo will not fit a 27.5" Fox Float that I have on a bike right now. And if the combo is limited to 29er forks and frames, then its slightly smaller size will be harder to take advantage of in terms of head tube height (an area of focus for shorter riders) and shorter chain stays.

    Perhaps these tires can be made a little smaller in outer diameter with a narrower rim, but then the tire pressure will have to be kept higher to prevent the tire from rolling and squirming, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
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    How about posting some diameters so we can see what will fit on our bikes?

    I'm thinking a mid fat (less than 4") on a 27.5 might be a nice summer tire compliment to a fat bike 26 x 4".

    Anyone have a source for less expensive rims 40-50mm, ie not Surly?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How about posting some diameters so we can see what will fit on our bikes?

    I'm thinking a mid fat (less than 4") on a 27.5 might be a nice summer tire compliment to a fat bike 26 x 4".

    Anyone have a source for less expensive rims 40-50mm, ie not Surly?
    I have the Nextie 40mm carbon rims. They look really well made. Came in at 420g a piece. In the process of building them up.

    Carbon Fiber 650B/27.5" MTB Rim 40mm width Clincher Hookless Tubeless Compatible Mountain Bike [NXT650BH01]
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
    It's the same thing with 29+, fits only a few forks, just barely. It really is a better fit with existing 29er's if you can get over a cm BB drop ( no big deal for me). The guys over there seemed to whine about it and moved it here. 650B+ is also a good fit for fatbikes for non snow/sand riding.

    I'm hoping we will see a few production 650B+ bikes and, of course, the inevitable customs should start trickling out. That's what I' going to do, have my custom filet brazed 29er hardtail's seat stays replaced to give me room for 3.2" 650B+ tires. ( chainstays and fork will fit already)

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    I'm intrigued by 27.5+ - but I find it interesting that it probably won't clear all that many existing 650b frames........and then it will fit in 29ers but most of those will have chainstays (i.e. longer than maybe necessary) that aren't really optimal in terms of length....

    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?

    my new XTC 27.5 just has enough mud clearance with 2.3 on it to get packed with mud and leaves and still spin somewhat. not gonna be able to fit any 650b+ therefore I hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    my new XTC 27.5 just has enough mud clearance with 2.3 on it to get packed with mud and leaves and still spin somewhat. not gonna be able to fit any 650b+ therefore I hate
    Use a wide 26" rim like this:Velocity Wheels with as large of a tire that will work on your frame, even a 2.2/.3 will do, add 15psi and ride. Although the trailblazers are labeled 27.5 it only refers to the bead diameter and is sized to fit existing 29" frames. You can get nearly the same effect going down a bead size for your bike.

    The key to + I have found has more to do with rim width than the tire itself. YMMV.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    Thoughts on that guys? Will it ever gain any traction other than a very small niche?
    I'm guessing small niche. The WTB tire weighs as much as the wide, burly, 29er tires, has narrower tread, will have fitment issues with lots of frames, and your bb will drop. The only big advantage is cush/comfort, which is certainly appealing, but wide 29er tires with tall casings, like Maxxis tires, are already pretty cushy. Some folks say you will get some float in snow and sand with the Trailblazer, but anyone who rides fat bikes will tell you this tire will only bring marginal gains on soft surfaces, at least over any distance. I certainly wouldn't expect this tire to be great for snow or sand.

    If you have a 29er with wider stays, and already have a wideish 27.5 wheel set, then why not give the tire a shot? I would if I were in that situation. However, I don't have the money to spend on a new wheelset that I can only use with one tire.

    The wider 27.5+ tires coming out are only going to work in fat bikes. Maybe 29+ bikes? Panaracer and Vee must be banking on fat bikers using those tires to build summer wheels. Or there are bikes in the works that will be designed around these tires? I agree with another poster: the most appealing 27.5 plus tires would be 3.0-3.5 wide and have a bike that is geo specific for trail riding.
    Last edited by Slow Danger; 09-24-2014 at 11:54 AM.

  44. #44
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    This sounds familar:

    <em>I'm guessing small niche. The WTB Nano tire weighs as much as the wide, burly, 26" tires, has narrower tread, will have fitment issues with lots of frames, and your bb will rise. The only big advantage is cush/comfort, which is certainly appealing, but wide 26" tires with tall casings, like the Gazza, are already pretty cushy.</em>

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    This sounds familar:

    <em>I'm guessing small niche. The WTB Nano tire weighs as much as the wide, burly, 26" tires, has narrower tread, will have fitment issues with lots of frames, and your bb will rise. The only big advantage is cush/comfort, which is certainly appealing, but wide 26" tires with tall casings, like the Gazza, are already pretty cushy.</em>
    The concept of 27.5+ has great potential. And I'm hoping/looking forward to bikes being designed around 3.0-3.5 wide tires. Can't wait. But the WTB seems like a niche tire to me. I guess there could be a lot of folks out there who already have both wheels and a frame that can use this tire though. WTB was way out ahead on 29ers. The Trailblazer is just a wide 27.5 tire...not a new bike platform.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    But the WTB seems like a niche tire to me.
    Sure it is. Like the Nano before it, it's a tire to test the waters and they had to make some compromises to increase the odds of retrofit-ability.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    WTB was way out ahead on 29ers. The Trailblazer is just a wide 27.5 tire...not a new bike platform.
    They weren't that far ahead. There were several big wheel 700c bikes and tires - the Bianchi Project 7, Diamond Back Overdrive, Bruce Gordon Rock N' Road for example. For tires you had the much knobbier Rock N' Road / Hakkapellita, Panaracer Smoke 700c, and the big 45mm cross tires on the Bianchi. You could just as well say the Nano was just a wide cyclocross tire, not a new bike platform.

    Heck, why not just say the Endo was just a wide Gazza? I think there's a problem of perspective here, in that because the 650+ tire fits in between other sizes it's not "new".

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Sure it is. Like the Nano before it, it's a tire to test the waters and they had to make some compromises to increase the odds of retrofit-ability.
    Well, I guess the difference is that in today's bike industry adaptation is much faster. You are reaching back 15 years or better to make a point. In fact, Vee tires 27.5x3.25 was announced by Bike's Direct before I even heard of the WTB tire. Panaracer was announced within a month of the first public news of the WTB. Bikes are likely already on the way. The public doesn't need to be "sold" on the concept of new wheel sizes these days. They just like to argue about which is best. I'm not trying to poop in WTB's punch or anything. It's a cool idea that I'm sure some people will love. And if I didn't have to spend a ton of money to make the Trailblazer work, I'd be buying one. I'm not resistant to new ideas. I'm waiting for the next logical step. If WTB moves the needle some, great.

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    please no pooping in the punch bowl..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Well, I guess the difference is that in today's bike industry adaptation is much faster. You are reaching back 15 years or better to make a point. In fact, Vee tires 27.5x3.25 was announced by Bike's Direct before I even heard of the WTB tire. Panaracer was announced within a month of the first public news of the WTB. Bikes are likely already on the way. The public doesn't need to be "sold" on the concept of new wheel sizes these days. They just like to argue about which is best. I'm not trying to poop in WTB's punch or anything. It's a cool idea that I'm sure some people will love. And if I didn't have to spend a ton of money to make the Trailblazer work, I'd be buying one. I'm not resistant to new ideas. I'm waiting for the next logical step. If WTB moves the needle some, great.
    Some of your reasoning is correct, but your timeline is way off. Panaracer announced their 650B+ this month at Interbike best I can tell. The WTB tire was first shown at Sea Otter in early April on the Rocky Mountain Sherpa prototype. The Trax Fatty was first shown at the Taipei show in early March, over 6 months ago.

    But yes, adaptation happens much faster these days, and companies as well as riders are much more likely and quicker to try new things like these plus sized tires. Obviously, BD has a bike in the works for the 650b+ tire size, and I'm sure there are more in development as we speak. I also think it will be a great option for a summer wheelset for fatbikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    please no pooping in the punch bowl..
    Plenty of floaters already.

    Bikeny, you're right I was pretty off on the Panaracer. So it goes Trax Fatty in March. WTB in April. Panaracer in September. Still an eye blink compared to old development times.

    Folks: Somebody asked opinions on whether the WTB represented a small niche. I gave a fairly non-controversial opinion. Ride what makes you happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    You are reaching back 15 years or better to make a point.
    Well, since that's when the last "This new wheel size roolz/sux" debate happened I guess I didn't have a choice to reach back to the previous century. I didn't pay attention much when the Pacenti tires came out so maybe I could have come up with something acceptably recent for you. But I'm sure there was plenty of eye rolling at that size too.

    In fact, Vee tires 27.5x3.25 was announced by Bike's Direct before I even heard of the WTB tire. Panaracer was announced within a month of the first public news of the WTB. Bikes are likely already on the way.
    That still doesn't change the fact that the WTB design has some obvious compromises to achieve greater adoption.

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    Ti 29er 650+

    27.5+ Tires-ke-02829530m-2-.jpg27.5+ Tires-ke-02829530m.jpg

    I have been pretty excited on this tire/wheel size since I heard about in January. Designed a hardtail that I can ride as my 29er ss/geared bike and have the option to slap the 650+ wheelset in for fun. I have the new WTB tires and hubs just waiting on rims to build up. Looking at 45mm wide options and currently only see the carbon options. Hoping the WTB rims are out soon or Velocity comes out with a 27.5 dually. Widened the chainstay area as wheel as the seat stays and am pretty confident that 3.0 or even 3.2s will fit in there fine. Will build it up with my regular 29er wheel set first then figure out the rest.
    Roy

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    Looks fantastic! And I thought I was jumping the gun to think of frames around which these tires will fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomadpop View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have been pretty excited on this tire/wheel size since I heard about in January. Designed a hardtail that I can ride as my 29er ss/geared bike and have the option to slap the 650+ wheelset in for fun. I have the new WTB tires and hubs just waiting on rims to build up. Looking at 45mm wide options and currently only see the carbon options. Hoping the WTB rims are out soon or Velocity comes out with a 27.5 dually. Widened the chainstay area as wheel as the seat stays and am pretty confident that 3.0 or even 3.2s will fit in there fine. Will build it up with my regular 29er wheel set first then figure out the rest.
    Roy
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    I think the 650b+ size will be a lot of fun, I guess I need to build up some wheels and see if my thoughts are correct. Anyone have a spare set of derby rims laying around that they do not need?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomadpop
    Hoping the WTB rims are out soon or Velocity comes out with a 27.5 dually
    Roy
    I heard early Nov for the WTB rims and $149 a pop!

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    It's a waiting game now:

    27.5+ Tires-11nine-full-suspension-fat-bike-275-18%5B1%5D.jpg

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    is it @ a charging station??

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    Well I finally got the Trailblazer setup using Derby rims at 35mm inside width.
    it wasn't even close shoving it into the Niner Air9 !!
    the chain stays have full contact with the tire..
    carcass is pretty big. I measured it out to 68mm wide. While that is only 3mm wider then a Schwalbe Rock Razor on the same rim the extra profile height gives quite a bit more volume.. I am measuring and trying the tire with 40+psi to account for tire growth which I'm sure this tire will have a lot of.

    As a side note, it fits in a 27.5 Pike.. maybe 3mm-4mm clearance to the center of the arch
    I'm going to run it on the front of my 27.5 Solo for awhile

    Also.. Trailblazer fits with much better clearance in a 27.5 Fox 34..

    I will try this wheel for fit in a Solo, Tallboy, Pivot LES, Gnarvester, etc. when I can.......


    update:

    I figured what the heck.......
    I stuck a Derby rim setup with the Trailblazer in the back of my Santa Cruz SOLO
    it is a tight fit............
    absolutely no mud clearence, maybe 3mm space across the chain stay yoke.
    Far from optimal. But, it does go in there.
    this is not the intended type of bike I want the B+ tire for.

    sweet I'm goin' riding

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    I would like to see if that vee tire will fit in my x-fusion trace 29'er fork.I really like the high volume tires on my fatty and these new 27+ tires might be a nice in between size.One thing for me is just the cushion from trail vibration.Takes longer for the hands to go numb.

  61. #61
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    This is just the info I've been looking for - thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    As a side note, it fits in a 27.5 Pike.. maybe 3mm-4mm clearance to the center of the arch
    I'm going to run it on the front of my 27.5 Solo for awhile

    Also.. Trailblazer fits with much better clearance in a 27.5 Fox 34.

    sweet I'm goin' riding
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    Quote Originally Posted by awai04 View Post
    This is just the info I've been looking for - thanks!
    So it doesn't hit the bottom of the crown under full compression?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    Well I finally got the Trailblazer setup using Derby rims at 35mm inside width.
    .....
    ....
    ..
    I will try this wheel for fit in a Solo, Tallboy, Pivot LES, Gnarvester, etc. when I can.......


    update:

    I figured what the heck.......
    I stuck a Derby rim setup with the Trailblazer in the back of my Santa Cruz SOLO
    @40psi. it is a tight fit............
    absolutely no mud clearence, maybe 3mm space across the chain stay yoke.
    Far from optimal. But, it does go in there.
    this is not the intended type of bike I want the B+ tire for.

    sweet I'm goin' riding
    update to da update:

    There is a lot of tire growth and/or stretch on this tire.
    I rode the bike last night with 18-20psi.. There was no rubbing and clearance actually looked pretty good on the back of my Solo.
    24hrs later, I added some sealant to the back wheel, aired it up to 40psi and, shook the wheel for a while trying to get the beads to seal up a little better. Now the tire contacts the center arch on the back of my Solo. Reducing pressure to 20psi and there is less then 2mm at the center.
    This thing is a marshmallow
    this is defiantly not going to work with out plenty of clearance around the outside of the tire
    there have been numerous complaints that the Trailblazer should be a little bigger in diameter
    I can see why it is a little less then 29" around.. spin this thing up and it grows
    much more of a little Fatbike tire then it is a big trailbike tire.

    For what I want it should work just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mxer View Post
    So it doesn't hit the bottom of the crown under full compression?
    I can't spin the tire fast enough to know for sure..... See my post above.
    the crown clearance would be my main concern there is a lot of arch clearance for the 27.5 Fox34
    there are things you can do to prevent full travel or just run a little more air to be o the safe side
    I've seen that the 29+ guys are using 29 Fox 32 forks with success. This will be the same game for the B+ bikes.
    But, no way is this thing working in the back without a lot of space in the center

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    Ordered Derby rims today. Once I have the wheels setup with the tires I will see what bikes/forks they will work in in my travels to the bike shops I visit for work. Pretty excited for this setup!
    Roy

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    650B+ Tires


    27.5 Fox34
    WTB Trialblazer
    Derby 40 rim



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    ^ gobs of clearance

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    Thanks for the pics and info flyinmike.Now to wait and see what forks the vee tire will fit.

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    If the 2.8 WTB tire barely fits the Pike, then the Vee tire probably will be too big, no? I thought about what suspension forks are going to fit a 3.25" tire and even the Fox looks like the fit will be tight. My eyeball estimate guesses that 3" width is going to be the upper limit of what works with the conventional forks. Anything wider is fat bike fork territory??

    As far as goes Fox vs. Rockshox, too bad about the Pike. Seems like the Pike is the favored amongst the enduro crowd right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by mxer View Post
    Thanks for the pics and info flyinmike.Now to wait and see what forks the vee tire will fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    is it @ a charging station??
    I think you have to plug the new Trax Fatty's in. Otherwise, you'd have just a wide 27.5 tire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awai04 View Post
    If the 2.8 WTB tire barely fits the Pike, then the Vee tire probably will be too big, no?
    27.5 Pike, not a chance ..maybe a 29'er Pike


    Quote Originally Posted by awai04 View Post
    I thought about what suspension forks are going to fit a 3.25" tire and even the Fox looks like the fit will be tight. My eyeball estimate guesses that 3" width is going to be the upper limit of what works with the conventional forks. Anything wider is fat bike fork territory??

    As far as goes Fox vs. Rockshox, too bad about the Pike. Seems like the Pike is the favored amongst the enduro crowd right now.
    A 29 Fox32 narrowly fits a Knard29+ or the 3.0 Vee29+ tires
    other then that the Bluto.. However, the Bluto introduces a whole new set of problems to overcome

    the bike I want to build needs rack mounts, possibly an 83mm BB, plenty of tire clearance, a 100mm suspension fork, a wide range drivetrain, lots of stand over clearance and, be under 25lbs.. if it could double as a Fatbike with 3.8 tires and wheels that would be cool. but, I really don't want the 100mm BB and Fatbike geometry

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    Sounds like you and I have similar frame designs in mind. Would be nice to go with a 27.5 fork size, which is advantageous with regard to weight and stiffness, theoretically at least. Not sure which (27.5 or 29) is better with regard to fork trail.

    As for BB width, can a hard tail frame allowing rear tire width up to 3.0" and with dedicated 1x drivetrain design get away with standard 73mm mtb bottom brackets? Would be nice if it does.

    I'd wish for 100-120mm travel, but on a 33-34mm stanchion fork, which makes for a less common combination(?); the 100mm Float 32 was kind of flexy (fore and aft) on my 29er.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    27.5 Pike, not a chance ..maybe a 29'er Pike



    A 29 Fox32 narrowly fits a Knard29+ or the 3.0 Vee29+ tires
    other then that the Bluto.. However, the Bluto introduces a whole new set of problems to overcome

    the bike I want to build needs rack mounts, possibly an 83mm BB, plenty of tire clearance, a 100mm suspension fork, a wide range drivetrain, lots of stand over clearance and, be under 25lbs.. if it could double as a Fatbike with 3.8 tires and wheels that would be cool. but, I really don't want the 100mm BB and Fatbike geometry
    It's not dirt in my apartment --it's Earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awai04 View Post
    Sounds like you and I have similar frame designs in mind. Would be nice to go with a 27.5 fork size, which is advantageous with regard to weight and stiffness, theoretically at least. Not sure which (27.5 or 29) is better with regard to fork trail.


    As for BB width, can a hard tail frame allowing rear tire width up to 3.0" and with dedicated 1x drivetrain design get away with standard 73mm mtb bottom brackets? Would be nice if it does.


    I'd wish for 100-120mm travel, but on a 33-34mm stanchion fork, which makes for a less common combination(?); the 100mm Float 32 was kind of flexy (fore and aft) on my 29er.

    it would take a Bluto to be able to run the Nate's in the dunes or winter and I would think the width of that crown would interfere with the downtube. Since the main duty would be bike packing and trail riding with lots of low speed chunk, chatter, mush, and sand. I would probably be ok with having the Bluto only for Fatbike sessions and a rigid fork would not be out of the question either.
    For me and B+.. I want a slacker lower geometry then what a Fatbike really provides. So, the complexity of trying to build a single bike to do to many things keeps ringing louder and louder. I know I want a suspension fork with B+. So, I think your right. That's where the search begins--> what fork will work the best
    A 29er Pike might be the best bet for something as large as the Vee tire. But my 27.5 Fox 34 might be big enough for the Maxxis or Panaracer tires. We won't really know until we have them in our hands. Meanwhile, I just wish the Trailblazer would have fit in the back of the 29'er I have (Niner). I understand why they don't. It's just that I want to give these things a proper try..

    update:

    I would like to add that the 3.0 x 29'er Vee Trax has measured out to 2.7
    So, the B+version may also measure out smaller then advertised. It should be fine in a 29'er fork

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    it would take a Bluto to be able to run the Nate's in the dunes or winter and I would think the width of that crown would interfere with the downtube. Since the main duty would be bike packing and trail riding with lots of low speed chunk, chatter, mush, and sand. I would probably be ok with having the Bluto only for Fatbike sessions and a rigid fork would not be out of the question either.
    For me and B+.. I want a slacker lower geometry then what a Fatbike really provides. So, the complexity of trying to build a single bike to do to many things keeps ringing louder and louder. I know I want a suspension fork with B+. So, I think your right. That's where the search begins--> what fork will work the best
    A 29er Pike might be the best bet for something as large as the Vee tire. But my 27.5 Fox 34 might be big enough for the Maxxis or Panaracer tires. We won't really know until we have them in our hands. Meanwhile, I just wish the Trailblazer would have fit in the back of the 29'er I have (Niner). I understand why they don't. It's just that I want to give these things a proper try..

    update:

    I would like to add that the 3.0 x 29'er Vee Trax has measured out to 2.7
    So, the B+version may also measure out smaller then advertised. It should be fine in a 29'er fork
    Couple of questions:

    Did I miss something, you mention Maxis 27.5+ tire???

    The Trax Fatty measures 2.7 on what rim? I've read it's a bit smaller than the Knard, but that's a huge difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    Couple of questions:


    The Trax Fatty measures 2.7 on what rim? I've read it's a bit smaller than the Knard, but that's a huge difference.
    on Dually's the 29+ 3.0" version measure out at 2.8" according to Whit Meriwether Cycles

    I've read one case on the 27.5 Trax Fatty measuring 72mm wide on Blunt 35's. I expect them t be much fatter on the new WTB or Stan's rims which are 50ish wide

    mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    The Trax Fatty measures 2.7 on what rim? I've read it's a bit smaller than the Knard, but that's a huge difference.
    VEE has a history of undersized tires, the 3.25" should measure 3" and make it a little bigger than the trailblazer, fine with me
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

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    Cool. Now by slacker geo, do you mean a HA lower than 68?? That's what I would have in mind for a trail-oriented 650b+ hard tail that still is manageable on XC rides.

    If the "3.25" " tires really measure out sub 3", then my guess is that they would physically fit within the standard 27.5" and/or 29" forks out there. Again, a 29er fork would mean 29er stack height, 29er fork weight, and (?) increased flex.

    The Bluto and fat bike are together, at least in my mind at the moment, a totally different beast. I know some riders can keep up with their mtb friends on fatties, but I think I'd be doing too much work to keep it up all day long, lol! One of the thoughts I have with 650b+ is to keep the bike light enough to spend similar energy riding with friends on FS trail bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    it would take a Bluto to be able to run the Nate's in the dunes or winter and I would think the width of that crown would interfere with the downtube. Since the main duty would be bike packing and trail riding with lots of low speed chunk, chatter, mush, and sand. I would probably be ok with having the Bluto only for Fatbike sessions and a rigid fork would not be out of the question either.
    For me and B+.. I want a slacker lower geometry then what a Fatbike really provides. So, the complexity of trying to build a single bike to do to many things keeps ringing louder and louder. I know I want a suspension fork with B+. So, I think your right. That's where the search begins--> what fork will work the best

    A 29er Pike might be the best bet for something as large as the Vee tire. But my 27.5 Fox 34 might be big enough for the Maxxis or Panaracer tires. We won't really know until we have them in our hands. Meanwhile, I just wish the Trailblazer would have fit in the back of the 29'er I have (Niner). I understand why they don't. It's just that I want to give these things a proper try..

    update:

    I would like to add that the 3.0 x 29'er Vee Trax has measured out to 2.7
    So, the B+version may also measure out smaller then advertised. It should be fine in a 29'er fork
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    Quote Originally Posted by awai04 View Post
    If the "3.25" " tires really measure out sub 3", then my guess is that they would physically fit within the standard 27.5" and/or 29" forks out there. .
    the only way the Vee 3.25 tire will be under 3" is on a narrow rim (30 mm ID and smaller) With 45 mm ID rims it will be more like 3.1" based on the bead to bead width of 190 mm plus. That's wider than a Knard.

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    It's certainly possible and I wouldn't want to buy all-new stuff and find out this is true. Then for what purpose you would want a 3.25" tire on a sub 30mm wide rim is yet another question!

    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    the only way the Vee 3.25 tire will be under 3" is on a narrow rim (30 mm ID and smaller) With 45 mm ID rims it will be more like 3.1" based on the bead to bead width of 190 mm plus. That's wider than a Knard.
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    The vee looks pretty big on the fatlab components ti bike.Better pics on there fb page.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I put that in another post, forget to mention it here. My EBB is set at around the 10:00 position, and the BB height is about 11.5". Sounds like it might be a bit low for chunk.
    11.5" unloaded on +sized tires (at appropriate psi for such tires) might be closer to 11" when on the bike. Keep us posted.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    VEE has a history of undersized tires, the 3.25" should measure 3" and make it a little bigger than the trailblazer, fine with me
    Does this help?

    27.5+ Tires-traxfatty.png

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Does this help?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    even if its 5 mm smaller... thats a big tire! Bigger than any old knard.

    also mounted on a 60mm inside rim. Which rim is that?

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Does this help?
    Thanks for the drawing, but it doesn't really help. Looks like a big tire, but it's mounted to a 60mm internal rim. Does that even exist in 27.5 size? It would be much more helpful shown on a 35mm or 40mm rim, as that's what's out there right now.

    Also, any idea of release date?

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    So how does the diameter of a 650b+ compare to a 24 x 4?

    I had been thinking of building a 3-4" bike based on 26" wheels, but it looks like the 26+ category is dead even if Surly has a tire... so now it looks like a fat bike with a sliding drop out could be a winner.

    I'm running a 26 x 4" Floater now on a Lurch, even slammed all the way forward I have 3/4" to spare, I didn't want a super tall tire like 29+, so this could work fine and make my Lurch more year round freindly.

    Is there a good 50mm rim in 27.5 that doesn't cost an arm and a teste?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So how does the diameter of a 650b+ compare to a 26 x 4?
    for sake of discussion a 26x3.8/4.0 equates to a standard 29er so a 650b+ will be shy of your intended target and result in BB drop.

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    sweet trax

    6.6" tall tis a lot of travel
    ...

  88. #88
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    Yeah, and the bike is designed for a 5" tire, so I'll be dragging, might have to get some shorter cranks and a skid plate

    So then maybe it would make more sense to swing toward a 29+, I wonder if the Bluto has enough clearance...

    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    for sake of discussion a 26x3.8/4.0 equates to a standard 29er so a 650b+ will be shy of your intended target and result in BB drop.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So how does the diameter of a 650b+ compare to a 24 x 4?

    I had been thinking of building a 3-4" bike based on 26" wheels, but it looks like the 26+ category is dead even if Surly has a tire... so now it looks like a fat bike with a sliding drop out could be a winner.

    I'm running a 26 x 4" Floater now on a Lurch, even slammed all the way forward I have 3/4" to spare, I didn't want a super tall tire like 29+, so this could work fine and make my Lurch more year round freindly.

    Is there a good 50mm rim in 27.5 that doesn't cost an arm and a teste?
    Do you mean 26 x 4?

    650B+ should be almost identical diameter wise to a 26x4ish setup. Both of those will be slightly smaller than a decent sized 29er setup. A 29+ setup will be quite a bit bigger than any of these.

    There are no 27.5 50mm rims out right now that I know of. Closest would the Derby and Nextie 40mm carbon offerings. In the future will be NoTubes Hugo and Velocity Dually, both aluminum.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    for sake of discussion a 26x3.8/4.0 equates to a standard 29er so a 650b+ will be shy of your intended target and result in BB drop.
    A 26x3.8/4.0 equates to a small 29er, like a 2.0/2.1, and 650B+ is almost the same. This stuff obviously depends a lot on the actual tire & rim combination.

    Also, for the fat tires, the effective diameter when riding will be even smaller because of tire compression at low pressure.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Does this help?
    it gives hope and amusement

    by the math this tire should have a 210mm bead to bead diameter making it just over 3" even on a velocity 35 and an overall diameter of 28.99"

    29er with 2.3 tires comes out to 29.09" diameter, basically no bottom bracket drop

    works for me!
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    650B+ should be almost identical diameter wise to a 26x4ish setup.
    .
    That's about what I was figuring, just didn't have the measurements.


    Hugo is pricey for a budget build, maybe Derby or Nextie, not a Velocity fan, but WTB is generally price friendly, so I suppose I'll wait and see how much they get for their rim.

    Does anyone have these in stock yet?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    it gives hope and amusement

    by the math this tire should have a 210mm bead to bead diameter making it just over 3" even on a velocity 35 and an overall diameter of 28.99"

    29er with 2.3 tires comes out to 29.09" diameter, basically no bottom bracket drop

    works for me!
    I'm not sure how you are calculating 210mm bead to bead, but I don't think that's right. In another thread, someone measured actual tires at 195mm bead to bead. This was pre-production, but I can't see them being that much different.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    That's about what I was figuring, just didn't have the measurements.


    Hugo is pricey for a budget build, maybe Derby or Nextie, not a Velocity fan, but WTB is generally price friendly, so I suppose I'll wait and see how much they get for their rim.

    Does anyone have these in stock yet?
    I forgot about the WTB rims! I don't think the're available yet either though. They will probably be the most budget friendly, discounting the Dually. Why is the Hugo pricey, it will be cheaper than the Derby or Nextie? And wider.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I'm not sure how you are calculating 210mm bead to bead, but I don't think that's right. In another thread, someone measured actual tires at 195mm bead to bead. This was pre-production, but I can't see them being that much different.
    86mm casing = (60mm rim + "X" bead to bead)/3.14 solve for "X"...... 210mm
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    86mm casing = (60mm rim + "X" bead to bead)/3.14 solve for "X"...... 210mm
    huh?

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I forgot about the WTB rims! I don't think the're available yet either though. They will probably be the most budget friendly, discounting the Dually. Why is the Hugo pricey, it will be cheaper than the Derby or Nextie? And wider.
    the prelim $$ estimate for the WTB Scraper was $149 retail. About the same as the Hugo. I guess big rims cost big money

  98. #98
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    does anyone have an ETA on any of the Rims - Dually, Hugo, Scraper?

  99. #99
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    For the WTB Trailblazer 2.8, on their rims, I have this:-

    The measurements are:
    Section width - 71.4mm
    Overall width - 59mm
    Tread depth (center) 3.8mm
    Tread depth (edge) 5.4 mm
    Diameter 726.9 mm

    Not much help.

  100. #100
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    Big rims shouldn't cost that much more, it's a scam, all of rims being about the same price, though some are clearly better quality and come from more reputable companies.

    I would not pay the same for a WTB rim if I can get a Hugo or rabbit hole for the same price, WTB is pricing themselves out of the game. It's kinda like Surly and their tires...

    So it looks like I'm gonna build some 650b+ mid fats for my fat bike, I do love building up new wheels, I'm like a kid at Christmas :-)

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